Region B release licence - how does it work?

[Hintermann]

A couple of my favourite films that are not yet available on Blu-ray are provisionally being released by small US based companies as Region A. The First is The Swimmer (Grindhouse) and the other Rollerball (Twilight Time)

I was told on these forums that Region B releases are completely independent of Region A. If that is the case, is there a chance that someone like Masters of Cinema or Arrow (or anyone else) might obtain the licence for UK release of these films? Or is there an obligatory time period that they have to wait?

[benricci]

There's always a chance, but it's nearly impossible to say what the deal terms are or who's pursuing home video rights for specific titles in Europe (unless you work for one of those companies or have insider information).

You'll just have to wait and see, or get a region-free player.

[Hintermann]

I do have a region free player. But with all this faffing about by TT (from whom I prefer not to buy unless there is no choice) and the sort of films that Grindhouse usually deal with (I do not want to keep a Grindhouse BD alongside my Criterions, MoC, Kino etc, even if it is that of The Swimmer), I wanted to see if there would be a more local release.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

I was told on these forums that Region B releases are completely independent of Region A. If that is the case, is there a chance that someone like Masters of Cinema or Arrow (or anyone else) might obtain the licence for UK release of these films? Or is there an obligatory time period that they have to wait?

I've read the TT deal lasts x amount of time or until the 3,000 copies sell but if it was the latter, we'd have a few more of their titles released over here. I'd imagine Rollerball might pop up eventually in region B land.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

(I do not want to keep a Grindhouse BD alongside my Criterions, MoC, Kino etc, even if it is that of The Swimmer)

You like a film, you see a decent edition of it, you get it, what does the label have anything to do with it? Keep it in a different corner of the shelf if that bothers you so much

Originally Posted by chip75

I've read the TT deal lasts x amount of time or until the 3,000 copies sell but if it was the latter, we'd have a few more of their titles released over here. I'd imagine Rollerball might pop up eventually in region B land.

TT's rights are typically only for the US. It is quite possible to see a parallel non-US release for films in their catalog, like The Fury from Arrow or the European release of As Good As It Gets by Sony. TT's period of exclusivity in the US will definitely last for x amount of time (5 years I believe is their usual deal), because otherwise people that ponied up 30$ for a mostly bare-bones will be mighty pissed if another edition is released 6 months down the line.

[mattyl149]

I presume that any exclusivity on a Region A deal wouldn't prevent a Region B release at the same time as there could be different rights holders and if titles are region locked then they're not competing against each other

Whether the label releases the film in the UK or licenses it to another company to release is more based on projected sales or whether another label wants to release it, as in when Second Sight and Arrow release MGM titles

[kashif]

In case of old titles and also indie movies there is always a chance that you will get the movie on your specific region but you cant say when it will happen. It can be tomorrow or next month or next year or never. So if you are having a region ABC setup then my suggestion is to buy when its available.

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

It's very unlikely that an indie distributor like Twilight Time would have a globally exclusive deal - I'm sure the rightsholder would be happy to offer one, but a price that wouldn't be worth paying from TT's perspective.

So in theory, and certainly in most cases, there'd be little to stop labels in other territories acquiring the same titles, provided the rights were available to them...

...but there may be very sound commercial reasons why they don't, not least stemming from the fact that the UK Blu-ray market is much smaller than the US one, so titles that are considered viable in the US might be a gamble too far in the UK.

Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if a label like Arrow had at least made enquiries about a title like Rollerball, but I honestly don't know either way.

OK, in that case, can the UK / Euro company that gets the rights the release a previously TT-released film like Rollerball make it Region-free? If they did that they'd have the US market at their disposal and everyone from Buyer 3001 onwards could get it. Theoretically, there would be nothing that TT could do about it and it might set a precedent for the future.

[nitin]

some (possibly all?) of the European Sony releases of TT licensed films like The Way We Were, As Good As It Gets, Sleepless In Seattle, Philadelphia are region free.

Chances are though that if its an indie distributor (eg Arrow or Second Sight) and not a big player like Sony, they will be region locked.

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by nitin

some (possibly all?) of the European Sony releases of TT licensed films like The Way We Were, As Good As It Gets, Sleepless In Seattle, Philadelphia are region free.

