Is Warner Bros. Really as bad as they say?

[segagamer12]

Ok so my very first DVD I ever bought back in 2002 was the directors cut special edition of Leather Weapon and Lethal Weapon 2. Those DVD's set the bar for what a good release should be fantastic picture, good audio, loads of extras and I am pretty sure they let you chose between dc an tc of the films if I remember correctly. Well I get my first Blu Ray player in 2009 when I finally can afford it and the first two films I pick up of course are you guessed it Lethal Weapon 1 and 2. Now I have had them on DVD for years and have watched them to death so I also pick up a couple of newer films Pirates Trilogy, Spider Man, X-Men Trilogy and proceed to watch those first and put the Lethal Weapons on the back burner.


Well at the time I lived up the street from a kick ass Best Buy that always had good deals on Blu Ray discs so I went all out buying movies left and right and eventually I had more movies than I could watch and so I never had time to sit and watch them all and never got around to watching the very first two I bought.



Well recently dad got very very sick and was in ICU for nearly three weeks so life pretty much stopped and so I ended up watching a lot of movies in this time, you know to kind of reflect on things but also not think too hard about what was going on. Well I finally decided to have an action movie night, complete with Lethal Weapons 1 and 2, among others. Since I prefer 2 over one and I was not interested in going in order at this time I popped my Lethal Weapon 2 disc in expecting to be amazed...



and wow I almost threw the thing in the trash what the hell they really screwed up. The picture looked terrible even compared to my Short Circuit Blu Ray so I was pissed. Then I noticed the audio sounded really muffled or something I had my TV as loud as it gets and I still could barely hear what was going on there was no punch. I put in the Fifth Element to compare and audio was blasting again loud as it should be. So I then proceed to check out the special features and well I should have known there would be next to nothing right? Wrong I was expecting a kick ass release just like I had on DVD and I was so let down I proceeded to check out all my other Warner titles, Mortal Kombat, Dumb and Dumber, The Mask, and nope they all turned out pretty good, but these two movies just were a big letdown I was expecting so much better.




So I decided to see if I was going crazy and turns out the discs got bad reviews everywhere I went. I had always thought people were exaggerating their hate of Warners catalog titles but now I am worried about buying any more titles from them if they turn out to be trash like this, especially since my favorite film franchise of all time is a Warner release. Then I read all the hate the Lord of the Rings discs got and I am starting to wonder if it really is true that they don't care about Blu Ray or if they are still bitter about HD-DVD bombing?

[tilallr1]

Its hit and miss with Warner, sometimes they have phonominal titles like Blade Runner (Which might have had more to do with Ridley Scott than Warner). Other times they come out with bad releases like Lethal Weapon. Sometimes they have discs with amazing HD surround sound, other times, for some odd reason, they put a lossy track on a new release like Speed Racer .

The logic at Warner really escapes me, but I think it has to do more with the double dip strategy Warner likes to use. I think Warner is the King when it comes to the double dip. So my guess is at some point they will remaster those titles and release them to make more money off you later on. I have seen it countless times.

[HD Goofnut]

Up until later 2009 most of their catalog titles were in lossy audio. Thankfully, that has mostly stopped.

[segagamer12]

that makes no sense to me, Mortal Kombat a known b film flop had a pretty good set of special features but if your logic is correct that would make sense because they know your not going double dip on MK but you will on Lethal Weapon, damn them. Yeah but I checked those discs came out in 2006, its 2012 almost and still no word on a re-release or DC or even the other two films so right now they just suck in my book.

[BrandonJF]

The OP is looking at some of the very early WB titles - and the problematic ones at that. Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 didn't even have proper transfers (I seem to recall both were 1080i and actually had some apparent aliasing). WB has since released superior versions of Lethal Weapon 1 and 2, but not in the US. They can be bought in a set with Lethal Weapon 3 and 4 from places like Amazon.co.uk and will work in US players.

[VaporX94]

OP, how could or why should WB be "bitter about HD DVD bombing?" They announced their exclusivity to blu-ray, effectively starting the end of HD DVD and the format war. That was their executive choice.

I don't think WB is as bad as people make them out to be at times. A lot of their catalog discs have very good transfers. I can't say the same about Universal Studios.

[thedarkangel1975]

Depends on the title. All the titles are still an upgrade over the DvD verision no matter some posters say on here. I think with both Warner and Universal catalog titles, you are getting what was released on HD-DvD no upgrade. This not entirely terrible, but not the best use of technology. People also have to realize the studios are pushing the new format over dvd and they need cheap catalog titles to attract the average consumer who are not movie aficionados like us on this site.

