Sion Sono's 'Guilty of Romance'

[deepbreathsanddeath]

http://www.yesasia.com/global/guilty...0-en/info.html

I don't think the Japanese release is listed on blu-ray.com but I've been interested in obtaining it for ages now for the simple fact that it contains the 144 minute Cannes cut. I've had the Eureka disc since it was released but that, and every other release outside of Japan only contains the 113 minute international cut.

Sion Sono apparently prefers the shorter international cut, and I can see why, but as a collector and out of curiosity, I would love to see and own the original cannes cut. Unfortunately I don't think it comes with English subtitles which is driving me nuts. I don't know how to go about at the very least WATCHING this version with English subs because I can't find any with fan made subs or something.

I know he prefers the shorter cut, and that's the "directors cut" I guess, but I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling. If it was the difference of 1 or 2 minutes, I could try to forget about it, but even then that would bug me. That's not the case though, it's a 31 minute difference which is huge and just because the director prefers the shorter, international cut, doesn't mean I will.

Admittedly, I didn't LOVE Guilty of Romance as a film, but it's one that I'm fascinated by and felt had more potential. I grow to like it more with each viewing. Apparently a lot of footage cut from the Cannes cut was footage of the police investigation, which is actually something I wish that I got to see more of so I feel as though I may actually love it if I get to see this cut.

I doubt this cut will ever be released outside of Japan so I worry that I'll never get to see it and that's an extremely frustrating feeling, you know

[logboy]

it's not a Cannes cut, it's the cut for Japanese release. the argument against the "preferred" shorter cut looks odd when the same version didn't get a release everywhere, and its main market got a longer cut.

the bbfc certified the longer cut for eureka in the uk, and they said they'd release it - but didn't. it's essentially an attempt to take one film and allowing it two independent lives, with release timing & maximising profits hard to do with regions & zones.

for me, the apparent western interest in sono post 'love exposure' is so automated that its a major reason why I despair for western interest in j films... I'd have championed sono at one time, frequently did, but he doesn't deserve to be so obvious as it all now feels lazy and cliched to me. everyone makes their own choices, but in the west, the knowledge of what Japan is making is so narrow it's say to see how it's possible to argue so many pile feeling they've found the best when they know so little about the rest.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by logboy

it's not a Cannes cut, it's the cut for Japanese release. the argument against the "preferred" shorter cut looks odd when the same version didn't get a release everywhere, and its main market got a longer cut.

the bbfc certified the longer cut for eureka in the uk, and they said they'd release it - but didn't. it's essentially an attempt to take one film and allowing it two independent lives, with release timing & maximising profits hard to do with regions & zones.

for me, the apparent western interest in sono post 'love exposure' is so automated that its a major reason why I despair for western interest in j films... I'd have championed sono at one time, frequently did, but he doesn't deserve to be so obvious as it all now feels lazy and cliched to me. everyone makes their own choices, but in the west, the knowledge of what Japan is making is so narrow it's say to see how it's possible to argue so many pile feeling they've found the best when they know so little about the rest.

I take it you're not quite as bummed about this as I am.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

I take it you're not quite as bummed about this as I am.

oh, I was bummed. would have watched it out of interest in the idea of why people are so interested in sono. livid at the tactic of 'international cut', which to my eyes is worse than censorship but easy to portray as not.

[Renophaston]

I just want to say that I'm precisely as bummed as you are, deepbreathsanddeath, and I hope if you or anyone hears word of a way to view this cut in English that you'll let us know.

(And logboy, I've found that even after enjoying Sono's recent films, I'm still interested other Japanese cinema, so if you're worried about me, you can relax. It does suck that Western distributors seem pretty oblivious to Japanese film, and I hope that changes.)

[jdgladw]

Here it says that Olive films is going to release both versions in 2013.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by jdgladw

Here it says that Olive films is going to release both versions in 2013.

Holy mother of god. Day 1. Thankyou so much for that news. This has literally made my week.

[rewak]

Olive, really? The last time they touched Sono they gave a low quality hardsubbed release with no extras, after a proper softsubbed better quality extra packed version had been released elsewhere. If it's the only option it's the only option, but frankly if they're doing it i'd wait and see if another better distributor picks it up first.

[SolidBlu]

Originally Posted by jdgladw

Here it says that Olive films is going to release both versions in 2013.

great news!

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by rewak

Olive, really? The last time they touched Sono they gave a low quality hardsubbed release with no extras, after a proper softsubbed better quality extra packed version had been released elsewhere. If it's the only option it's the only option, but frankly if they're doing it i'd wait and see if another better distributor picks it up first.

