Insane Bitrates On Both Pirates Films!! - Blu-ray Forum

beatboy77 · 05-17-2007, 03:18 AM

Here are some pictures I just took of both Pirates films. It is common to see the bitrates range from 38 to 51 Mbps. Here are some photos:

~Josh

Razter · 05-17-2007, 03:29 AM

Does the bitrate meter freak out or is there a buffer that allows video to go beyond 40Mbps?

theknub · 05-17-2007, 03:34 AM

razter, i've seen you post twice about some buffer thing. what are you talking about? a buffer can not magically boost the bitrate of a movie, no matter what you do.

Zaphod · 05-17-2007, 03:43 AM

The only thing a buffer would do would allow the bitrate of the video to be higher to start with. It wouldn't artifically boost it, it would just allow the disc to be encoded with the higher bitrate to start with. The buffer would just allow more of the information to be dumped into the buffer that would otherwise fill up the players base memory alotted to video while playing. More memory in the buffer would allow more information to be loaded while playback is occuring, since the higher bitrate would require larger file size and thus more space, the studio can encode with a higher bitrate.

Razter · 05-17-2007, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknub

razter, i've seen you post twice about some buffer thing. what are you talking about? a buffer can not magically boost the bitrate of a movie, no matter what you do.

"Both formats have memory buffers that allow small spikes above their regular limits. I don't recall how much larger the spec for the Blu-ray buffer is. Also, the bitrate meter could have some inaccuracy here."
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10535240

Shin-Ra · 05-17-2007, 03:46 AM

Impressive! I'm drooling with anticipation, the second picture's broken for me though.

Razter · 05-17-2007, 03:50 AM

The BD spec say 40Mbps for video, that's why this is interesting. Does something allow for peaks higher than 40Mbps or is the bitrate meter simply just inaccurate on PS3?

theknub · 05-17-2007, 03:51 AM

ahh, ok. the bitrate you see is for both audio and video. not just video

Zaphod · 05-17-2007, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

Impressive! I'm drooling with anticipation, the second picture's broken for me though.

It shows a scene from POTC 1 with the following:
Linear PCM 5.1 Ch. 48 kHz 6.9Mbps AVC 36.8 Mbps

Zaphod · 05-17-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razter

The BD spec say 40Mbps for video, that's why this is interesting. Does something allow for peaks higher than 40Mbps or is the bitrate meter simply just inaccurate on PS3?

Now the spec says 40 Mbps, but is that the top out point? Or can studios choose higher if they have the space?

phloyd · 05-17-2007, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razter

The BD spec say 40Mbps for video, that's why this is interesting. Does something allow for peaks higher than 40Mbps or is the bitrate meter simply just inaccurate on PS3?

I have often wondered that myself.

From what I can see, it is really not possible for the mux (total bitrate of everything) to go over 48 Mbps.

However... if there is a buffer that can store up video that is then 'released' at a huge bitrate, the 48Mbps need not apply. That said, I would expect most authoring tools to limit video to 40 Mbps...

But you never know.

So my theory is that the PS3 meter is not particularly accurate - at least until I see evidence to refute that and support the buffer concept.

It is also not clear over what time range the 40 Mbps limit applies (ie, you could have a big spike and then a lower bitrate for most of the 'sampling time' and still manage a 40 Mbps average for that period of time)...

Anyways, until we can mess with the actual streams, it is difficult to know for sure...

Zaphod · 05-17-2007, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phloyd

So my theory is that the PS3 meter is not particularly accurate - at least until I see evidence to refute that and support the buffer concept.

Has there been anyone, or seen anything, that has compared the PS3 bitrate and another players, or by using a Blu-ray drive on a PC side by side for bitrate comparison?

Razter · 05-17-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknub

ahh, ok. the bitrate you see is for both audio and video. not just video

Yes, this was my theory for a while too, but then someone shoot it down by stating that it's only for video, can someone say for sure what's true here?

EDIT: Audio bitrate to the left and video bitrate to the right, or video + audio combined to the right?

Zaphod · 05-17-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razter

EDIT: Audio bitrate to the left and video bitrate to the right, or video + audio combined to the right?

It looks like they are seperating the subsections by the codec used in the box (i.e. Linear PCM or Dolby Digital, or AVC or VC-1), followed by each of their respective bitrates and sampling. I don't know why Sony would choose to list them both combined on the right after the video codec, since the audio is already listed as well...hmmm...

It wouldn't surprise me though, Sony has done some awkward things before...

Razter · 05-17-2007, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

It looks like they are seperating the subsections by the codec used in the box (i.e. Linear PCM or Dolby Digital, or aVC or VC-1), followed by each of their respective bitrates and sampling. I don't know why Sony would choose to list them both combined on the right right after the video codec, since the audio is already listed as well...hmmm...