[42041]

The early ones were really bad, with awful mushy bit-starved encodes and lossy audio. They've gotten better since. WB usually do a great job on their classic films, but it's a bit of a crapshoot otherwise, same as most studios really.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by segagamer12

[Show spoiler]Ok so my very first DVD I ever bought back in 2002 was the directors cut special edition of Leather Weapon and Lethal Weapon 2. Those DVD's set the bar for what a good release should be fantastic picture, good audio, loads of extras and I am pretty sure they let you chose between dc an tc of the films if I remember correctly. Well I get my first Blu Ray player in 2009 when I finally can afford it and the first two films I pick up of course are you guessed it Lethal Weapon 1 and 2. Now I have had them on DVD for years and have watched them to death so I also pick up a couple of newer films Pirates Trilogy, Spider Man, X-Men Trilogy and proceed to watch those first and put the Lethal Weapons on the back burner.


Well at the time I lived up the street from a kick ass Best Buy that always had good deals on Blu Ray discs so I went all out buying movies left and right and eventually I had more movies than I could watch and so I never had time to sit and watch them all and never got around to watching the very first two I bought.



Well recently dad got very very sick and was in ICU for nearly three weeks so life pretty much stopped and so I ended up watching a lot of movies in this time, you know to kind of reflect on things but also not think too hard about what was going on. Well I finally decided to have an action movie night, complete with Lethal Weapons 1 and 2, among others. Since I prefer 2 over one and I was not interested in going in order at this time I popped my Lethal Weapon 2 disc in expecting to be amazed...



and wow I almost threw the thing in the trash what the hell they really screwed up. The picture looked terrible even compared to my Short Circuit Blu Ray so I was pissed. Then I noticed the audio sounded really muffled or something I had my TV as loud as it gets and I still could barely hear what was going on there was no punch. I put in the Fifth Element to compare and audio was blasting again loud as it should be. So I then proceed to check out the special features and well I should have known there would be next to nothing right? Wrong I was expecting a kick ass release just like I had on DVD and I was so let down I proceeded to check out all my other Warner titles, Mortal Kombat, Dumb and Dumber, The Mask, and nope they all turned out pretty good, but these two movies just were a big letdown I was expecting so much better.




So I decided to see if I was going crazy and turns out the discs got bad reviews everywhere I went. I had always thought people were exaggerating their hate of Warners catalog titles but now I am worried about buying any more titles from them if they turn out to be trash like this, especially since my favorite film franchise of all time is a Warner release. Then I read all the hate the Lord of the Rings discs got and I am starting to wonder if it really is true that they don't care about Blu Ray or if they are still bitter about HD-DVD bombing?

Dude, WB has some of the BEST transfers out there for catalog titles. Sure they still bomb some but watch Gone With The Wind or Wizard of Oz. LW1 and 2 are KNOWN to be shitty transfers... import the Lethal Weapon Box from UK which includes only the Theatrical Versions which are Richard Donner's directors cuts (it is WELL known that the "directors cuts" of LW 1,2, and 3 are NOT actually approved by Donner himself). I've heard the transfers are fantastic and you can get the box pretty cheap if you watch out for the right price.

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by VaporX94

OP, how could or why should WB be "bitter about HD DVD bombing?" They announced their exclusivity to blu-ray, effectively ending HD DVD and the format war. That was their business choice.

I don't think WB is as bad as people make them out to be at times. A lot of their catalog discs have very good transfers. I can't say the same about Universal Studios.

This is true. They were playing on both sides on the fence and actually picked blu-ray as their preferred format. So that is definitely not the reason for some of their craptastic releases.

Still stand by the double dip reason. To name a few of the major titles double dipped by Warner on Blu-ray in recent years:

Lord of the Rings Series
Harry Potter Series
Watchmen
300
I Am Legend
Superman Returns
Natural Born Killers

Trust me there will be alot more coming.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

This is true. They were playing on both sides on the fence and actually picked blu-ray as their preferred format. So that is definitely not the reason for some of their craptastic releases.

Still stand by the double dip reason. To name a few of the major titles double dipped by Warner on Blu-ray in recent years:

Lord of the Rings Series
Harry Potter Series
Watchmen
300
I Am Legend
Superman Returns
Natural Born Killers

Trust me there will be alot more coming.

To be fair, LotR and Watchmen were two different releases, one was a theatrical version and one EE for LotR, and Watchmen was the Directors Cut and the other was the Ultimate Cut. Not a true "double dip" by all means. Granted, they could have included them in the same release, so I understand what you mean, but gotta point that out.

Edit: but you are correct in the double dip reasoning, WB is KING of double dips, especially with BD, they have done it more than any other studio (by my personal observation that is, not backed up by critical data)

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

To be fair, LotR and Watchmen were two different releases, one was a theatrical version and one EE for LotR, and Watchmen was the Directors Cut and the other was the Ultimate Cut. Not a true "double dip" by all means. Granted, they could have included them in the same release, so I understand what you mean, but gotta point that out.