Good. That could trump TT's greed in the long run, couldn't it? If the US customers increasingly grow wise to the fact that a title might be available 'over there' a lot cheaper only a few weeks down the line, they might be prepared to wait.

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

It's pretty much inconceivable that a third-party release of a major studio title like Rollerball would be allowed to be region-free. The label wouldn't have any choice in the matter. A single-territory third-party distributor would certainly be ordered to region-lock their releases even if the rightsholder's own ones are region-free.

OK. Forgive if this is a silly question but I am not very techy and so am only asking. Is it possible for a BD release to be apparently region locked but their being the facility of an unadvertised hidden menu feature within the disc which can be used to make it temporarily region free - you know something like the hidden "Easter Eggs" on some DVDs? Such information can then be circulated through the "usual channels" such as these forums.

[Yami]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Is it possible for a BD release to be apparently region locked but their being the facility of an unadvertised hidden menu feature within the disc which can be used to make it temporarily region free - you know something like the hidden "Easter Eggs" on some DVDs? Such information can then be circulated through the "usual channels" such as these forums.

Not if the company releasing it wants to stay in business very long because they'd almost certainly be subject to legal action for breaking their contract.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

The crucial difference here being that Sony owns these titles outright, so the above situation isn't an issue. But, as you say, a single-territory third-party distributor would certainly be ordered to region-lock their releases even if the rightsholder's own ones are region-free.

Yes, but the TT versions are region free too and they could be considered a single-territory third-party distributor.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by ravenus

TT's rights are typically only for the US. It is quite possible to see a parallel non-US release for films in their catalog, like The Fury from Arrow or the European release of As Good As It Gets by Sony.

It's already disappointing that TT limits their releases to the ultra low number of 3000 copies but then they lock down the US market and sell internationally; meaning even fewer copies ultimately make it to the region that they locked down. If it were any other third-party distributor the studios would be crying foul.

Originally Posted by ravenus

TT's period of exclusivity in the US will definitely last for x amount of time (5 years I believe is their usual deal)...

3 years is what has been previously mentioned as the NA exclusivity timeframe.

Originally Posted by ravenus

...because otherwise people that ponied up 30$ for a mostly bare-bones will be mighty pissed if another edition is released 6 months down the line.

If that's true then that's quite sad to prohibit other editions, in essence denying even more people from these movies, just so people can feel good about spending $30 on a release.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I'm not privy to TT's agreements, and I'm not based in the US. But I am privy to various Region B contracts involving major rightsholders, and they make region-locking an absolute contractual condition.

Believe me, small independent labels don't lock their releases voluntarily! Why would they, when they obviously want to sell to as many people as possible?

I'm not disputing your statements but rather noting, that for whatever reason, TT is allowed to not region lock their titles. It would be nice if the other third-party distributors could be allowed to play by those same rules.

In fact, I wish we didn't even have region locking but that's a different discussion all together.

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

In fact, I wish we didn't even have region locking.

Same here. Although it does not affect me directly because I have a Region-Free player, there is an indirect effect IMO. If smaller UK companies are forced to region-lock popular titles, then they may be less inclined to spend money to bring them out knowing that they will not have the large North American market at the other end of the counter. That in turn would mean that the likes of us would have to try and get it from the US and if the title is in the hands of TT or a similar complany, it would mean limited stocks and infated price tags.

Are hardware-hacked Region free BD players less common in the USA than they are over here?

[Hintermann]

OK. To give an example, the Region Free Blu-ray of Zulu (which I have ordered for £7) has got good reviews. I now heard that TT are going to bring out their own version and AFAIK, the main difference is a new score. Why would anyone want to buy it for around £25?

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Are hardware-hacked Region free BD players less common in the USA than they are over here?

I already have a few region free players but I'd say they aren't as easy to come by as over there. It's too bad blu-ray region free mods aren't capable of automatically switching regions or being region all like the DVD region free mods are but then again the BDA made sure that couldn't happen.

[DaveSimonH]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

OK. To give an example, the Region Free Blu-ray of Zulu (which I have ordered for £7) has got good reviews. I now heard that TT are going to bring out their own version and AFAIK, the main difference is a new score. Why would anyone want to buy it for around £25?

DNR on the UK release, it has certainly put me off buying it.