Upgrading Suggestions (Polk, EMP, Axiom, Etc.)

[Trux]

Hi everyone! I am somewhat of a novice when it comes to home theater systems but I truly enjoy piecing together a quality sound system without completely breaking the bank. I really appreciate "bang for the buck" equipment. I have been fighting the upgraditis bug for some time but I fear I may lose that fight soon.

I'm contemplating upgrading my 5.1 home theater's Polk Audio speakers to some EMP Teks. I am getting ready to move and my new movie room is about 26X16 with standard 8 foot ceilings. Along with upgrading my speakers, I'm hoping to get a projector with either a 106 or 120 inch motorized screen.

I currently have Polk Monitor 60s for my front mains, Polk Monitor 50s for my rears and a CS1 for my center all being powered by a Pioneer VSX-1120 receiver. I also have an SVS PC12-NSD for my sub which I love. I am tempted to upgrade to EMP E55Tis for my front mains and a EMP E56Ci for my center. I take it I would notice a substantial difference in the sound quality when comparing my current Polks to the EMPs I am considering? I just want to make sure that if I spend the money that I'm going to hear a considerable improvement between the sets of speakers. If I were to purchase the EMPs, would my SVS sub work well with those or would I need to consider the SVS PC12-Plus? Is my Pioneer VSX-1120 sufficient in pushing the EMPs?

With those questions asked, I am having trouble deciding on my surrounds. What are the general feelings on the EMP E55WIs? Would those be better than my Polk Monitor 50s that I'm currently using as surrounds? I have been considering ceiling mounting my rear speakers. Is that an option with the E55WIs or are they strictly for wall mounting only? Would I be best with sticking with EMP for my surrounds or could I go a different route?

I have to appease my fiance so the better looking the surrounds the better. I decided I would rather fight the battle of having her accept the larger cabinets of the E55Tis and E56Ci and give in a little when it came to the surrounds. While the E55WIs aren't ugly, I don't know how well they would blend in if mounted from the ceiling. With that said, I'm not quite sure what other speakers would play well with the EMPs up front. I have looked into the Axiom QS8 v3 and ordering them in all white. I feel those might blend in better than the E55WIs but would they work well paired with the other EMPs? I know some don't care for Axiom but how are the QS8 v3s for surrounds? My main issue with that route is that I'll likely pay around $300 more for the white Axioms (with 2 $60 ceiling mounts) as I would with the E55Tis.

The only other route I have looked in to is in-ceiling speakers. Are there some that would go well with the EMPs up front? The Speakercraft AIM8 was one I've run across but wasn't sure how well it would sound with the EMPs. What would you all recommend regarding the surrounds?

Does anyone know how often EMP has B-stock available in the E55Ti or the E56Ci? It appears that they currently don't have B-stock available in any of their models or finishes.

If you feel the EMPs aren't the way to go, are there any other speakers for around the same price of the EMPs that I may be overlooking? I guess I would like to keep the entire speaker purchase under $2,000 and the closer to $1,500 the better. Is there something that would offer a significant upgrade from my current Polk setup for that price range?

I apologize for being so long winded. Any insight you all may have is greatly appreciated!

[Kali157]

Hey Trux,

I went from some Polk TSi towers to the Emptek E5Ti (the E55Ti was not out yet), and I found it to be a noticeable improvement. Mids and highs were an improvement. I remember vocals especially came in more neutral and natural than the Polks who were a bit warm and laid back. I do also remember thinking that the Polks seemed to go a little bit deeper in the bass department, but I still liked the mid bass of the Empteks. If you are running a sub, the low end extension deficiency of the Empteks to the Polks will not be so noticeable (I crossed the Empteks at 70Hz). And yes, your SVS sub should be a good match. It is typically accepted that subs and speakers do not have to timber match.

I did return the E5Ci (again the E56Ci was not available yet) b/c of a poor off axis response: if I sat anywhere but the center, I can hear a drop off of detail from dialogue. But this issue is due to the M-T-M design. With the offset design of the E56Ci, you will probably not run into this issue.

I did not get the Emptek bipole surround since, again, it was not out yet. Funny enough, I did get the Axiom QS8 which I directly compared with the Aperion 5DB. I chose the QS8s. You know about the ceiling mounts, if you look in my gallery, I made that mount from parts from Home Depot and a metal speaker mount from Monoprice. I think you can make a pair for under $20. Let me know if you need the parts list... though I think it is there somewhere.

