Is HD DVD an immoral product?

[claytonpc]

I saw the super bowl HD-DVD commercial and I thought to myself, "Boy, I hope people don't get fooled into buying that format."

Then I had another thought: I think a commercial for a product that is doomed is nothing more than immoral. I quit a job that wanted me to improve the company website for the purpose to draw in investors. The company was not making money and had a flawed business model. Basically, the company was existing on investor's investments and they knew it. I said that it was immoral to take people’s money with no intension to give them back a return. The execs just wanted another month’s payroll., so I quit. This HD-DVD commercial is no different. They are looking for people with no inside knowledge and invest in a format that will lose to blu-ray. I bet the HD-DVD people are laughing all the way to the bank.

[SpaceDog]

Business and corporations do not have morals in the first place. They are non-human entities. The sucky part is that nations like the US have granted them rights that are similar to or greater than that of living, breathing individuals.

[atrofast]

Immoral maybe, unethical most likely. At this point I think Toshiba is just trying to cover their losses, since their HD DVD division has already lost a lot of money. No objective person would still think there was a chance of HD DVD winning this war, thus we will have to look to other explanations.

[CptGreedle]

immoral? Not for a corporation. On the other hand, it IS stupid and mean.

Besides, with the limited release of the ad, and the SD quality, and the fact that it was an old commercial, I don't think anyone will be that hyped to go out and buy HD DVD.

[juanleche]

I think I missed the commercials
All I say was a commercial for the bargain bin and clearance isles of certain retailers

[pitabun]

Originally Posted by claytonpc

I saw the super bowl HD-DVD commercial and I thought to myself, "Boy, I hope people don't get fooled into buying that format."

Then I had another thought: I think a commercial for a product that is doomed is nothing more than immoral. I quit a job that wanted me to improve the company website for the purpose to draw in investors. The company was not making money and had a flawed business model. Basically, the company was existing on investor's investments and they knew it. I said that it was immoral to take people’s money with no intension to give them back a return. The execs just wanted another month’s payroll., so I quit. This HD-DVD commercial is no different. They are looking for people with no inside knowledge and invest in a format that will lose to blu-ray. I bet the HD-DVD people are laughing all the way to the bank.

Sounds like Enron. Saw the movie this weekend

[Blubaru]

I’d have to say yes. Toshiba will keep HD-DVD on the market till Blu-ray dies(at least 10 years) simply to ensure that Blu-ray stays a niche product and never truly succeeds.

Toshiba’s stock holders or decision makes seem to have little or no interest in stopping HD-DVD production. In fact, most seem heppy to keep it going.

They only group that could put an end to this war is the B&M retailers. Even they seem happy with keeping HD-DVD alive and kicking.

My local Best Buy’s recently took down a number of their Blu-ray demo units and put up HD-DVD demo units. It was 3 Blu-ray players and a combo unit. Now it’s 2 HD-DVD players and one Blu-ray player and a combo unit.

They have also scaled down their Blu-ray movie section and enlarged the HD-DVD section.

The fact is that they are more than willing to try and trick people into giving away their money for a product that they know is obsolete.

That by itself is immoral

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Immoral...I always thought Microshiba wereEVIL! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[WickyWoo]

Toshiba’s stock holders or decision makes seem to have little or no interest in stopping HD-DVD production. In fact, most seem heppy to keep it going.


They only group that could put an end to this war is the B&M retailers. Even they seem happy with keeping HD-DVD alive and kicking.

My local Best Buy’s recently took down a number of their Blu-ray demo units and put up HD-DVD demo units. It was 3 Blu-ray players and a combo unit. Now it’s 2 HD-DVD players and one Blu-ray player and a combo unit.

They have also scaled down their Blu-ray movie section and enlarged the HD-DVD section.

Endcap displays are paid for

As far as the sclaing of the Blu/HD section, do you live in San Francisco? That's a huge HD DVD market cause it's full of techies (aka early adopters)

[Blubaru]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Endcap displays are paid for

As far as the sclaing of the Blu/HD section, do you live in San Francisco? That's a huge HD DVD market cause it's full of techies (aka early adopters)

I live near D.C.

Retailers have a choice in what they show and do in their stores. They don't have to take Toshiba's endcap money. The only thing it does is help confuse the consumer.

They should just send their players back to Toshiba instead of selling them to unsuspecting customers. Sometimes it seems like the retailers are just as immoral as Toshiba
.

[mightypen]

Immoral? Unethical?

The duty Toshiba owes is to its shareholders and employees, no one else. (I am not one, I think, shareholder-I know I'm not an employee )

To attribute any sense of morality to a multi-national corporation is a fool's errand, especially in this high def war. Too many dirty hands involved on all sides.

[atrofast]

Originally Posted by mightypen

Immoral? Unethical?

