The future of Audio for Music Lovers?

[JimPullan]

Many audiophiles who truly enjoy music have weathered through, enjoying, even today their LP's, then enjoying SA-CD and DVD-Audio. Now, with the advent of Blu-ray Disc technology, what can we expect? True PCM Uncompressed multi-channel Music and Concerts? The Player is here and the technology to reproduce a rich, live experience. What do you see on the horizon? or hope for? [Jim]

[Beta Man]

You can make a 12.1 system for all I care...... but I'm still gonna build a 2 channel system for my music listening desires......

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

My audiophiles who truly enjoy music have weathered through, enjoying, even today their LP's, then enjoying SA-CD and DVD-Audio. Now, with the advent of Blu-ray Disc technology, what can we expect? True PCM Uncompressed multi-channel Music and Concerts? The Player is here and the technology to reproduce a rich, live experience. What do you see on the horizon? or hope for? [Jim]

We already have that: DVD Audio

Unfortunately it's never really caught on (mainly due to an unresolved fromat war with SACD).

But if Hi-Rez MCH can really take off with BD Audio that's all I need.

Originally Posted by Beta Man

You can make a 12.1 system for all I care...... but I'm still gonna build a 2 channel system for my music listening desires......

Not surprising for somebody who's ashamed to display his BD collection
* just teasing you *

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

You can make a 12.1 system for all I care...... but I'm still gonna build a 2 channel system for my music listening desires......

Care to answer the question? I too enjoy my 2 channel set-up. In fact, I have a laser turntable, which never touches the vinyl. No more clicks and pops, just pure music. [Jim]

[Blaumann]

Yes, i have really high hopes that Blu-ray might at last bring us some widespread highresolution digital music. SACD&DVD-A imo showed, that there is probably no significant market for an high resolution audio only format, as both formats have died a horrible death. I was a vinyl enthusiast for a long time, but never got into these two formats simply because of the lack of titles i would be interested in.

But since we are seeing the highresoltion audio tracks on concert Blu-rays, i am hoping that Blu-ray can bring us that through the back-door, so to speak. Maybe with Blu-ray bringing awareness of the qualtiy of highres music into many homes, we could even see a good number of audio only BD titles outside the audiophile realm. Isn't there even a special "profile" for that, 3.0?

Well, here's hoping.....

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by HDJK

We already have that: DVD Audio

Unfortunately it's never really caught on (mainly due to an unresolved fromat war with SACD).

Format war or not with SACD, I don't think it really mattered. For audio, most people do not have the system to really notice the difference or care. Free MP3s seemed good enough for mass adoption and I just don't think DVD-A or SACD would ever have been more then a niche even on their own. IMO...

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Blaumann

...Isn't there even a special "profile" for that, 3.0?
...

AFAIK there is no special profile needed. It's just a matter of how you author the disc. I actually asked Paidgeek in one of the insiders threads about the ability to use existing tools to author a BD Audio disc just like a DVD Audio, that would start right away but has some pics (or with that amount of space on a BD even video) displayed.

His answer was very promising, something like if it can't be done now they will make it work. Let me see if I can dig it up...

edit: link

His answer is 5 posts down.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by jdc115

Format war or not with SACD, I don't think it really mattered. For audio, most people do not have the system to really notice the difference or care. Free MP3s seemed good enough for mass adoption and I just don't think DVD-A or SACD would ever have been more then a niche even on their own. IMO...

True for stereo. But HTiBs were starting to be sold everywhere at cheap prices and I'm sure a lot of people would have caught on to the MCH discs, even if their ears or systems didn't care about Hi-Rez. But since surround is much more widespread now there is a chance for it now on BD.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by HDJK

AFAIK there is no special profile needed. It's just a matter of how you author the disc. I actually asked Paidgeek in one of the insiders threads about the ability to use existing tools to author a BD Audio disc just like a DVD Audio, that would start right away but has some pics (or with that amount of space on a BD even video) displayed.

His answer was very promising, something like if it can't be done now they will make it work. Let me see if I can dig it up...

edit: link

His answer is 5 posts down.

I believe I also read that Paid mentioned that Profile 3 was a audio only player that wouldn't require to be connected to a monitor to function. But that doesn't mean it will come to market, just that it was planned if there was a market for it.

If anybody can remember maybe you can find otherwise I will look tomorrow (its late here).