Anyway, I don't wanna tell you that you will LOVE the Empteks. People's tastes differ. The good news is (in case you didn't know) is that Emptek will pay for the return shipping if you don't like them. I can tell you that both of the friends I urged to give Emptek a try have enjoyed them. One was significant even a down grade from her current speakers (price wise). I have a 3rd one in their 30 day trial as we speak.

[Kali157]

Oh and Emptek has B-stock sporadically and the items are a bit random. They actually just had a Red Burl overstock clearance of the E5Tis for a ridiculous price of $250/pair. Anyway, I would call them. You never know.

[callas01]

any reason you dont go out and audition some speakers?

Paradigm, PSB, Monitor Audio, B&W, Def Tech.... should be easy brands to audition.

[Trux]

Thanks Kali for your input! I really appreciate it. That's interesting that you decided to go with the Axiom QS8s for your surrounds. I take it that you are still pleased with that decision and that they sound good paired with the EMPs? I was shocked to see that Axiom was charging $60 A PIECE for those ceiling mounts. That alone was almost a deal breaker for me with the Axioms.

I took a look a your photo gallery. I really like the setup you have there. The EMPs look very nice up front. I believe I actually have a similar plasma to yours as well. I may have missed it but I did not see the parts list for your custom Axiom mounts. I really like how those turned out. I may not have mine drop quite as far but they look very nice not to mention a major saving compared to what Axiom is charging for their mounts. Is it better to have them mounted to the sides of the primary seating area as opposed to more in the corners and then angled inward? If you don't mind, could you please provide a parts list for your mounts?

I noticed you have a Emotiva amp. I take it you are pleased with it? I was thinking down the road of possibly adding one to my setup. Could you hear a significant difference once adding it? Was it difficult to install with your existing setup? Would you recommend an XPA-3 just for the front three speakers or getting a XPA-5 and including the surrounds on the amp?

My fiance has a small vinyl collection. I take it you are pleased with the sound the EMPs produce when listening to vinyl? Are there any reasonably priced players that you would recommend?

Again, thank you for the valuable information. I will definitely take all of what you said into account when trying to make a decision.

If anyone else has some insight regarding my original post, please feel free to share. I'd love to hear other opinions as well.

[callas01]

You can look at the Rega RP1 and Pro-ject Debute Carbon TTs, great entry level TTs. I have the prior Debute and like it for my small vinyl collection.

[Trux]

Originally Posted by callas01

any reason you dont go out and audition some speakers?

Paradigm, PSB, Monitor Audio, B&W, Def Tech.... should be easy brands to audition.

I honestly wasn't quite sure of where to start looking. I don't really know of any places in my area that carries the higher end brands. I certainly wouldn't be against auditioning some other brands in order to get a better comparison. I don't have a super keen ear like many audiophiles but I'm sure I could appreciate something that reproduces some nice, clean sound.

My main concern with some of those higher end brands was that I was going to have trouble sticking to my budget if I were to purchase 5 speakers. I've done a little research on Paradigm and really liked what I read but they seemed to have a higher price point. I'll have to take a closer look at some of the brands you mentioned.

[Trux]

Originally Posted by callas01

You can look at the Rega RP1 and Pro-ject Debute Carbon TTs, great entry level TTs. I have the prior Debute and like it for my small vinyl collection.

Great! I'll look into those. Thanks for the suggestions.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Trux

I honestly wasn't quite sure of where to start looking. I don't really know of any places in my area that carries the higher end brands. I certainly wouldn't be against auditioning some other brands in order to get a better comparison. I don't have a super keen ear like many audiophiles but I'm sure I could appreciate something that reproduces some nice, clean sound.

My main concern with some of those higher end brands was that I was going to have trouble sticking to my budget if I were to purchase 5 speakers. I've done a little research on Paradigm and really liked what I read but they seemed to have a higher price point. I'll have to take a closer look at some of the brands you mentioned.

where do you live, Ill see if I can help you find some dealers near you where you can go.

[enricoclaudio]

Ascend Acoustic Sierra-1 Fronts, Ascend Acoustic Sierra-1 Center and Ascend Acoustic CBM-170 SURR: Total cost $1438!!!

[Trux]

Originally Posted by callas01

where do you live, Ill see if I can help you find some dealers near you where you can go.

I'm in Oklahoma City, OK.

