Hackers discover HD DVD and Blu-ray "processing key" -- all HD titles now exposed - Blu-ray Forum

Nismobeach · 02-13-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Those cooky kids over at the Doom9 forums hate themselves some DRM. Not more than two months after discovering a means to extract the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc "volume keys" to decrypt AACS DRM on individual films, we're now getting word that DRM hacker arnezami has found the "processing key" used to decrypt the DRM on all HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc films. Let's break this down for what it is: instead of needing individual keys for each and every high-definition film -- of which there are many -- the processing key can be used to unlock, decrypt, and backup every HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc film released so far. As arnezami points out, "nothing was actually hacked, cracked or even reverse engineered." All he had to do was keep an eye on his memory, watch what changed, and voila... the processing key appeared. So kick back and watch the trickle of HD titles hitting the torrents quickly turn into a flood (at ~20GB a pop, that's not an exaggeration) when the BackupHDDVD and BackupBluray utilities (or AnyDVD HD) are updated to reflect the new hack find.

engadget

I wonder what paidgeek's thoughts are about this?

dobyblue · 02-13-2007, 04:41 PM

This could explain the Fox titles being held back no?

blitz6speed · 02-13-2007, 04:45 PM

LOL, Kosty is trying to spin this as why Universal hasnt been releasing anything. Suuuuuure. They knew over a month ago this would have happened!

dialog_gvf · 02-13-2007, 04:51 PM

What they must have discovered is the vendor key. That is the key used to get the volume key from the media key block. Now that it is hacked, the AACS will have no choice but to revoke until the problem is solved. That means upcoming titles won't work without an update to the software.

I wonder what happens when rdjam realizes that throttling Blu-ray content releases is the only defense left?

Gary

dialog_gvf · 02-13-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

This could explain the Fox titles being held back no?

Sure, they may be waiting for the new AACS block before they can go into production. If this is a real issue for the studios, they can revoke the player. There's no need to hurt everyone by delaying titles indefinitely.

Gary

JTK · 02-13-2007, 04:56 PM

Maximum PC, March 2007 issue, page 14:

Quote:

An anonymous programmer going by the alias muslix 64 has created a utility called BackupHDDVD< which circumvents the AACS-encryption used in commercial HD discs. This is the first step toward decrypting high-def content for use on all devices. While AACS is used in both HD-DVD and BD, the latter contains additional forms of DRM that are unaffected by this program In addition to this backup utility, users need to obtain an HD-DVD's title key to successfully rip the content.

jorg · 02-13-2007, 07:31 PM

will studios know be implementing the other security features that blu-ray offers?

dialog_gvf · 02-13-2007, 07:42 PM

They can simply poison the vendor slot for the player in new releases.

I find it absolutely crazy the notion that anything should be held up because WinDVD can't follow the AACS license provisions!

Violators should be crippled. No mercy! Don't cause the rest of us to suffer.

Gary

theknub · 02-13-2007, 07:43 PM

well, i'm sure volume keys will first be revoked and new ones issues. next, i'd expect further copyright protection to be implemented to further complicate things

dantruon · 02-14-2007, 01:51 AM

studio are dumb to not release movies simply because of this hack since dowloading a 20GB hddvd or blu-ray is unfeasible for many even with my 24Mb connection i wouldnt download it since i am capped at 30 GB per month so im not going to wasted all my download on one movie. So my point is that, you will see less pirating for HDDVD and Bluray compare to dvd since the process is not feasible.

Alex Pallas · 02-14-2007, 06:49 AM

*bows to doom9*

jorg · 02-14-2007, 10:21 AM

your right lesss poeple willl be able to download knwo mnay in 15 just like dvd was to larg of a file back then but i bet u isp are loving 50 gig blu-rays lol

Blu_Ray_UK2007 · 02-14-2007, 02:25 PM

For the length of the download, and price of the blank media... I really wouldn't see the point in downloading.

theknub · 02-14-2007, 02:39 PM

and price of burner...

