Is 4K a game changer?

[musick]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

I think you mean "as much a game changer as Blu-ray was"

Nope that is not what I meant at all
but since you are interested in trying to correct me let correct myself

It will be as much a game changer as 3D blu-ray was/is

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

Was this article written by the same idiots who said you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p unless you have a 80" TV or more just a few years ago?

Well I forget his name, but he's the guy that also wrote an article about how owning a TV at all is silly, since you can get a digital projector and instantly have a 120" screen projected on the wall.

Those two topics, plus he works for CBS, should be enough for a Google search of his name.

[scorpiontail60]

Originally Posted by 42041

It's all a matter of viewing distance. Fun fact: most movie theaters have 2K projection (and the ones with 4K projection mostly show 2K movies). No one seems to mind.

Oh, I mind. This is one of a few reasons why I haven't been to movie theaters in years.

Occasionally I get a free ticket to a movie through a promotion or something and I still don't want to go even if it's free, for this very reason. Half the time I don't even use free tickets even if it's for something that's actually good. I had a free ticket for Frozen I just let expire so I could watch the 3D Blu-ray on my 3DTV instead. I'm glad I waited.

The last time I've been to the theater was so I could watch The Hobbit @ 48 FPS as it's not going to be released in High Frame Rate format on home video any time soon. Still that wasn't enough for me to put up with the low resolution so for its sequel I just waited for the 3D Blu-ray instead and watched it with motion interpolation on my TV. Motion interpolation is obviously not quite as good as watching the film natively at its high framerate, but that's okay as I don't have to suffer through a theater when I do it that way.

My local theaters all have 2K projectors and they all look like ass. Blu-ray resolution does NOT look good blown up that much on a screen that size. I would much rather wait a few months to watch a movie on Blu-ray on my smaller display and enjoy that higher pixel density than watch it on a theater screen, and that's what I do.

[franken_psycho1990]

Originally Posted by 42041

4K is not DVD, sorry.

I didn't mean it was, I ment that people probably said movie companies wouldn't restore films for DVD. Just as some here are saying they won't restore them for 4k. Rubbish. They will.

[scorpiontail60]

Originally Posted by 42041

That'd only be a sound argument if everyone was in a position to fully benefit from 4K resolution (and, perhaps more importantly, cared). 192khz vs 44.1khz audio is a bigger difference in sampling rate than 44.1khz from 22.1khz, but guess which one makes a huge difference, and which one you can't even hear?

Your argument is flawed, however.

Human vision is greater than human aural acuity. We can judge the quality difference of images far better than we can judge the quality difference of audio.

1920x1080 doesn't even come close to saturating the limits of human vision. 1080p is only 2.1 megapixels. 4K is over 8 megapixels.

This is why high resolution still images still look so much better than HD video.

Now imagine if those high resolution still images were in motion. That's what 4K video is.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

Oh, I mind. This is one of a few reasons why I haven't been to movie theaters in years.

Occasionally I get a free ticket to a movie through a promotion or something and I still don't want to go even if it's free, for this very reason. Half the time I don't even use free tickets even if it's for something that's actually good. I had a free ticket for Frozen I just let expire so I could watch the 3D Blu-ray on my 3DTV instead. I'm glad I waited.

The last time I've been to the theater was so I could watch The Hobbit @ 48 FPS as it's not going to be released ....

How was that? I didn't see it, and was just wondering.

[franken_psycho1990]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Sure, but it will be small market just like 3D has been. You think studios are going to restore/remaster most titles at 4K for 35mm films and 8K for 65/70mm films? The answer is no. It will be limited to titles that they know are big money makers and people will buy no matter what like Bond, Star Wars, Indy, Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit, Disney classics, etc.

I do see your point, But I do think everyone is kinda overacting about only the really known films being released on 4k discs. I think it will eventually be like BD is now.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Pretty much this.

+1

The economy being the way it is, can't support 4K in any reasonable fashion. People are not going to run out for a new, expensive 4K screens, let alone some massive one that would really be a show-off for that kind of resolution. No actual 4K native discs to play. Streaming 4K??? I'm just not impressed. It's as weak a launch as 3D and at a bad time. People have less and less "throw away" cash to spend on one new format after another. For the time being, it's niche at best. Anybody remember DVD-A/SACD? How about Blu-ray Audio.....that doesn't seem to be taking off either.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

Your argument is flawed, however.

Human vision is greater than human aural acuity. We can judge the quality difference of images far better than we can judge the quality difference of audio.

1920x1080 doesn't even come close to saturating the limits of human vision. 1080p is only 2.1 megapixels. 4K is over 8 megapixels.

This is why high resolution still images still look so much better than HD video.

Now imagine if those high resolution still images were in motion. That's what 4K video is.

If 4K is 8 MP, and my camera can take 12 MP...

4K movies would look like junk compared to still images in motion from my camera

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by franken_psycho1990

I do see your point, But I do think everyone is kinda overacting about only the really known films being released on 4k discs. I think it will eventually be like BD is now.

No, it won't. The selection of titles will be far fewer than BD.

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

1920x1080 doesn't even come close to saturating the limits of human vision.

