4K Blu-ray content on the horizon?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

4k support would add to the cost of the console. Sony is going to want to make the Playstation 4 as cheap as reasonable. Even by 2013 the number of 4k televisions will be less then 1%

High def TVs were much more prevelant in 2000 then 4k televisions will be until at least 2015 yet the Playstation 2 did not have HD support because the cost benefit ratio wasn't there yet. It wasn't until HDTVs were nearly ten years old did consoles come out to fully support them.

See Intel Ivy Bridge chips to support 4k resolution. If the embedded chip technology coming mid year supports 4K, and we can live with BD's being upscaled initially to 4K, the commercialization to using 4K displays will probably occur a lot more rapid then your 2000 example. Technology has evolved by leaps and bound as evidence by some of the things presented at CES 2012. Ever thought you would see multiple vendors show a 55" OLED after Sony's failed attempt?

[JohnAV]

Sharp 8K Super Hi-Vision LCD, 4K TV and Freestyle wireless LCD HDTV hands-on

We got a hint of Sharp's plans during its CES 2012 press conference two days ago, but really nothing can prepare you for the sight of the company's 7,680x4,320 resolution 85-inch Super Hi-Vision 8K LCD. No matter how close we got, we still couldn't see the pixels, and the video reels being demonstrated showed an almost unimaginable level of detail. The worst part of it was, seeing that first almost ruined the experience of checking out the ICC 4K demo at the other end of the booth. We can say this -- after seeing Super Hi-Vision there's really no going back. Make an appointment to see those 33MP broadcasts from the London Olympics now.

So now we even have 8K displays being demoed . . .

[saprano]

Well, superapplekid, it seems like i spoke too soon. Forget the PS4. 4K upscaling will be here in april-

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=8010

[superapplekid]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

4k support would add to the cost of the console. Sony is going to want to make the Playstation 4 as cheap as reasonable. Even by 2013 the number of 4k televisions will be less then 1%

High def TVs were much more prevelant in 2000 then 4k televisions will be until at least 2015 yet the Playstation 2 did not have HD support because the cost benefit ratio wasn't there yet. It wasn't until HDTVs were nearly ten years old did consoles come out to fully support them.

Sony has never gone the cheap route. That was a gamble made by Nintendo this gen, and even though it paid off I don't see Sony straying from their strategy. Even the Vita is set to continue their pricey-yet-techy legacy. Sony has an unbreakable habit of creating cutting edge consumer electronics whether people want them or not.

HDTVs were prevalent in the 2000's in the sense that some were 720p. I don't think 1080p became prevalent until 2004ish. There are already a plethora of 4k sets announced, and by the end of the year consumers will have several options. I don't think adoption will be prevalent at all by then, but again, we are talking the PS4 - Sony are going to design it to be futureproof the same way the PS3 was; the PS3 used Bluray instead of DVD, HDMI, cell processors that can adapt to 3D and 4k still images late in the products life-cycle. Unless Sony radically changes strategies, which they wont since they are a principle pusher of 4k and 3D, the PS4 will be able to support it.

Now, as for what it will cost, I don't know. Actual HDMI connectors are going to be pennies, if even, so they won't add to the cost. Blurays with many extra layers have been demonstrated using only slightly modified optics, so that won't increase cost. Finally, the horsepower to play back higher compression/video processing/whatever likely won't be an issue since that's most of what this device is made to do as a gaming machine. Keep in mind, the PS3 was the cheapest and best bluray player for a long time, so it wouldn't be out of line for the PS4 to be the best and cheapest 3D 4k player either (from $400-600). If you can list a good reason why a 4k player would need something that would significantly add to the cost of the PS4 feel free to let me know, but I can't think of it.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by superapplekid

Sony has never gone the cheap route. That was a gamble made by Nintendo this gen, and even though it paid off I don't see Sony straying from their strategy. Even the Vita is set to continue their pricey-yet-techy legacy. Sony has an unbreakable habit of creating cutting edge consumer electronics whether people want them or not.