I understand your frustration but seriously, it's something. It's most certainly better than having only the 31 minute shorter international version to watch, which is all we do have unless one speaks Japanese.

I own the UK Eureka disc which comes with 40 minutes of special features aswel as an excellent full length audio commentary bringing the special features total to 2 hours and 33 minutes. I'll be hanging onto that because it's a great disc and just grabbing the Olive disc for the 144 minute version of the film.

If special features bother you, grab the UK release too.

[manicsounds]

The 40 minute interview was terrible on the UK disc. It seems someone didn't know how to use the edit button, and so all the flubs, awkward questions are left in. Very unprofessional. (and the interviewer's Japanese was shite)

[logboy]

Originally Posted by Renophaston

I just want to say that I'm precisely as bummed as you are, deepbreathsanddeath, and I hope if you or anyone hears word of a way to view this cut in English that you'll let us know.

(And logboy, I've found that even after enjoying Sono's recent films, I'm still interested other Japanese cinema, so if you're worried about me, you can relax. It does suck that Western distributors seem pretty oblivious to Japanese film, and I hope that changes.)

not worried about anyone, just annoyed that its usually a case of people picking from what's been picked for them... rather than people hunting or stuff they may never get to see (from the hundreds of j films made each year) but would like to show an interest in or appetite for.

I think there has to be a way to avoid the cycle of repetitive & narrow tastes that often seems to result from some lack of dynamism stateside - fans & labels both do it, but fans feel freer to point the finger at licensees & forget about 'themselves', maybe.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

The 40 minute interview was terrible on the UK disc. It seems someone didn't know how to use the edit button, and so all the flubs, awkward questions are left in. Very unprofessional. (and the interviewer's Japanese was shite)

Agree'd. But it's something. The audio commentary was a good listen though.

Originally Posted by logboy

not worried about anyone, just annoyed that its usually a case of people picking from what's been picked for them... rather than people hunting or stuff they may never get to see (from the hundreds of j films made each year) but would like to show an interest in or appetite for.

I think there has to be a way to avoid the cycle of repetitive & narrow tastes that often seems to result from some lack of dynamism stateside - fans & labels both do it, but fans feel freer to point the finger at licensees & forget about 'themselves', maybe.

I get what you mean but I do go out of my way to hunt down things I wouldn't otherwise get to see. I'm only complaining about the 144 minute cut of Guilty of Romance because I don't speak Japanese and there is no English subtitled option.

I'm sorry that people who only see asian cinema that's readily available to them but you're being a little dramatic about it. I only complain when there's asian cinema not available with English subtitles as an option.

Anyway. Again, really good news that Olive Films are releasing the 144 minute cut of Guilty of Romance. Far from the first studio I would like to release it, but it's better than nothing.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

I'm sorry that people who only see asian cinema that's readily available to them but you're being a little dramatic about it. I only complain when there's asian cinema not available with English subtitles as an option.

the I guess you'd also be upset at the hundreds if films japan currently makes each year that don't get released with subtitles? most of its crap by the looks of it, but I find so much that not only doesn't get spoken about, but which looks more inspired that the stuff that seems to generate massive responses (both similar and vastly different to a current. favourite of anyone being in any way vocal about something that's caught their eye) to just follow what's picked out by a few companies.

always hard to argue that there can't be that much good that's missed, but were currently talking something like 500+ films a year versus a few dozen or so that make any subbed appearance - despite downturn in general quality & rules of averages, there's always far more out there not even beginning to get the slightest chance of being seen by anyone... not for festivals, for fans who seek the obscure or whatever. far fewer getting licensed and released outside of Japan, but still a largely-hidden history of a v prolific country goes pretty much unplundered.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by logboy

the I guess you'd also be upset at the hundreds if films japan currently makes each year that don't get released with subtitles? most of its crap by the looks of it, but I find so much that not only doesn't get spoken about, but which looks more inspired that the stuff that seems to generate massive responses (both similar and vastly different to a current. favourite of anyone being in any way vocal about something that's caught their eye) to just follow what's picked out by a few companies.

always hard to argue that there can't be that much good that's missed, but were currently talking something like 500+ films a year versus a few dozen or so that make any subbed appearance - despite downturn in general quality & rules of averages, there's always far more out there not even beginning to get the slightest chance of being seen by anyone... not for festivals, for fans who seek the obscure or whatever. far fewer getting licensed and released outside of Japan, but still a largely-hidden history of a v prolific country goes pretty much unplundered.

Not really. Again, I don't speak any other language but English, so why would I bother going out of my way to find the really unknown titles that never get spoken about and don't get released with English subtitles?