Edit: but you are correct in the double dip reasoning, WB is KING of double dips, especially with BD, they have done it more than any other studio (by my personal observation that is, not backed up by critical data)

I think for me its just personal double-dipping I have had to do over the years, even on DVD. Warner has made me do it the most.

[steve_dave]

Lethal Weapon Collection will get the same release as the UK in the US next year. Lethal & Lethal 2 were simulreleased on BD & HD DVD when HD DVD's highest capacity was 30gbs. The Blu-rays got a similar sized encode on the BD with the same 640kbs DD track.

Not only have the films been truly remastered but they also include new special features.

Now, not all of the simulreleased titles will get the same treatment and that's a financial decision. Unforgiven will also get a "repromotion" in 2012 but it will be the same BD as before.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Lethal Weapon Collection will get the same release as the UK in the US next year. Lethal & Lethal 2 were simulreleased on BD & HD DVD when HD DVD's highest capacity was 30gbs. The Blu-rays got a similar sized encode on the BD with the same 640kbs DD track.

Not only have the films been truly remastered but they also include new special features.

Now, not all of the simulreleased titles will get the same treatment and that's a financial decision. Unforgiven will also get a "repromotion" in 2012 but it will be the same BD as before.

Good News to hear about LW, but they've been low enough on Amazon.uk a few times that importing them woulda been cheap! Sad news about Unforgiven... that's one that I refuse to update until it gets a proper remaster that it deserves... I still got my 2 disc DVD until then to tide me over! Thanks for the info Steve Dave.

[whbinder]

Warner is a blessing and a curse. They do two things more frequently than most studios.

They're willing to release a much larger selection of titles, including catalog titles. The trade-off is that not every title can be a special edition, so the features are sparse and sometimes less attention and care are given to them in terms of PQ and AQ

They are also willing to try stuff, like new codecs or flippers, etc. sometimes these experiments work. Sometimes they don't.

So overall, we get a wider selection of titles, with sometimes less than stellar results. It's rare that a truly "bad" disc comes down the pike, but it does happen now and again.

Personally, I'm happy with the model. I'd rather get the option of a maybe less than definitive version of something like "Mars Attacks!" than to not have it at all. But that's just me.

[kemcha]

Warner's isn't all that bad, they just spend enough of a budget on what they consider lower tiered titles. If it's a recent new movie from the theaters, they'll spend the money on a decent budget for the conversion to Blu-ray.

If it's an older movie from theirt catalog, they just won't spend the money for a decent budget on the release to Blu-ray. If Warner doesn't think it'll draw much interest, it won't get much of a budget. They only spend for a budget if they can recoup that money and get a profit from its release.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Warner's isn't all that bad, they just spend enough of a budget on what they consider lower tiered titles. If it's a recent new movie from the theaters, they'll spend the money on a decent budget for the conversion to Blu-ray.

If it's an older movie from theirt catalog, they just won't spend the money for a decent budget on the release to Blu-ray. If Warner doesn't think it'll draw much interest, it won't get much of a budget. They only spend for a budget if they can recoup that money and get a profit from its release.

Yes, well put.

[42041]

Originally Posted by kemcha

If it's an older movie from theirt catalog, they just won't spend the money for a decent budget on the release to Blu-ray. If Warner doesn't think it'll draw much interest, it won't get much of a budget. They only spend for a budget if they can recoup that money and get a profit from its release.

I wouldn't say that's accurate. WB restore or remaster many of their higher profile older movies, moreso than most studios. Even when they don't go all-out and use a lesser transfer, their releases tend to look like film.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Warner's isn't all that bad, they just spend enough of a budget on what they consider lower tiered titles. If it's a recent new movie from the theaters, they'll spend the money on a decent budget for the conversion to Blu-ray.

If it's an older movie from theirt catalog, they just won't spend the money for a decent budget on the release to Blu-ray. If Warner doesn't think it'll draw much interest, it won't get much of a budget. They only spend for a budget if they can recoup that money and get a profit from its release.

That's the case with every studio, since newer movies typically sell better than catalog titles. Warner also has the largest movie database of any of the studios, so how can they spend the same amount on every film they choose to release? They can't.

[Beta Man]

I didn't realize Lethal Weapon 1 or 2 were anywhere near "reference" quality at the time of their release.

A quick google check (since I didn't want to rely solely on my eyes) shows "Average or Above Average" scores for the AQ/PQ

Either way. I think every studio has produced some great Blu-rays, and every studio has put out some head-scratchers.