HDTVs were prevalent in the 2000's in the sense that some were 720p. I don't think 1080p became prevalent until 2004ish. There are already a plethora of 4k sets announced, and by the end of the year consumers will have several options. I don't think adoption will be prevalent at all by then, but again, we are talking the PS4 - Sony are going to design it to be futureproof the same way the PS3 was; the PS3 used Bluray instead of DVD, HDMI, cell processors that can adapt to 3D and 4k still images late in the products life-cycle. Unless Sony radically changes strategies, which they wont since they are a principle pusher of 4k and 3D, the PS4 will be able to support it.

Now, as for what it will cost, I don't know. Actual HDMI connectors are going to be pennies, if even, so they won't add to the cost. Blurays with many extra layers have been demonstrated using only slightly modified optics, so that won't increase cost. Finally, the horsepower to play back higher compression/video processing/whatever likely won't be an issue since that's most of what this device is made to do as a gaming machine. Keep in mind, the PS3 was the cheapest and best bluray player for a long time, so it wouldn't be out of line for the PS4 to be the best and cheapest 3D 4k player either (from $400-600). If you can list a good reason why a 4k player would need something that would significantly add to the cost of the PS4 feel free to let me know, but I can't think of it.

Blu-Ray was only included in the Playstation 3 to win the format war with HD-DVD. It was Sony's decision in the matter that gave Blu-Ray its victory. It allowed Sony to corner the high def movie market which payed off in the end. But early on the high cost that Blu-Ray added to the console ($250 added to the cost of building every unit) actually hurt them in the game market. They sacraficed a portion of the gaming market to corner the high def movie market. A gamble that payed off

With the case of 4k I don't see any incentive for the Playstation 4 to support it. There won't be nearly enough 4k TVs on the market to make it worth the signifigant cost it would add to the console. Not to mention rendering games at 4k would take signifigant processing power away from rendering character models and animation which would benefit over a hundred times as many gamers. If Sony has a new 4k format with a signifigant competitor then I could see support but otherwise no just no.

The Playstation 5 will probably have it though

[Crazy People]

After reading many people's opinions on this thread, it feels like this is just another example of the typical American consumer. That there is this constant need to upgrade and to change, when what you currently have is more then sufficient.

I'm all for practical improvements to technology. VHS brought movies into the home. DVD's made huge improvements to picture and audio quality, along with an increased ability to navigate. Those are both monumental changes.

The change from DVD to Blu-ray was nice. It was not monumental. I have upgraded my DVD collection to Blu-ray in order to get better Picture Quality. The differences in audio are negligable to me. Many people have not upgraded their movie collections.

This push to 4K feels like a desperate attempt by the electronic manufacturers to find the "next" thing to push on the consumers. 3D Televisions have no increased demand. Now they are going to try and push 4K to increase demand.

The reality is that most consumers, even with a good TV and proper set-up, have a hard time telling the difference between a 720p and 1080p television. Only the consumers who are highly educated in technology will be able to tell the differences between 1080p and 4K.

To further flesh out this idea that 4K is not worth it, is the television sizes. People are not going to be buying 100" TVs. They are too big for the current houses. A 42" TV is more then big enough for most living rooms. 1080p to 4K will have little to no impact on a 42" TV.

4K is great if you are a millionaire with a dedicated home theater room that has a projector with a 20 foot screen. 4K is worthless pixels on a screen for the rest of us.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Crazy People

After reading many people's opinions on this thread, it feels like this is just another example of the typical American consumer. That there is this constant need to upgrade and to change, when what you currently have is more then sufficient.

I'm all for practical improvements to technology. VHS brought movies into the home. DVD's made huge improvements to picture and audio quality, along with an increased ability to navigate. Those are both monumental changes.

The change from DVD to Blu-ray was nice. It was not monumental. I have upgraded my DVD collection to Blu-ray in order to get better Picture Quality. The differences in audio are negligable to me. Many people have not upgraded their movie collections.