Yeah that would make no sense.

phloyd · 05-17-2007, 04:32 AM

From what I have seen, it is video only on the right. Some sources that I have authored to BDR were fairly constant video rate and the PS3 is pretty much on the nose, perhaps just a tad higher (so it may include some video packet overhead as well).

I can easily test that further at some stage, but I am confident that it is video only at least.

ProvenFlipper · 05-17-2007, 05:07 AM

Damn... that's ridiculous. I can't wait to pick up Pirates on Tuesday.

Ascended_Saiyan · 05-17-2007, 06:27 AM

That's higher than Deja Vu on one of the deleted/extended scenes (50Mbps peak VC-1) or the NIN concert (50Mbps peak VC-1). This is the highest bitrates we've seen for any video codec.

Deciazulado · 05-17-2007, 06:45 AM

The PS3 meter can have 1.5 Mb/s on the left and almost near 0 on the right in fades to black, so it's not including audio.

I've mentioned in posts before, that I once read that the video wasn't limited to 40Mb/s and could go higher, but that the decoders were rated only to 40. That was last year. Is this what's happening here? Maybe someone will explain it with more "authority"

PeterTHX · 05-17-2007, 10:23 AM

Well, I appreciate that the movies are 24 bit but they should have been 6.1/7.1 PCM since the movies are EX.

So the lowly Dolby track at 640kbps represents the imaging of the original sound mix

05-17-2007, 03:18 AM	#1
beatboy77 Active Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Colorado Springs, CO Trading Score:16	Insane Bitrates On Both Pirates Films!! Here are some pictures I just took of both Pirates films. It is common to see the bitrates range from 38 to 51 Mbps. Here are some photos: ~Josh

05-17-2007, 06:27 AM	#18
Ascended_Saiyan Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Atlanta, Georgia Blu-ray collection:608 Trading Score:1	That's higher than Deja Vu on one of the deleted/extended scenes (50Mbps peak VC-1) or the NIN concert (50Mbps peak VC-1). This is the highest bitrates we've seen for any video codec. Last edited by Ascended_Saiyan; 05-17-2007 at 06:32 AM.

05-17-2007, 06:45 AM	#19
Deciazulado Site Manager Top contributor Member since:Aug 2006 Location:USiberia Home Theater Gallery:6 4K collection:1160 Blu-ray collection:7047 DVD collection:4044	Déjà Vu The PS3 meter can have 1.5 Mb/s on the left and almost near 0 on the right in fades to black, so it's not including audio. I've mentioned in posts before, that I once read that the video wasn't limited to 40Mb/s and could go higher, but that the decoders were rated only to 40. That was last year. Is this what's happening here? Maybe someone will explain it with more "authority"

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05-17-2007, 03:29 AM	#2
Razter Member Member since:Feb 2007	Does the bitrate meter freak out or is there a buffer that allows video to go beyond 40Mbps?

05-17-2007, 03:34 AM	#3
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	razter, i've seen you post twice about some buffer thing. what are you talking about? a buffer can not magically boost the bitrate of a movie, no matter what you do.

05-17-2007, 03:43 AM	#4
Zaphod Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. Blu-ray collection:350 Trading Score:4	The only thing a buffer would do would allow the bitrate of the video to be higher to start with. It wouldn't artifically boost it, it would just allow the disc to be encoded with the higher bitrate to start with. The buffer would just allow more of the information to be dumped into the buffer that would otherwise fill up the players base memory alotted to video while playing. More memory in the buffer would allow more information to be loaded while playback is occuring, since the higher bitrate would require larger file size and thus more space, the studio can encode with a higher bitrate.

05-17-2007, 03:46 AM	#6
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	Impressive! I'm drooling with anticipation, the second picture's broken for me though.

05-17-2007, 03:50 AM	#7
Razter Member Member since:Feb 2007	The BD spec say 40Mbps for video, that's why this is interesting. Does something allow for peaks higher than 40Mbps or is the bitrate meter simply just inaccurate on PS3?

05-17-2007, 03:51 AM	#8
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	ahh, ok. the bitrate you see is for both audio and video. not just video

05-17-2007, 04:32 AM	#16
phloyd Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2003 Location:California Trading Score:5	From what I have seen, it is video only on the right. Some sources that I have authored to BDR were fairly constant video rate and the PS3 is pretty much on the nose, perhaps just a tad higher (so it may include some video packet overhead as well). I can easily test that further at some stage, but I am confident that it is video only at least.

05-17-2007, 05:07 AM	#17
ProvenFlipper Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Home Theater Gallery:4 4K collection:335 Blu-ray collection:901 Trading Score:1	Damn... that's ridiculous. I can't wait to pick up Pirates on Tuesday.

05-17-2007, 10:23 AM	#20
PeterTHX Banned Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Blu-ray collection:563 Trading Score:14	Well, I appreciate that the movies are 24 bit but they should have been 6.1/7.1 PCM since the movies are EX. So the lowly Dolby track at 640kbps represents the imaging of the original sound mix

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