[Trux]

Enrico,

From everything I've read, it sounds like the Ascend speakers are suppose to be very good. I would really prefer to have some towers for the front left and right though and unfortunately the Ascend towers are pushing $2,000. If I were to manage to convince myself otherwise, I would certainly consider the Ascends for that price. Thanks for the suggestion!

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by Trux

I'm in Oklahoma City, OK.

Closest Dealer that sells Paradigm non Signature is in Edmond 15 miles drive
http://www.audiomidwest.com/

NO B&W HT specialist in Oklahoma, only in Kansas, they have the apple store selling B&W personal audio devices similar to Ipods

No Def Tech either in Oklahoma city.

PSB has a dealer in Edmond also.
http://weatherstv.com/

[Trux]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Closest Dealer that sells Paradigm non reference nor Signature is in Edmond and 62 miles from Oklahoma city, that's a real PITA.

NO B&W HT specialist in Oklahoma, only in Kansas, they have the apple store selling B&W personal audio devices similar to Ipods

No Def Tech either in Oklahoma city.

Man each of those 3 manufacturers have more than 1 dealer in the Tulsa area.

Wow, the Oklahoma City area certainly seems to be lacking in quality home theater dealers. I was afraid I was going to have that problem when looking to audition some speakers. I guess I can plan a weekend drive to Tulsa at some point. Thanks for checking on that for me.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Trux

Wow, the Oklahoma City area certainly seems to be lacking in quality home theater dealers. I was afraid I was going to have that problem when looking to audition some speakers. I guess I can plan a weekend drive to Tulsa at some point. Thanks for checking on that for me.

check your local best buys, you might have one near you that has b&w, Def Tech and Energy speakers.

here you go heres one that looks like they have the Energys, Def Techs on hand and B&Ws coming soon.
QUAIL SPRINGS OK
2135 W MEMORIAL RD ,
OKLAHOMA CITY , OK 73134

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by Trux

Thanks Kali for your input! I really appreciate it. That's interesting that you decided to go with the Axiom QS8s for your surrounds. I take it that you are still pleased with that decision and that they sound good paired with the EMPs? I was shocked to see that Axiom was charging $60 A PIECE for those ceiling mounts. That alone was almost a deal breaker for me with the Axioms.

I took a look a your photo gallery. I really like the setup you have there. The EMPs look very nice up front. I believe I actually have a similar plasma to yours as well. I may have missed it but I did not see the parts list for your custom Axiom mounts. I really like how those turned out. I may not have mine drop quite as far but they look very nice not to mention a major saving compared to what Axiom is charging for their mounts. Is it better to have them mounted to the sides of the primary seating area as opposed to more in the corners and then angled inward? If you don't mind, could you please provide a parts list for your mounts?

I noticed you have a Emotiva amp. I take it you are pleased with it? I was thinking down the road of possibly adding one to my setup. Could you hear a significant difference once adding it? Was it difficult to install with your existing setup? Would you recommend an XPA-3 just for the front three speakers or getting a XPA-5 and including the surrounds on the amp?

My fiance has a small vinyl collection. I take it you are pleased with the sound the EMPs produce when listening to vinyl? Are there any reasonably priced players that you would recommend?

Again, thank you for the valuable information. I will definitely take all of what you said into account when trying to make a decision.

If anyone else has some insight regarding my original post, please feel free to share. I'd love to hear other opinions as well.

Actually, my gallery isn't updated. After a year long search for a front stage (auditioned as many speakers and as many times as I can), I upgraded to the Aperion Verus Grand Towers and Center. You can read a bit about the final stages of my search in the Aperion thread if you wish. But the level of my speaker finalists (Sonus Faber Liuto $5500 + tax, Sonus Faber Cremona M $11K + tax, and Aperion Verus Grand $1899 shipped) should be a compliment to the Empteks they replaced. Okay, well the Aperions are a bargain.

Speaking of which, I would also suggest the Aperion Verus Forte line. The fronts and center would be around $1400 shipped. Call the company, and they occasionally have B-stock for a discount. I got my Verus Grand Towers for around $1500 shipped and it retained the trial period, full warranty, and even the trade up feature. The Fortes use the same tweeter and similar other drivers to the Grands. Like the Empteks, they carry a 30 day trial where Aperion will pay for the return shipping if you decide against keeping them. Like Emptek, I have utilized this free return feature and the company makes it as painless as possible.