This push to 4K feels like a desperate attempt by the electronic manufacturers to find the "next" thing to push on the consumers. 3D Televisions have no increased demand. Now they are going to try and push 4K to increase demand.

The reality is that most consumers, even with a good TV and proper set-up, have a hard time telling the difference between a 720p and 1080p television. Only the consumers who are highly educated in technology will be able to tell the differences between 1080p and 4K.

To further flesh out this idea that 4K is not worth it, is the television sizes. People are not going to be buying 100" TVs. They are too big for the current houses. A 42" TV is more then big enough for most living rooms. 1080p to 4K will have little to no impact on a 42" TV.

4K is great if you are a millionaire with a dedicated home theater room that has a projector with a 20 foot screen. 4K is worthless pixels on a screen for the rest of us.

Im really tired of naysayers on new technology wining that the existance of new tech is forcing them to shell out money. 4k and 3D are both ways to make movies more lifelike. 20 years ago only the rich had televisions bigger then 40 inches now a worker at Burger King can afford one. I see this as a good thing. Technology is improving get over it

"You getter start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a changin" Bob Dylan

[Crazy People]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Im really tired of naysayers on new technology wining that the existance of new tech is forcing them to shell out money. 4k and 3D are both ways to make movies more lifelike. 20 years ago only the rich had televisions bigger then 40 inches now a worker at Burger King can afford one. I see this as a good thing. Technology is improving get over it

"You getter start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a changin" Bob Dylan

I have yet to see 3D (including Avatar) that didn't make my brain think that it looked fake.

This 1080p to 4k comes down to diminishing returns. Is that increase in technology really worth the change? In this case, it's not. At least not for most people and the way they watch movies. Most people will not watch movies on TV's over 60". The electronic companies can always find new ways to "improve" technology. At what point are those improvements not worth the hassel of changing everything to play it? I think we are at that point. 1080p is good enough for almost everybody. Maybe in 20 years if something really revolutionary comes out that changes the way to watch TV, it will be worth changing things. I don't see the need to increase the number of pixels on my television screen that I won't even notice.

20 years ago, I knew at least a few people who were not rich who had rear projection TV's that were in the 40" range.

[superapplekid]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Blu-Ray was only included in the Playstation 3 to win the format war with HD-DVD. It was Sony's decision in the matter that gave Blu-Ray its victory. It allowed Sony to corner the high def movie market which payed off in the end. But early on the high cost that Blu-Ray added to the console ($250 added to the cost of building every unit) actually hurt them in the game market. They sacraficed a portion of the gaming market to corner the high def movie market. A gamble that payed off

With the case of 4k I don't see any incentive for the Playstation 4 to support it. There won't be nearly enough 4k TVs on the market to make it worth the signifigant cost it would add to the console. Not to mention rendering games at 4k would take signifigant processing power away from rendering character models and animation which would benefit over a hundred times as many gamers. If Sony has a new 4k format with a signifigant competitor then I could see support but otherwise no just no.

The Playstation 5 will probably have it though

Again, I am not seeing where it is significantly adding to cost. If Bluray added significantly to the cost of the PS3 that was because it was a new medium requiring all new manufacturing. 4K will almost 100% guaranteed be on bluray discs, possibly with extra layers, which won't add to the cost.

And just because the PS4 will have the horsepower to process a 4K movie doesn't mean it has to render games at 4K. Most games this gen are at best rendered at 720p (or lower), yet the PS3 still plays 1080P movies amazingly well. I am only arguing that the PS4 will inherently have the processing power to cope with 4K movies because of the specs that are probably going to be imposed on it bc of improved graphics for games. Rendering a game at 1080p is probably as intensive (if not more so) than reading a packaged 4k image off a disc. I am not an expert in this area, so if you know differently please feel free to explain specifically where I am wrong.