The duty Toshiba owes is to its shareholders and employees, no one else. (I am not one, I think, shareholder-I know I'm not an employee )

To attribute any sense of morality to a multi-national corporation is a fool's errand, especially in this high def war. Too many dirty hands involved on all sides.

I disagree. Toshiba owes duty to all stakeholders, which includes customers. By selling them a product that will become obsolete in the near future, yet touting it as the future they are being insincere. This I would qualify as unethical behaviour, even in business.

[bhampton]

Hey,

The action these days is an attempt to get the last players off the shelf and avoid the costs of recycling them.

If they can market them as up-converting players that play a handfull of specialty discs as well then so be it.

Recycling them takes it's toll on the environment. Better they should con some buyers into taking them home. (We can only hope the owners eventually recycle the players instead of just trying to dump them in the garbage where they belong which is not legal in most places.)

I see only efforts to move out existing product. Toshiba already produces the inner workings of the PS3 the worlds best selling Blu Ray player so I think they are just trying to dump HD DVD which is completely understand-able.

Just be glad you weren't fooled. The sad part is the suckers who bought it thought they were saving money and making a good decision. The $99 players may have in many cases represented large investment for some of the buyers. It's just plain sad.

-Brian

[mightypen]

Originally Posted by atrofast

I disagree. Toshiba owes duty to all stakeholders, which includes customers. By selling them a product that will become obsolete in the near future, yet touting it as the future they are being insincere. This I would qualify as unethical behaviour, even in business.

You seem to have an untenably high standard for business. New movies are still being released for HD, after paramount and universal bolt, then your point will have more substance.

Regardless, the machine won't truly be obsolete until after the dvd is dead. Whether it is used to its full capability, obviously it won't, has no bearing upon its obsolescence, very much unlike previous transitions, the predecessor media can still be read by it.

[Blubaru]

Originally Posted by mightypen

Immoral? Unethical?

The duty Toshiba owes is to its shareholders and employees, no one else. (I am not one, I think, shareholder-I know I'm not an employee )

To attribute any sense of morality to a multi-national corporation is a fool's errand, especially in this high def war. Too many dirty hands involved on all sides.

True. It’s job is to make money for it’s shareholders.

I don’t see how embarking on a useless unprofitable venture does that. Toshiba has always know that HD DVD has stood little or no chance of succeeding. It’s always been a waste of money.

Now they’re going full steam ahead on this pathetic format even though they know that the format war is over. The only thing that’s going to do is lose money for the shareholders/company and screw the poor Joe that buy’s into the format.

I’d have to say that’s unethical and immoral.

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Endcap displays are paid for

As far as the sclaing of the Blu/HD section, do you live in San Francisco? That's a huge HD DVD market cause it's full of techies (aka early adopters)

I live in the Bay Area(Hercules).
If anyone goes to the BestBuy in Pinole(Fitzgerald Drive) and looks at the BD/HD DVD disc sections, they have about the same rack space.

BUT!!!
If you are looking at the Blu-ray Discs, and turn 90 degrees left, a pretty, 50+" Sony HDTV with the Blu-ray demo running on the TV section's endcap.
Ya really can't miss it.
Several Blu players in the isles of the TV section there running and connected to various HDTVs.
Guess they are wanting to showoff what the screens are actually capable of - run them puppies up with a Blu-ray player!

So far, everytime *I* go into this BB, the occasional person is looking at HD DVD, several people are looking over the BDs.
Blu is alive and well here in my area.

Next time I go, I'll snap a few pics for you guys.

[daringdogcow]

Originally Posted by claytonpc

Then I had another thought: I think a commercial for a product that is doomed is nothing more than immoral.

If Toshiba didn't air the Super Bowl ad, it wouldn't be operating in the best interest of its investors, who simply want to retire with financial security. So, Toshiba would be 'immoral' no matter what it does. This is why firms stress efficiency over equity.

[Sylin]

Amongst Toshiba shareholders there is a GREAT deal of dissent. Despite sales of HD-DVD players and movies pretty much rebounding from the Warner announcement (at least back to where they were... still not good), their stock is volatile right now. And with the media and the consumer electronics industry rallying around Blu and preemptively announcing the downfall of HD-DVD, it won't improve... ever.

But Toshiba is doing the right thing by their shareholders: sell through your inventory and recoup losses. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing, and a TON of bad press and stock downturns if they were to, say, issue a recall or publicly terminate the product.

Make no mistake--with no new players announced and lack of marketing beyond the "fire sale" we've seen over the last 3 weeks, you can effectively consider HD-DVD in "consumer electronics hospice". Toshiba would rather have it die slowly and quietly, than with a lot of pomp and circumstance.

[tron3]

I just started a new thread located in "off topic". I believe this has simply become personal. PERIOD.


Take a look.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=35506

[york weir]

There is a lot at stake so they want their piece of the pie or at least to keep DVD strong.

Paramount taking the incentives to go exclusive and Warner preaching neutrality and then dumping HD DVD was immoral.