Blackraven · 02-14-2007, 02:43 PM

If this is a hit on both formats, I don't see on how this would hit Blu-ray without dragging its rival along.

Anyways, it's still too early to tell anyhow.

Nismobeach · 02-14-2007, 05:08 PM

The only way where I would see this being even remotely feasible is by renters copying movies and backing them up and playing them from large HDDs (re: half Tera or bigger). Theoretically one could store 20 BD25s or 10 BD50s (or 33.33 HD15s or 16.67 HD30s)on a 500GB HDD. The problem then becomes is it cost effective?

According to Newegg, their cheapest 500GB drive is $139.99, so it technically would be cost effective to store them. The problem at that point is one would need a HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray drive, a computer that was powerful enough to rip and play the movies and would also need an HD monitor watch them on that would sidestep the whole HDCP thing.

Ironically I could see someone easily using the PS3 as a means to do this via Linux, a 500GB 3.5 drive in a 2.0 USB hard drive enclosure, a XBOX 360 HD-DVD add-on drive, and some reverse engineered software drivers.

These are interesting technology times we live in friends.

JTK · 02-14-2007, 07:24 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805485

So are both formats now hacked or what?

Iceman_II · 02-14-2007, 07:31 PM

Both had ALREADY been hacked, think of it like they had found the individual keys to let them into an apartment or two in the HD-DVD complex, and at least one appartment in the blu-ray complex.... this new hack seems to be more far reaching. Rather than looking for individual keys, they found the master key for the whole appartment complex...

To keep with the door locking analogy, the "blu-ray" apartments at least have the capability to have a smart chip in the key (the hardware side of the blu-ray DRM) which may add a little more security for the content providers.

JTK · 02-14-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman_II

Both had ALREADY been hacked, think of it like they had found the individual keys to let them into an apartment or two in the HD-DVD complex, and at least one appartment in the blu-ray complex.... this new hack seems to be more far reaching. Rather than looking for individual keys, they found the master key for the whole appartment complex...

To keep with the door locking analogy, the "blu-ray" apartments at least have the capability to have a smart chip in the key (the hardware side of the blu-ray DRM) which may add a little more security for the content providers.

Alright. Thanks for that distinction.

baccusboy · 02-14-2007, 09:51 PM

People around here (Korea) won't have to download the disks. Same for China, Russia, and everywhere else that copied DVDs are sold everywhere.

They sell them on the street, in quick set-up-shops in the subways, and there are just oodles of vendors out in the open in the Youngsan Electronics Market in Seoul. Media will become cheaper.

And then there are Korean high-speed download sites where you pay about 60 cents to download an entire DVD in about 15 minutes! Never understood how it was legal, but I suppose they have some way around it because they charge. They haven't been shut down, but the free ones have.

They are tighter on local content rules, but as for USA movies, the gov't allows a free-for-all. Same for non-Korean software.

Now Koreans will be able to download HD content in about an hour!

02-13-2007, 07:31 PM	#7
jorg Power Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:2	. will studios know be implementing the other security features that blu-ray offers?

02-14-2007, 10:21 AM	#12
jorg Power Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:2	. your right lesss poeple willl be able to download knwo mnay in 15 just like dvd was to larg of a file back then but i bet u isp are loving 50 gig blu-rays lol

02-14-2007, 09:51 PM	#20
baccusboy Banned Member since:Feb 2007 Location:South Korea Blu-ray reviews:3	People around here (Korea) won't have to download the disks. Same for China, Russia, and everywhere else that copied DVDs are sold everywhere. They sell them on the street, in quick set-up-shops in the subways, and there are just oodles of vendors out in the open in the Youngsan Electronics Market in Seoul. Media will become cheaper. And then there are Korean high-speed download sites where you pay about 60 cents to download an entire DVD in about 15 minutes! Never understood how it was legal, but I suppose they have some way around it because they charge. They haven't been shut down, but the free ones have. They are tighter on local content rules, but as for USA movies, the gov't allows a free-for-all. Same for non-Korean software. Now Koreans will be able to download HD content in about an hour! Last edited by baccusboy; 02-14-2007 at 09:53 PM.