As for the market penetration of 4k, I agree that it isn't going to be huge, but that doesn't mean Sony isn't banking on it being big. Sony is backing 3D like nobody else, and they're quickly following suite with 4K. Unless there is some very restrictive reason, I don't see why they wouldn't add 4K to their next console, because Sony is a company that is all about synergy. If people have a console that incidentally can play 4K bluray, then then rebuying Sony movies in 4K and getting a Sony 4K display is a significantly smaller investment. This is what Sony wants, and it is one of the reasons (beyond winning the format war) that the PS3 had blurays; bc Sony sells movies and HDTVs. When the PS3 came out very few had HDTVs, and I bet a lot of people ended up getting one because they already incidentally had a HD capable device like the PS3.

The PS3 will already be able to output 4K image stills. Assuming the HDMI/disc specs are worked out soon I will put money on the PS4 being capable of 4k bluray playback in some fashion.

[Crazy People]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Im really tired of naysayers on new technology wining that the existance of new tech is forcing them to shell out money. 4k and 3D are both ways to make movies more lifelike. 20 years ago only the rich had televisions bigger then 40 inches now a worker at Burger King can afford one. I see this as a good thing. Technology is improving get over it

"You getter start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a changin" Bob Dylan

Originally Posted by superapplekid

Again, I am not seeing where it is significantly adding to cost. If Bluray added significantly to the cost of the PS3 that was because it was a new medium requiring all new manufacturing. 4K will almost 100% guaranteed be on bluray discs, possibly with extra layers, which won't add to the cost.

And just because the PS4 will have the horsepower to process a 4K movie doesn't mean it has to render games at 4K. Most games this gen are at best rendered at 720p (or lower), yet the PS3 still plays 1080P movies amazingly well. I am only arguing that the PS4 will inherently have the processing power to cope with 4K movies because of the specs that are probably going to be imposed on it bc of improved graphics for games. Rendering a game at 1080p is probably as intensive (if not more so) than reading a packaged 4k image off a disc. I am not an expert in this area, so if you know differently please feel free to explain specifically where I am wrong.

As for the market penetration of 4k, I agree that it isn't going to be huge, but that doesn't mean Sony isn't banking on it being big. Sony is backing 3D like nobody else, and they're quickly following suite with 4K. Unless there is some very restrictive reason, I don't see why they wouldn't add 4K to their next console, because Sony is a company that is all about synergy. If people have a console that incidentally can play 4K bluray, then then rebuying Sony movies in 4K and getting a Sony 4K display is a significantly smaller investment. This is what Sony wants, and it is one of the reasons (beyond winning the format war) that the PS3 had blurays; bc Sony sells movies and HDTVs. When the PS3 came out very few had HDTVs, and I bet a lot of people ended up getting one because they already incidentally had a HD capable device like the PS3.

The PS3 will already be able to output 4K image stills. Assuming the HDMI/disc specs are worked out soon I will put money on the PS4 being capable of 4k bluray playback in some fashion.

It all comes down to cost. They have to be able to compete wit the XBOX 720 in price. 4K won't sell many units, so the cost benefit of including it in the PS4 is low.

[GamerBoy14]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Eh, give me higher resolution over a 3D gimmick any day.

Don't get me wrong, the high resolution sounds nice, but considering I just recently upgraded my television a little over a month ago, and my space constraints opposed to the large screens needed to get the full benefit of 4K, I don't see it in my future anytime soon, but things can change at any moment.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Crazy People

This push to 4K feels like a desperate attempt by the electronic manufacturers to find the "next" thing to push on the consumers. 3D Televisions have no increased demand. Now they are going to try and push 4K to increase demand.

You are missing the point

Nothing is being pushed on, and no one will be forced to upgrade. Obviously, TV sets, projectors, and other hardware will continue to improve, but this does not mean that there will be a massive transition to something new. The type of government mandate for HD that you saw not too long ago is very unlikely to be pushed on for 4K. Voluntary upgrades? Sure. But this isn't a standard definition to high-definition transition to worry about. Let's be clear here.