[Blaumann]

Originally Posted by HDJK

AFAIK there is no special profile needed. It's just a matter of how you author the disc. I actually asked Paidgeek in one of the insiders threads about the ability to use existing tools to author a BD Audio disc just like a DVD Audio, that would start right away but has some pics (or with that amount of space on a BD even video) displayed.

His answer was very promising, something like if it can't be done now they will make it work. Let me see if I can dig it up...

edit: link

His answer is 5 posts down.

Thank you for the link, very interesting. For now, i am very pleased to see concert Blu-rays with highres audio. It's a start. If we will see normal "studio albums" in a highres version later on, i guess we'll just have to wait how the market develops. I know i would be interested. And as it has been said, there are more and more HTiB systems out there now and imo you don't even need to have a "high end" audio system to hear and appreciate the advantages.

[Beta Man]

I think my SACD is "good enough" it's getting to the point where I won't be able to tell the difference anyways. I could always upgrade my equipment, but then again, I could buy that new vehicle my wife won't let me have........ both are things that just aren't gonna happen!!!!! I haven't maxed out the potential of what I have.... new listening room, better accoustical treatments etc.... so much more to do.

[crackinhedz]

I'm one for the best audio possible...but there is one factor that trumps all quality. That is, the sensitivity of the Human ear.

At a certain point, no real benefit is gained going beyond 96kHz/24 bit sampling (that in itself is debatable though)

I don't know how much better audio can get before our hearing doesn't notice the difference, but if any is possible i am all for it.

[BluRayExplosion]

I've seen research with blind listening that very few people can notice a significant difference beyond 96kHz, but have any studies been done with 32-bit audio? For example would 96/32 provide more advantages than 192/24?

[JimPullan]

I would think that if there is potential here, within Blu-ray, to take audio only to the top, why not? [Jim]

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by BluRayExplosion

For example would 96/32 provide more advantages than 192/24?

from what I have read...192kHz has more potential for distortion than 96kHz.

(and even 96kHz may even be too much...48kHz is plenty enough room and accuracy)


For a deep ass discussion on sampling rates, check this thread out. After reading it the first time through, I thought my head was gonna explode. Very technical discussion. The whole website is filled with audio engineers etc.


...as for 32bit vs.24 ? who knows. Has anything been recorded in 32 yet? past my knowledge.

[Teazle]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ghlight=blu-cd

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ghlight=blu-cd

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

For a deep ass discussion on sampling rates, check this thread out.

Thanks for posting this fascinating link!

Reading through the thread, I'm beginning to wonder if 24/192 PCM really was a mistake after all. Dan Lavry is getting some very weak objections (up to p. 6).

There is so much fuzzy-headed thinking and pure BS in high-end audio it's hard to cut through it all. Like people who tell you to "break in" a solid state amplifier for a few hours, as though you have to put some wear on the tubes, or people who claim they can hear the difference after putting their CD player on top of a sandbag.


Addendum:

PS3 (except 40GB) converts DSD to 24/176.4 PCM. If Lavry is right it this is actually pointless and it would be better to convert to 24/88.2. Nothing in the original sound captured by DSD could be subsequently reproduced by 176.4 as against 88.2; if there's any audible difference it must be because something extraneous has been added in somewhere.

http://www.lavryengineering.com/docu...ing_Theory.pdf

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

from what I have read...192kHz has more potential for distortion than 96kHz.

(and even 96kHz may even be too much...48kHz is plenty enough room and accuracy)


For a deep ass discussion on sampling rates, check this thread out. After reading it the first time through, I thought my head was gonna explode. Very technical discussion. The whole website is filled with audio engineers etc.


...as for 32bit vs.24 ? who knows. Has anything been recorded in 32 yet? past my knowledge.

It's always nice to see people comment on things they actually researched instead of just quoting specs

Dan Lavry is a very intelligent person, so is Nika Aldrich (also on that thread). If someone really wants to get down with digital audio I can highly recommend his book Digital Audio Explained. I haven't finished it yet, because there is a lot of information in there, but it's well worth the effort.

[ManUtd]

I have a small DVD-A/SACD collection and I'm very disappointed that these formats didn't become mainstream. Sure if you're into jazz or classical there are still tons of SACD releases but I want more than just jazz or classical. On BD, if many more live concerts like Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall mastered in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Surround Sound (96kHz/24bit) are released I would be a happy man.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

On BD, if many more live concerts like Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall mastered in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Surround Sound (96kHz/24bit) are released I would be a happy man.

I tried to goad Paidgeek on the subject for music-oriented films but he poured cold water on the suggestion.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=552

I wish others would follow the example of Sony Music with the DMB release.