I'm annoyed about this because I already know Sono's work and love it. If I don't know the filmmakers of films and don't know the films then I've got nothing to be obsessively frustrated over

I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff out there I have yet to discover but if I gain interest in someones movie and can't see it, it drives me nuts. Therefore I just don't bother unless it's a movie by an asian director I already like or accidentally stumble across it.

I do go out of my way to find more little known titles but I limit myself so I'm not disappointed if I'm unable to watch them. If there's a lot of great stuff I'm likely missing out on that also comes with English subtitles, please feel free to share them and expand my knowledge. If your rant is quite literally about the hundreds of great asian films made each that don't come with subtitles, what on earth is all of this about?

No offence, but you're coming off as kind of an ass. I don't know if you meant that, but you are. You're coming off as a mean spirited know-it-all that looks down on other people who dare call themselves film buffs when they don't know anywhere near as much as you do in a certain area of cinema. And worse even still, you're coming off as the type of foreign film buff who speaks another language, gets to enjoy MUCH more than those who don't, and then, again, look down on people who claim to love foreign cinema but have only see what's easier to obtain due to what may be subtitled and what isn't.

News flash: I'm 20 years old. I've got a lot to learn and a lot to see. I don't pretend like I have seen things I haven't for the sake of seeming like a seasoned film buff. I've seen a fair bit but as we both know, there's always A LOT more out there to discover than we realise, and I love that. I look forward to expanding my knowledge of cinema both English spoken and Foreign and I enjoy talking to people who are very knowledgable in area's I am not. I've always been fond of learning. Provided the person teaching me new things is enjoying the experience equally and doing so for the sake of enjoying sharing their knowledge and bettering the person they're teachings life, and not just doing it so they can boast about everything they know.

So again, if you've got fantastic film titles you'd wholeheartedly recommend, feel free to share them because quite frankly my patience with your snarky attitude is wearing thin.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

Not really. Again, I don't speak any other language but English, so why would I bother going out of my way to find the really unknown titles that never get spoken about and don't get released with English subtitles?

I'm annoyed about this because I already know Sono's work and love it. If I don't know the filmmakers of films and don't know the films then I've got nothing to be obsessively frustrated over

I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff out there I have yet to discover but if I gain interest in someones movie and can't see it, it drives me nuts. Therefore I just don't bother unless it's a movie by an asian director I already like or accidentally stumble across it.

I do go out of my way to find more little known titles but I limit myself so I'm not disappointed if I'm unable to watch them. If there's a lot of great stuff I'm likely missing out on that also comes with English subtitles, please feel free to share them and expand my knowledge. If your rant is quite literally about the hundreds of great asian films made each that don't come with subtitles, what on earth is all of this about?

there's so much not subbed that the journey to get them released begins with with showing an interest in what's out there that's available to be subbed. it does for anyone, but, more so with fans, as its the culture within the buyers & viewers that represents where the scene goes over the years as they have the buying power & will finance its continuation.

I'm 40 this year. I don't speak Japanese. can use the internet to find whats out there; its surprisingly simple & with about five websites I could outline how you can manage to follow a more realistic picture (that is, more films that Japan makes) which would highlight how odd it is to visit forums & blogs or news sites for pointers. I don't see much that's not released on DVD, but I do get some screeners & there's always a certain amount that doesn't get subbed - about 95% of it, as I say. I don't even really want to be thought of as a film fan, as these days they're prone to believing what's been put in front of them has been selected as the best... the consideration for the selection process behind anyone's choices & appreciation for the dangerous retreading of the same old narrow view of the overall picture is pretty poor, on the whole. not saying you've not considered your interest, just asking everyone to be aware they made need to question a choice when its an obvious easy one - were talking about a culture so remote, it works primarily in providing a cultural contrast rather than in a direct manner.

my gripe with sono isn't that people like it. I don't like it, but did, and I can see why people do - outside of what's in the films, nudity & violence, I think there's a reliance upon easily-grasped & widely-known as key indicators of a knowledge that's exotic. or obscure, unusual, weird. look beyond these key figures, there's far far more with common characteristics that doesn't get a look-in. why don't people hold it in high regard or have an interest? they're predominantly waiting for it to be given a status or validation, for it to be an expectation. it's then a loss of personal motivation of a more individual journey & more the need to portray being unusual to others with a slight variation in that interest, rather an ability to cope with the variety which an industry as large as japan is capable of supporting, given its prolific, varied & largely hidden history. I find the need for a simplification & apparent ease of something so clearly bordering too difficult or unnecessarily diverse to grasp far more disturbing than any attempt or interest in grasping it.