It can, depending on how large the screen is and how far you sit from it. For example, the chart here suggests that if you're sitting 6-7 feet away from a 50 inch screen, then you won't notice a difference between 4K and 2K.

[musick]

LOL even the mod doesn't think it is a game changer

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by Maggot

+1

The economy being the way it is, can't support 4K in any reasonable fashion. People are not going to run out for a new, expensive 4K screens, let alone some massive one that would really be a show-off for that kind of resolution. No actual 4K native discs to play. Streaming 4K??? I'm just not impressed. It's as weak a launch as 3D and at a bad time. People have less and less "throw away" cash to spend on one new format after another. For the time being, it's niche at best. Anybody remember DVD-A/SACD? How about Blu-ray Audio.....that doesn't seem to be taking off either.

4K Blu-Ray at best will probably be in the middle of 2 other niche formats in HD-DVD and Laserdisc. Slightly more popular then the former but barely a quarter of the latter.

[DarknessBDJM]

No, 8K availability will be too close to 4K for the latter to take off. LCD is also such a dated display technology that it won't show off the benefits well enough, but it's cheap and available so it's still in use.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

4K video is an even bigger leap forward in A/Q quality than Blu-ray was. It is 24 times the resolution of standard definition. 1080p is only six times the resolution of SD.

Why do you keep using this flawed and flat out WRONG argument?

I love how you say that 1080p is "only" six times the resolution of SD, yet 4K is four times the resolution of 1080p but it will somehow be "an even bigger leap".

Uh.... HOW may I ask exactly??? Last time I checked (in first grade math), 6 is a bigger number than 4, so if 1080p has 6 times the pixels of SD and 4K has 4 times the pixels of 1080p, then how will 4K be an "even bigger leap"? Please explain this to me. And I'm only talking on a purely technical level (numbers), and not even taking the human factor/diminishing results, which is also very relevant to this discussion.

[franken_psycho1990]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No, it won't. The selection of titles will be far fewer than BD.

I suppose you are a fortune teller now? What ever new format comes (4k it looks like) it will eventually become the norm. VHS did, DVD did and BD did. Tell me why 4k won't? It may not happen over night, But it will happen. What, Do you think they will forever release BD's? Nope, It will slowly become 4k or whatever is up next. One day DVD will finally die out, Then BD will eventually... That is just the way it is. No reason to argue about it.

[franken_psycho1990]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Why do you keep using this flawed and flat out WRONG argument?

I love how you say that 1080p is "only" six times the resolution of SD, yet 4K is four times the resolution of 1080p but it will somehow be "an even bigger leap".

Uh.... HOW may I ask exactly??? Last time I checked (in first grade math), 6 is a bigger number than 4, so if 1080p has 6 times the pixels of SD and 4K has 4 times the pixels of 1080p, then how will 4K be an "even bigger leap"? Please explain this to me. And I'm only talking on a purely technical level (numbers), and not even taking the human factor/diminishing results, which is also very relevant to this discussion.

Exactly.

[42041]

Originally Posted by franken_psycho1990

I suppose you are a fortune teller now? What ever new format comes (4k it looks like) it will eventually become the norm. VHS did, DVD did and BD did. Tell me why 4k won't?

Increasingly niche market, increasing competition from Netflix and the like, currently not a great deal of content to offer significant benefits from 4K...
I'm sure as the prices go down to nothing, it will probably become pretty widely used, but a "game changer", please...

[franken_psycho1990]

Originally Posted by 42041

Increasingly niche market, increasing competition from Netflix and the like, currently not a great deal of content to offer significant benefits from 4K...
I'm sure as the prices go down to nothing, it will probably become pretty widely used, but a "game changer", please...

I never said it would happen soon or fast. Eventually it will. Some things can't even be released in 4k, Such as a videotaped TV show from the 80's... So I don't know what format will hold those later on.

[AgentOrange]

I love this binary argument.

-You have one side saying it will be a "game changer".
-Other's saying it will be almost nonexistant, or a gimmick like 3D.

Reality seems like it will be somewhere in the middle. It won't be as big as blu-ray sure. Many, many titles will never make the leap to 4K, but it also won't just be relegated to "new releases".

Keep in mind there's already lots stuff that is 4K ready, studios are already building their libraries for 4K, and they will continue to archive and restore their films in 4K where it suits them. It's not just going to be limited to Wizard of Oz and Lawrence of Arabia. If the major studios don't put them out, it wouldn't be surprising for an outfit like Criterion to carry the flag a little bit for some "reference" quality catalog titles as well. Maybe a special order group like Twilight Time might want a piece of the action.

Of course it should also be obvious that the market isn't there for it to be completely mainstream. Look at how much Best Buy has shrunk their media space. Do we think they are going to ramp it back up for 4K? Most likely not. I think a fair amount of catalogue titles will be made available, it's just a matter of through what channels they are sold, at what volumes, and at what price. My guess is the big box stores will stick with mostly the new releases, and only the biggest catalogue titles. Obviously we already see them skipping over many blu-ray releases from store shelves - so it's sort of delusional to think the trend will go in the opposite direction for 4K.