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02-13-2007, 04:41 PM	#2
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	This could explain the Fox titles being held back no?

02-13-2007, 04:45 PM	#3
blitz6speed Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Anaheim Hills, CA Trading Score:8	LOL, Kosty is trying to spin this as why Universal hasnt been releasing anything. Suuuuuure. They knew over a month ago this would have happened!

02-13-2007, 04:51 PM	#4
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	What they must have discovered is the vendor key. That is the key used to get the volume key from the media key block. Now that it is hacked, the AACS will have no choice but to revoke until the problem is solved. That means upcoming titles won't work without an update to the software. I wonder what happens when rdjam realizes that throttling Blu-ray content releases is the only defense left? Gary

02-13-2007, 07:42 PM	#8
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	They can simply poison the vendor slot for the player in new releases. I find it absolutely crazy the notion that anything should be held up because WinDVD can't follow the AACS license provisions! Violators should be crippled. No mercy! Don't cause the rest of us to suffer. Gary

02-13-2007, 07:43 PM	#9
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	well, i'm sure volume keys will first be revoked and new ones issues. next, i'd expect further copyright protection to be implemented to further complicate things

02-14-2007, 01:51 AM	#10
dantruon Junior Member Member since:Nov 2006	studio are dumb to not release movies simply because of this hack since dowloading a 20GB hddvd or blu-ray is unfeasible for many even with my 24Mb connection i wouldnt download it since i am capped at 30 GB per month so im not going to wasted all my download on one movie. So my point is that, you will see less pirating for HDDVD and Bluray compare to dvd since the process is not feasible.

02-14-2007, 06:49 AM	#11
Alex Pallas Active Member Member since:Sep 2005 Location:The Belly Of The Beast (USA)	bows to doom9

02-14-2007, 02:25 PM	#13
Blu_Ray_UK2007 Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Location:UK 4K collection:164 Blu-ray collection:782 Trading Score:1	For the length of the download, and price of the blank media... I really wouldn't see the point in downloading.

02-14-2007, 02:39 PM	#14
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	and price of burner...

02-14-2007, 02:43 PM	#15
Blackraven Expert Member Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Makati, Philippines	If this is a hit on both formats, I don't see on how this would hit Blu-ray without dragging its rival along. Anyways, it's still too early to tell anyhow.

02-14-2007, 05:08 PM	#16
Nismobeach Senior Member Member since:Dec 2006	The only way where I would see this being even remotely feasible is by renters copying movies and backing them up and playing them from large HDDs (re: half Tera or bigger). Theoretically one could store 20 BD25s or 10 BD50s (or 33.33 HD15s or 16.67 HD30s)on a 500GB HDD. The problem then becomes is it cost effective? According to Newegg, their cheapest 500GB drive is $139.99, so it technically would be cost effective to store them. The problem at that point is one would need a HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray drive, a computer that was powerful enough to rip and play the movies and would also need an HD monitor watch them on that would sidestep the whole HDCP thing. Ironically I could see someone easily using the PS3 as a means to do this via Linux, a 500GB 3.5 drive in a 2.0 USB hard drive enclosure, a XBOX 360 HD-DVD add-on drive, and some reverse engineered software drivers. These are interesting technology times we live in friends.

02-14-2007, 07:24 PM	#17
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805485 So are both formats now hacked or what?

02-14-2007, 07:31 PM	#18
Iceman_II Expert Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Ft. Worth Home Theater Gallery:2 Blu-ray collection:308 Blu-ray reviews: 4	Both had ALREADY been hacked, think of it like they had found the individual keys to let them into an apartment or two in the HD-DVD complex, and at least one appartment in the blu-ray complex.... this new hack seems to be more far reaching. Rather than looking for individual keys, they found the master key for the whole appartment complex... To keep with the door locking analogy, the "blu-ray" apartments at least have the capability to have a smart chip in the key (the hardware side of the blu-ray DRM) which may add a little more security for the content providers.

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