the point isn't to tell you what you should or shouldn't like or watch, it's to state to any reader that sono us the latest on the receiving end of automated admiration post-'love exposure' rather than sure fire insight. it happens periodically, & I've seen it gradually narrow what western interest in Japanese culture & film is about over the last 13 years that I've been primarily interested In j film for. there's always the odd film that gets subbed that few buy, more territories that sub j films than the USA or UK, but even with the small range we can pick from, we get the few thousand western fans just predominantly gather around what someone managed to make most obvious or happens to be most easily-appreciated, which is odd given the expense required.

in the end, its because I watch trailers for films that I'll never get to see that causes frustration, but its more a frustration with knowing pretty much none of it will because nobody is trying to find ways to show they're willing to support any given film in hope of seeing it as it just sends us in circles. we should have that expectation of ourselves & one another, or were just essentially saying we're only interested because others are & because its easy to like it, rather than exciting as a more adventurous approach.

there's no boast or showing off here. I sit in the shadows & have tried both public & private routes to understand what seems to go on, & I sometimes share it. nobody really runs the show on their own, or could dream of doing so, but the power buyers have is abdicated & few are in control as a result of avoiding facing the challenges of a massive & strange field of interest head-on, so the frustration I show is not only with the apparent acceptance that some companies & sites do / should / will run the show for everyone else but that its assumed its wise to have done so or constructive to avoid not collectively expecting more from on another - perhaps to the extent that when anyone breaks ranks, far too many don't quite get how everyone else has apparently decided it should be working in a narrow perspective for those keen on being seen as interested but unmotivated to take an interests to any extent beyond that.

passion will always make people vulnerable, make them look like an ass if its unusual to have that passion. if it was what we'd expect, we wouldn't find it odd, ever. isn't it unusual to object to it? I think it is.

[Leeon0]

Just watched Guilty of Romance for the third time, and I still can't connect all the dots. Something seems to be missing. I wonder if the 144-min version ends the same way the 113-min one does. If so, there must be something in-between that allows the viewer to draw a clearer line from the beginning of the movie (the discovery of the corpses) to the latter part. It really feels like a truncated movie. I'd be interested in watching how the detective's story unfolds and its relation, if any, to the other two stories. Bummer we couldn't get the whole movie.

If Olive Films does in fact release the full version, I hope the transfer will be decent at the very least. Olive Films titles aren't cheap, and Love Exposure's picture and audio were a notch below mediocre.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by Leeon0

Just watched Guilty of Romance for the third time, and I still can't connect all the dots. Something seems to be missing. I wonder if the 144-min version ends the same way the 113-min one does. If so, there must be something in-between that allows the viewer to draw a clearer line from the beginning of the movie (the discovery of the corpses) to the latter part. It really feels like a truncated movie. I'd be interested in watching how the detective's story unfolds and its relation, if any, to the other two stories. Bummer we couldn't get the whole movie.

If Olive Films does in fact release the full version, I hope the transfer will be decent at the very least. Olive Films titles aren't cheap, and Love Exposure's picture and audio were a notch below mediocre.

Agree'd. I'm sure the 144 minute version will end the same way. As I understand it, it contains a lot more footage of the police investigation. I believe that will help make it more cohesive.

Olive Films' release of Love Exposure wasn't great, that's for sure. The transfer wasn't a notch below mediocre in my opinion. It was decent. I personally went for Third Window Films' release because I prefer the darker saturation. Much more pleasing to the eye, plus it came with like 2 hours of special features Olive didn't bother to include.

I don't even care if Olive Films' blu for Guilty of Romance is just "okay" and contains no special features. If they release it in the 144 minute cut, I'm buying it day 1. In all honesty I would do the same if it was released on DVD only. It's driving me mad haha

[Leeon0]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

I don't even care if Olive Films' blu for Guilty of Romance is just "okay" and contains no special features. If they release it in the 144 minute cut, I'm buying it day 1. In all honesty I would do the same if it was released on DVD only. It's driving me mad haha

The anticipation is also getting to me--so much so that I've considered getting the Japanese version from amazon.co.jp. Pros: It's the full cut, has nice artwork, comes in a black case (that would be a first for me), and contains a 20-page booklet. Cons: no English subtitles, the booklet is written in Japanese (of course), and it's very expensive--over $60 US (price includes the shipping). I never paid that much for a single BD, let alone one without subtitles.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

So glad someone else is sharing my agony with this! I contacted olive films about it but haven't recieved a reply from them yet (it's only been 1 day). Hopefully they will confirm that the 144 minute cut is coming to Blu-ray later this year.