The new happened with the arrival of Blu-ray, which is a format that allows great adjustments, branching, etc. Naturally, the content owners and the manufacturers can continue to introduce new options while supporting an established format (it is HD within HD upgrades). This is the beauty of Blu-ray - it allows for great flexibility.

It became obvious a few years ago that this was one of the key reasons why everyone united behind Blu-ray. And as far as 4K is concerned, it will be another option, part of the Blu-ray portfolio. You won't have to replace your collections, etc. You simply get an extra option.

I personally remain a firm believer that the studios will not be selling their masters for pennies (which is what 4K content essentially is) and there will be restrictions, so to speculate that there is something new, a new format, that would replace Blu-ray in a foreseeable future is as naive and asinine as trying to claim that HD DVD will stage a comeback.

It became obvious that some 4K content will be sold on the market in the future, just like you have some 3D content at the moment, with Blu-ray's assistance. After all, Sony have been prepping their 4K library and investing into proper masters for quite some time now for a reason. They were just ahead of everyone else...again.

To sum it all up, Blu-ray as you know it will continue to grow, only there will be more options for the consumer and the studios/hardware manufacturers to explore. That's all.

Pro-B

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

You are missing the point

Nothing is being pushed on, and no one will be forced to upgrade. Obviously, TV sets, projectors, and other hardware will continue to improve, but this does not mean that there will be a massive transition to something new. The type of government mandate for HD that you saw not too long ago is very unlikely to be pushed on for 4K. Voluntary upgrades? Sure. But this isn't a standard definition to high-definition transition to worry about. Let's be clear here.

The new happened with the arrival of Blu-ray, which is a format that allows great adjustments, branching, etc. Naturally, the content owners and the manufacturers can continue to introduce new options while supporting an established format (it is HD within HD upgrades). This is the beauty of Blu-ray - it allows for great flexibility.

It became obvious a few years ago that this was one of the primarily reasons why everyone united behind Blu-ray. And as far as 4K is concerned, it will be another option, part of the Blu-ray portfolio. You won't have to replace your collections, etc. You simply get an extra option.

I personally remain a firm believer that the studios will not be selling their masters for pennies (which is what 4K content essentially is) and there will be restrictions, so to speculate that there is something new, a new format, that would replace Blu-ray in a foreseeable future is as naive and asinine as trying to claim that HD DVD will stage a comeback.

It became obvious that some 4K content will be sold on the market in the future, just like you have some 3D content at the moment, with Blu-ray's assistance. After all, Sony have been prepping their 4K library and investing into proper masters for quite some time now for a reason. They were just ahead of everyone else...again.

To sum it all up, Blu-ray as you know it will continue to grow, only there will be more options for the consumer and the studios/hardware manufacturers to explore. That's all.

Pro-B

Yes, 4k will be part of the family. Exactly what i said in another post. The option is there for people who want it. PROGRESS everyone.


Crazy people, how do you know people cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p? Have you visited everyones home? I certainly can. Also, how do you know in the future people wont tell the difference between 1080p and 4k? Like someone mentioned in another post displays could be very light in the future and we may have even small screens with 4k (if we are using them like tablets for example) The eyes would be close and i am betting we could see the benefits of 4k even on a 20-24 inch screen.

[Fabiosugitani]

I like the idea of the 4K Tvs, but I wonder how much the old movies can get improved from it. At the moment I'm more interested in the thinner frameless tvs, but I understand what the market is trying to do and i can't wait to see it get cheap enough.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by superapplekid

Again, I am not seeing where it is significantly adding to cost. If Bluray added significantly to the cost of the PS3 that was because it was a new medium requiring all new manufacturing. 4K will almost 100% guaranteed be on bluray discs, possibly with extra layers, which won't add to the cost..

Unless your some kind of insider thats a big assumption your making based on absolutely nothing. I see no evidence whatsoever any studios are planning to release 4k movies on multi-layered Blu-Rays. If you do please present it

The first generation Playstation 2s didn't even feature progressive scaning for its DVD player. With no competing format it wanted to trump it settled for the bare minimum. I suspect the Playstation 4 will do little as a movie player that the Playstation 3 didn't.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Crazy People

I have yet to see 3D (including Avatar) that didn't make my brain think that it looked fake.