Aperion also has a Trade Up program which is unique to the industry (at least I have never seen it anywhere else). If you want to trade your speakers for a higher model or a newer released line within a year, Aperion will give you the full value of what you paid for your speakers towards the upgrade. Again, I utilized this feature when I traded my 6C center for the Verus Grand center. The price of the 6C had dropped(clearance) yet they gave me credit for my original purchase price.

Now for the surround speaker placement, I think a stickie on the topic from our resident expert should be more helpful. Actually, I encourage you to go through all the stickies in the "Audio" section. There is a wealth of info in there... and it is free. Post here if you have more questions after reading the stickie.

As for the the DIY surround mounts, here are the parts list from the ceiling down to the speaker(doing this from memory since I am out of town): 5-6 inch round metal wall plate, 1/2 inch metal threaded pipe flange, 1/2 inch threaded metal pipe (mine is 2.5 feet I think... speakers are a little over 3 feet above ear level), 1/2 to 1/4 metal threaded reducer, and the Monoprice metal speaker mount. The flange is screwed past the metal wall plate into a stud in the ceiling. The wall plate is just to cover a whole where I fished the wire through and to spread the contact of the flange a little bit.

For the Emotiva amp, installation was easy, though your receiver needs to have some pre-outs. They did make an audible difference for my Emptek's and now for my Aperion. It will make a difference depending on your speakers and the type of AVR you have. I tested to see (or hear) if my QS8s need an amp. I disconnected all other speakers except the surrounds and played surround intensive scenes (like Saving Pvt Ryan beach landing) switching w/ just the receiver and with the amp. I could not hear an improvement that justifies purchasing an external amp for those surrounds.

One of the main advantages of a more expensive AVR is the power supply: more expensive receivers typically just have better amps. The way I look at it, the receiver is of equipment that you will always need to change to keep up with technology changes. This is unlike a good speaker. As an example, if you have a receiver without HDMI, it is very difficult to get lossless sound and 1080P video. So putting serious money for a quality receiver seems like a waste to me. Instead of dropping $2k on a receiver, I spent $350 for my Marantz SR5005 w/ all the connections I need, and I supplement the receiver's deficiencies (compared to the $2K receiver) with external equipment. To match or best the power, get an external amp. To match or best the sub calibration, get an external sub EQ. To match or best the DAC, get an external DAC. So when a new format/connection/etc comes out necessitating a receiver upgrade, I only have to upgrade my $350 Marantz to a comparable receiver while carrying over the external units. If I bought a $2k receiver, I lose ALL those components my $2k bought me that do not need to be replaced.

Besides the audible difference, that is the benefit of an external amp to me. Also, Emotiva amps are competitively priced.

As for vinyl, I would first warn that it is an expensive medium to get involved in. This is the largest hurdle I my friend's face when they want to try vinyl. It is already difficult to convince 30 yr olds to listen to vinyl (okay, I fell into this group). Anyway, I would say be prepared to spend at least $500 for a TT, cart, preamp, and cleaning supplies. Going the cheap route will only create disappointment. If you are willing to invest in the medium, I would suggest the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon as it includes a very good cart.

Wow that was a long post. Work travel sucks. I am so glad I am heading home this week. Whooo hooo.

[braaaaay]

try to audition paradigm monitor speakers. I went from Polk Tsi to Paradigm monitor s7 fronts, wife and I notice a big improvement in midrange and highs. You can still use your old polks as surrounds like what i did to mine.

[jsr]

You're overly concerned with the rears matching the fronts. Its rare that you'll run into scenarios where the sound will sweep from front to rear and you hear a big sonic difference. You can keep your existing rears to save cost if you'd like, but it sounds like upgrading rears is partially for WAF (something smaller and less obtrusive).
Emptek gives a free return trial for their E55Ti towers and center, so it costs you nothing to give the a shot in your listening room. Remember when auditioning speakers at other locations, they may not sound the same as your home/room. Auditioning at home is best. Ascend has a great rep. Too bad you weren't local in san Diego area to stop by their facility to audition. I really want to audition their Sierra towers with the RAALs, I love ribbon tweeters. But I think Emp has the prettiest cabinets for the price.

[sonic_debauchery]

What about aperion audio grand versus?

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...67,28,802.aspx

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by Trux

Wow, the Oklahoma City area certainly seems to be lacking in quality home theater dealers. I was afraid I was going to have that problem when looking to audition some speakers. I guess I can plan a weekend drive to Tulsa at some point. Thanks for checking on that for me.

Edited my post found some dealers in you area. look again i think edmond is close to you isn't it?