DTS-HD MA bitstream decoder flaw can damage gear...

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by darkpoet25

I hope so as I have an 805. But since the PS3 will do it internally as PCM, would the reciever still have the same problem?

I too have the 805, so assuming the PS3 will decode internally, then I would assume there would be no problem, since the receiver would bypass the IC all together. The issue I don't wan't to run into is my 60 GB crap out on me in a year and a half from now and then my receiver will be out of warranty. That would suck that if the new PS3's at that time don't internally decode DTS-MA and can bitstream in out. Then I would be stuck.

[ryoohki]

I watched countless of DTS HD MA tracks on my Denon 3808 and Never heard a POP, it's cleary and hardware problems...

[Disco_And]

After searching the internet for an hour it doesn’t look like the Onkyo TX-SR875 is affected I just hope it stays that way

[Sonny]

I have 3 Onkyo's & never heard a 'POP'......but I guess that doesn't mean I won't............ Onkyo's gunna write ME a FAT CHECK!!!!

[Vlad44]

LOL

GOD BLESS DENON!

[un4gvn94538]

i read through 14 pages on avs forum.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=43286

it only occurs while bitstreaming dts ma. is a problem when the receiver is trying to decode certain parts of a given movie. theres a list. ps3 users are not affected because the ps3 decodes and sends dts core in lpcm form. not all receivers are affected. through the above link there are other links including for the avs forum where its being discussed extensivly.

[dialog_gvf]

The key post on the AVS thread is from Kris Deering, who confirms the issue. This makes it real and serious.

Gary

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Woody

Then why don't Denon receivers have the issue?

It is a decoder problem, not a SW problem.

Denon uses a different revision of the software.

Originally Posted by wormraper

sorry, I meant to say that the PS3 SOON will have the ability to decode it.

Actually the sony S300 can't decode True HD either And just about every stinking blu ray player that's being announced can play dts-ma. Don't forget that several first gen models of DVD players couldn't play regular DTS at first either. took a bit, now it's shocking to have a dvd player made that couldn't do DTS.

Actually Paidgeek has let us know that a firmware update (silently) allows the 300 to decode TrueHD.

Most DVD players still only do the "DTS Digital Out".

last point I agree with. But it was only one decoder chip. Every company makes ooopses now and again.

When it's not once and again and it's a habit is most troublesome.

Originally Posted by Sonny

I have 3 Onkyo's & never heard a 'POP'......but I guess that doesn't mean I won't............ Onkyo's gunna write ME a FAT CHECK!!!!

No, DTS would. THEY told Onkyo how to design & program the IC.

[HeavyHitter]

So, if we stick to just core DTS tracks, we're good?

Any issues on Pioneer Elites?

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

So, if we stick to just core DTS tracks, we're good?

Any issues on Pioneer Elites?

yes. check the links for a list of receivers/movies/players,etc

[Zipzap713]

Involved Equipment:
Player-receiver
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 705
Panasonic BD30-Yamaha 1800
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 805
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 605
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo Pro PR885

I think this means that flaw only happens when the Panasonic BD30 is connected to the Onkyo/Yamaha receiver. Not sure though.

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by Zipzap713

I think this means that flaw only happens when the Panasonic BD30 is connected to the Onkyo/Yamaha receiver. Not sure though.

no, you have to read all 15 pages on that thread to see whats been happening. other players have been involved. they nailed it down to the chip in the receivers that decode dts ma. dts has made changes to the encoding software and now we have to find out what exactly whcich receivers are affected. not all onyo 605/705/805 are affected and not all yahahas are afftected. it depends on which batch of receivers have the faulty chip installed and what the mfg are going to do about it. been waiting for the new sony 350 this summer to bitstream but i want to find out and take care of this before damage occurs or the warranty runs out.

[FreddieFerric]

I have a Denon 2807 and have experienced several instances of popping through my Polk Audio RM 30's. This has occurred with both DTS and Dolby Digital sources. I always attributed the problem with setting my Infinity Sub too high (gotta get that rumble you know). Nothing has ever been damaged as of yet. Whenever it has happend I just backed the sub down and all was fine. Don't know if this is the same thing or not.

[crackinhedz]

so much for the "Bitstream" vs "Linear PCM" debate.

[dialog_gvf]

^^^ Not really. The argument is still there. These are a programming flaw in the encoder (dangerous levels shouldn't be in the bitstrea) AND the decoder (the decoder should filter out bad results).

There are very few on-player DTS-HD MA decoders. So, how do we know this won't be a problem down the line? Does HDMI carrying of the LPCM prevent this in any way?

We can assume this issue is now known and won't happen again. But, that is ass u me.

Gary

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

I have a Denon 2807 and have experienced several instances of popping through my Polk Audio RM 30's. This has occurred with both DTS and Dolby Digital sources. I always attributed the problem with setting my Infinity Sub too high (gotta get that rumble you know). Nothing has ever been damaged as of yet. Whenever it has happend I just backed the sub down and all was fine. Don't know if this is the same thing or not.

i doubt it. they describe it as a loud shotgun type of a quick explosion that will literally scare the crap out of anyone in the room. the first few pages of the thread describes it.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

so much for the "Bitstream" vs "Linear PCM" debate.

I was kidding.

[Gremal]

AVS is still hugely anti-BD. Even blu-adopters who frequent that forum are strongly biased against it, and they're even more critical of the format now that their beloved HD DVD is dead and buried. Early adoption involves some gliches. I remember when hybrid, multichannel SACDs came from Europe, they would always emit a long burst of digital noise at the end of the disc from the SCD-1. Sony wanted us to send our disc machines in for a chip update, but I never did. It just wasn't that big a deal. It's clear that BD-whiners are intent on blowing out of proportion any glich in the rollout of Blu-ray.

[dialog_gvf]

This is what Kris Deering said about it on AVS:

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Hey Guys,

Thought I would chime in. I have experienced this 3 times now and will say there is no exaggeration at all. Anyone who hasn't experienced it will probably make light of it but the crack has more in common with a high powered rifle or firework going off in your room than a simple pop. All three times it has happened I thought for sure I blew something up in the room. I have had 2 speakers damaged from it, a center channel and a right main. All three times were with DTS-HD MA tracks. The first was the import of Hannibal Rising via the HD-A35, the next was 1408 via the A35 and then the latest being The Golden Compass via the BD30.

The cheap cable thing is not an issue. I am using Nordost HDMI interconnects all around. I am using the Onkyo Pro PR885 processor. Every time it happens it is fully repeatable. The same thing does not happen if I am playing back the DTS core or have it converted to PCM, so my guess is it is in the extension packet.

This is a VERY real problem and anyone that actually experiences will take it quite seriously after they almost **** their pants. If you are playing back and moderately high levels, you WILL KNOW without the slightest doubt that it has happened. Saying it could damage speakers is probably taking it lightly, I would worry about amplifiers as well.

It is real. And it is serious.

Don't wave it off as unimportant simply because you haven't experienced it.

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Gremal

It's clear that BD-whiners are intent on blowing out of proportion any glich in the rollout of Blu-ray.

This is being pointed out as a flaw in general receivers, not BD specifically. I expect if the encoder has generated the bad data and/or the decoder chip, then the same or similar problem would have occured on HD DVD had DTS-HD MA been used on it.

Some may make this an anti-BD thing, but that would be diverting attention from the real problem.

Gary

EDIT: In the end, this hurts DTS-HD MA more than anything else.