I've been spoiled by Fox's high bitrate titles...

[patrick99]

I have found that after watching Fox's recent very high bitrate releases with their superlative PQ, such as Mr. Brooks, Silver Surfer, Prison Break, Die Hard 4, and Man on Fire, I really almost can't watch the slightly lower bitrate releases from other studios like Sony and Disney that used to look good to me.

Am I the only one who's having this problem?

[degas]

Well, Fox has certainly released plenty of titles that are way below par as well, so...
Sony and Disney easily beat Fox in terms of consistancy.

Those you name above are indeed good transfers, but I wouldn't say its because of bitrate only.
Warner, with their pre-filtering, is another story though...

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by degas

Well, Fox has certainly released plenty of titles that are way below par as well, so...
Sony and Disney easily beat Fox in terms of consistancy.

Those you name above are indeed good transfers, but I wouldn't say its because of bitrate only.
Warner, with their pre-filtering, is another story though...

My point wasn't about consistency. I certainly agree that Fox's pre-hiatus releases were undistinguished, for the most part, with some exceptions (KoH, for example), and that some of the post-hiatus releases that seemingly were already done before the hiatus have been unexceptional.

My point was that on the best of their recent releases, using bitrates that are often in the mid 30's, Fox has produced PQ results that seem to show that there is a clear benefit from using this somewhat higher bitrate level.

In contrast, Sony and Disney seem to have decided that, apart from the occasional very high action scene, bitrates in the mid to high 20's are sufficient.

I won't say anything about Warner.

[degas]

Originally Posted by patrick99

My point was that on the best of their recent releases, using bitrates that are often in the mid 30's, Fox has produced PQ results that seem to show that there is a clear benefit from using this somewhat higher bitrate level..

I understand you.
However, I don't think high bitrate is the whole answer to the PQ of those releases. Cameras used, shooting style, post processing, mastering, compression/encoding etc will all play their part.
And all those things are probably more important than high bitrates (to a certain degree of course, but when comparing mid 20's to mid 30's).

But that said, I certainly don't advocate low bitrates - I like best possible bitrate (and audio) too. I just don't believe that's the main "maker" of great PQ (again comparing good bitrates with better bitrates).

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by degas

I understand you.
However, I don't think high bitrate is the whole answer to the PQ of those releases. Cameras used, shooting style, post processing, mastering, compression/encoding etc will all play their part.
And all those things are probably more important than high bitrates (to a certain degree of course, but when comparing mid 20's to mid 30's).

But that said, I certainly don't advocate low bitrates - I like best possible bitrate (and audio) too. I just don't believe that's the main "maker" of great PQ (again comparing good bitrates with better bitrates).

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

I certainly don't disagree that there are a lot of factors at work. I guess when I see bitrates in the mid to high 20's and the PQ is good but not outstanding, I don't know whether it is the bitrate or something else that is to blame. But when I see, on a release like Fox's Cast Away, that the bitrate is pretty consistently in the mid 30's, I feel comfortable that the PQ level (which is not as outstanding as the other Fox titles I mentioned before) is a result of qualities in the source material rather than inadequate bitrates.

Also when, in a release like Silver Surfer, some scenes without high action have bitrates well into the 30's and other scenes have bitrates in the 20's, the scenes with the bitrates in the 30's consistently look better to me than scenes with bitrates in the 20's.

[GarettP]

Heck, I'm spoiled by Blu-ray period! Can't remember the last time I actually went to the Movies, rather wait for it to come on Blu!

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by GarettP

Heck, I'm spoiled by Blu-ray period! Can't remember the last time I actually went to the Movies, rather wait for it to come on Blu!

The last time I actually went to the movies I couldn't believe how soft the picture looked.

[docjan_uk]

I would suggest that the last thing people do, perhaps out of curiosity rather than anything would be to check the somewhat inaccurate bit-rate meter on the PS3.

First things first, just take it in with your eyes.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by docjan_uk

I would suggest that the last thing people do, perhaps out of curiosity rather than anything would be to check the somewhat inaccurate bit-rate meter on the PS3.

First things first, just take it in with your eyes.

The most obvious inaccuracy is that there is clearly a very slight lag in the reported bitrate. Do you think or know that there are others?

I assume you know that Amir is probably the most notable voice asserting the inaccuracy of the PS3 bitrate meter?

"You should be watching the movie and not the bitrate meter" is really one of the red side talking points, I'm afraid.

[docjan_uk]

If it's a red talking point, it would be a valid one.

Take it in first, if you see issues with your own eyes, dig a little deeper.
There are many possible reasons for poor quality picture beyond pure bitrate though.
The bandwidth is useful to have, but it's not the be all and end all for picture quality.