This 1080p to 4k comes down to diminishing returns. Is that increase in technology really worth the change? In this case, it's not. At least not for most people and the way they watch movies. Most people will not watch movies on TV's over 60". The electronic companies can always find new ways to "improve" technology. At what point are those improvements not worth the hassel of changing everything to play it? I think we are at that point. 1080p is good enough for almost everybody. Maybe in 20 years if something really revolutionary comes out that changes the way to watch TV, it will be worth changing things. I don't see the need to increase the number of pixels on my television screen that I won't even notice..

Every time new technology is pused I always have to hear whinners say what they have is good enough. "I just upgraded why are they pushing new stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa." When DVD was pushed I heard this nonsense up until 2005 that VHS was good enough for them. With Blu-Ray I heard that DVD was good enough. When 3D came out we still hear 2D is good enough Im just sick of this nonsense.

Fact is 4k does enhance the experiance when played on TVs large enough. For people who want to watch there movies on the largest screen they can fit that added detail really enhances the experiance. NEVER SETTLE FOR GOOD ENOUGH. NEVER

[Jbug]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Im really tired of naysayers on new technology wining that the existance of new tech is forcing them to shell out money. 4k and 3D are both ways to make movies more lifelike. 20 years ago only the rich had televisions bigger then 40 inches now a worker at Burger King can afford one. I see this as a good thing. Technology is improving get over it

"You getter start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a changin" Bob Dylan

+1 most of the folks here seem to want progression to fail or slow down to the speed they are walking. You don't have to buy anything you don't want any body knows that. I like the speed the train is going cause you never know when the end of the track will show up. IOW, I'm not promised tomorrow so let the technology train through and you folks stand aside.

[Steedeel]

BINGO! Jbug. We are heading towards films on a mobile phone being the norm for goodness sake! Anyone who cares about the future of film should be considering embracing the latest tech while we can still see it.

[Crazy People]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Every time new technology is pused I always have to hear whinners say what they have is good enough. "I just upgraded why are they pushing new stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa." When DVD was pushed I heard this nonsense up until 2005 that VHS was good enough for them. With Blu-Ray I heard that DVD was good enough. When 3D came out we still hear 2D is good enough Im just sick of this nonsense.

Fact is 4k does enhance the experiance when played on TVs large enough. For people who want to watch there movies on the largest screen they can fit that added detail really enhances the experiance. NEVER SETTLE FOR GOOD ENOUGH. NEVER

Really? People prefered VHS To DVD? Never knew anybody like that. Must be an outlier. You could see the difference between VHS to DVD. You can slightly see the difference between DVD to Blu-ray. The difference between Blu-ray to 4K is even smaller.

It's not settling for good enough. It's being honest enough that a change is not needed based on the size of the differences involved.

Look at a speaker system. 20.2 is better then 10.1 which is better then 7.1 which is better then 5.1 which is better then 2.0 which is better then TV speakers. The electronic companies will always try to push out newer and "better". Should we keep on pushing along until 20.2 becomes standard? have speakers all over the room the ultimate surround experience? It gets to a point of being obnoxious. I had a 7.1 set-up and ended up reducing it back down to 5.1 The extra 2 speakers were not worth it.

The same concept applies to TV. At some point, a certain resolution is good enough. It stops at some point. For 99% of the consumers, it ends at Blu-ray/1080p quality.

[steve1971]

I for one am all for "improved Technology" but I feel to enjoy the full benefits of 4K you will need a projection screen and not just a 46inch or bigger HDTV. Manufacturers like Sony are not forcing anyone to "upgrade" their systems because of the next big thing to come out, god knows when 3D hit I didnt run out and buy a new tv, they are just giving the consumer the option and down the road 4K will be an option you may be willing to have but it will be up to you.