[upnorthsox]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

I certainly don't disagree that there are a lot of factors at work. I guess when I see bitrates in the mid to high 20's and the PQ is good but not outstanding, I don't know whether it is the bitrate or something else that is to blame. But when I see, on a release like Fox's Cast Away, that the bitrate is pretty consistently in the mid 30's, I feel comfortable that the PQ level (which is not as outstanding as the other Fox titles I mentioned before) is a result of qualities in the source material rather than inadequate bitrates.

Also when, in a release like Silver Surfer, some scenes without high action have bitrates well into the 30's and other scenes have bitrates in the 20's, the scenes with the bitrates in the 30's consistently look better to me than scenes with bitrates in the 20's.

OT: How is Castaway on BD? It's one of my "maybe" upgrade titles mostly because of how many times I've watched the dvd version (Signs is another). However, the plane crash scene could put me over the top.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by upnorthsox

OT: How is Castaway on BD? It's one of my "maybe" upgrade titles mostly because of how many times I've watched the dvd version (Signs is another). However, the plane crash scene could put me over the top.

So far I have only watched the first 30 minutes or so. It clearly does not look as good as a new movie. I don't think you will be disappointed with the plane crash scene though.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by docjan_uk

If it's a red talking point, it would be a valid one.

Take it in first, if you see issues with your own eyes, dig a little deeper.
There are many possible reasons for poor quality picture beyond pure bitrate though.
The bandwidth is useful to have, but it's not the be all and end all for picture quality.

My preference is to have a higher bitrate so that I can feel comfortable that if the image quality of what I am seeing is less than ideal, the reasons for that are something other than inadequate bitrate.

[Clark Kent]

Since the hiatus Fox has released outstanding release after outstanding release. High bitrate AVC looks incredible. They are topping even Disney now for picture quality on their recent releases. If the Fox compressionists are reading this, keep up the good work.

[w_tanoto]

Originally Posted by patrick99

I have found that after watching Fox's recent very high bitrate releases with their superlative PQ, such as Mr. Brooks, Silver Surfer, Prison Break, Die Hard 4, and Man on Fire, I really almost can't watch the slightly lower bitrate releases from other studios like Sony and Disney that used to look good to me.

Am I the only one who's having this problem?

FOX has shocked me with those high bitrates, even higher than disney, but overall release combined PQ/AQ, I would still go with disney for top quality, but PQ crown belongs to fox now. AQ crown belongs to Disney. Combined PQ/AQ crown belongs to Disney

[bajor27]

Originally Posted by patrick99

I have found that after watching Fox's recent very high bitrate releases with their superlative PQ, such as Mr. Brooks, Silver Surfer, Prison Break, Die Hard 4, and Man on Fire, I really almost can't watch the slightly lower bitrate releases from other studios like Sony and Disney that used to look good to me.

Am I the only one who's having this problem?

I haven't had a chance to see any of these on Blu yet, but what you're saying makes me very excited for Hitman on Blu (which I think is the next new Fox title on the way).

Originally Posted by patrick99

The last time I actually went to the movies I couldn't believe how soft the picture looked.

I generally agree, although the last time I went (last week), I saw I am Legend. I was amazed and how crisp the image looked on closeup shots of Will. Made me very excited for the Blu which most likely will look better. And seeing as how Warner is leaving features off of the HD-DVD, the transfer shouldn't be as tainted by having an HD-DVD release too.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Since the hiatus Fox has released outstanding release after outstanding release. High bitrate AVC looks incredible. They are topping even Disney now for picture quality on their recent releases. If the Fox compressionists are reading this, keep up the good work.

Yes, indeed.

[dobyblue]

Panasonic are doing the encodes for Fox and Disney.

If you think they're lowering the bit rates for Disney and not Fox, you're mistaken.

Watch the Tesla lightning scene from The Prestige and see if you think it's not high bitrate.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Panasonic are doing the encodes for Fox and Disney.

If you think they're lowering the bit rates for Disney and not Fox, you're mistaken.

Watch the Tesla lightning scene from The Prestige and see if you think it's not high bitrate.

I recognize that some Disney releases contain some high bitrate scenes. POTC3 obviously contains some scenes like that. But POTC3 also contains many scenes with much lower bitrates, and some of those scenes I think suffer from that. The Fox releases I've mentioned seem to have a much more consistent use of high bitrates, although Silver Surfer could have looked better in some of the scenes where the bitrate is only in the 20's. Have you watched Disney's Game Plan? I couldn't force myself to watch very much of it, both because of the PQ and the subject, but I thought the PQ was quite average, and the bitrates were in the 20's.

[Maxell]

Disney and the newer Fox titles beat out many in PQ.