Why do so many BD's look SO BAD???

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

Haven't watched Army of Darkness yet, but I thought The Evil Dead was atrocious. I know it's just exposing what was already there, but it's a firm argument that not every film should get a Blu release. You can clearly see how much bigger the budget was for Evil Dead 2, which although still inconsistent at times, is gorgeous and holds up much better under the high def scrutiny.

The Evil Dead looked quite good actually!!! Grain and all!!!!! I love it!

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

It wasn't just the grain for me, it was all the out of focus shots, the dramatic differences in colour, blacks and lighting sometimes multiple times in the same sequence and the obvious seams of the special effects too. I know people like a bit of cinematic honesty, but it just breaks the illusion for me and takes the fun out of it for me. I never meant that the film doesn't "deserve" a Blu release, but for me I'd rather stick to the DVD where the film didn't look like a constant reel of deleted scenes, and behind the scenes looks. The Blu is "better" in the most basic of the word, but the DVD better serves the film. For me, anyway.

I haven't seen any of the Blu-Rays of The Evil Dead but even the DVDs look dull to me being too warm. I much prefer the colder colour pallet used for the rare old Japanese Laserdisc that has a blue filter to it making the film overall look and feel a lot creepier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeaLiJVvy1c

[UFAlien]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

It wasn't just the grain for me, it was all the out of focus shots, the dramatic differences in colour, blacks and lighting sometimes multiple times in the same sequence and the obvious seams of the special effects too. I know people like a bit of cinematic honesty, but it just breaks the illusion for me and takes the fun out of it for me. I never meant that the film doesn't "deserve" a Blu release, but for me I'd rather stick to the DVD where the film didn't look like a constant reel of deleted scenes, and behind the scenes looks. The Blu is "better" in the most basic of the word, but the DVD better serves the film. For me, anyway.

A-ha. Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. I don't mind the "seams" so much but I can certainly see how it'd be distracting.

[Redshaggydoo]

I have had many blu rays I was disappointed in. The lotr extended trilogy is one of them, neverending story a second. I saw very little difference between DVD and blu ray. In the case of the never ending story the DVD was far better. However, I have also noticed that if I adjust my tv display settings for each movie there is a noticeable difference in PQ. Even if I need to adjust digital noise reduction and what not. Takes time and is sometimes annoying. If you look at upcoming releases, mainly from WB, they are reissuing many of their already released blu ray titles in a new diamond deluxe edition that has been remastered. They skimped on the first releases basically just using the DVD transfer and putting in on a blu ray. It is for this reason I have stopped buying blu ray upgrades for titles that have not been remastered by the studio. Hopefully when the never ending story is rereleased in October I will be happy with the transfer.

[UFAlien]

Originally Posted by Redshaggydoo

I have had many blu rays I was disappointed in. The lotr extended trilogy is one of them, neverending story a second. I saw very little difference between DVD and blu ray. In the case of the never ending story the DVD was far better. However, I have also noticed that if I adjust my tv display settings for each movie there is a noticeable difference in PQ. Even if I need to adjust digital noise reduction and what not. Takes time and is sometimes annoying. If you look at upcoming releases, mainly from WB, they are reissuing many of their already released blu ray titles in a new diamond deluxe edition that has been remastered. They skimped on the first releases basically just using the DVD transfer and putting in on a blu ray. It is for this reason I have stopped buying blu ray upgrades for titles that have not been remastered by the studio. Hopefully when the never ending story is rereleased in October I will be happy with the transfer.

Has it been confirmed the Diamond Luxe releases are remasters? From what I read they're just new packaging with a couple new bonuses.

[Redshaggydoo]

I read on article either on this site or imdb. It stated that these titles would be remastered. It was awhile ago and I don't have the article but will do a bit of digging...

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by popoboy

Can someone please explain to me why some BD's look so amazing and others look so bad? I have been buying movies for 5 years and am just tired of expecting them to look good and then being sadly disappointed...I know the basic answers about how much the studio is willing to spend on mastering etc...(and I mainly buy classic and retro movies) But it's SO hit and miss...I just purchased "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" I've been waiting for years for this to be released. Saw it recently on an HD station and it looked great. Then I got the BD last week and it looks AWFUL...It looks like it's been rolled in sand, grain everywhere, mosquito noise, poor coloring...I mean Disney truly screwed this one up (lets not even mention the fact that the didn't include the longer version of the film) This isn't the first time I've noticed this...A few years ago I saw a beautiful HD showing of "West Side Story" and then purchased the BD...Again...weird colors, telecine wobble, and the blu ray just looked terrible next to the HD broadcast. WHY IS THIS??? Can someone please explain? I'm about ready to give up on Blu ray...and I hate to say this but each time I buy a catalog title I'm less and less impressed. And please, for all you younger out there, please don't tell me that this is the way an older film is SUPPOSED to look because that just isn't true..Let's remember that many of us saw these films multiple times on first release and remember how they looked...and they DID NOT LOOK LIKE A GRAINY MESS. Let's not forget that a film projected on a huge screen might show some grain, but scaled down onto a 55 inch TV should not show the grain...it should be very minimal...and also I'm tired of hearing that the director intended the grain...This is ALSO not true (unless it is a film like Fight Club) These older films were simply the result of film stocks of the time...nothing more...Disenchanted with Blu ray.....

What kind of display are you using and has it been calibrated? I'm always harping about calibration because I think that is one of the issues people are running into with some discs. At minimum, make sure your contrast is not over-boosted and sharpness settings/enhancements are turned off as that will over-accentuate grain, as can black level not set improperly (too high), and if gamma boosted, etc. Stay away from Dynamic modes, etc. If you're not using a pro to calibrate, at least get a calibration disc such as DVE, Disney Wow, or one of the others to set basic settings. I have not watched Bedknobs, but reputable sources are rating it well. Also remember not every movie can nor should look like Avatar.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

What kind of display are you using and has it been calibrated? I'm always harping about calibration because I think that is one of the issues people are running into with discs. At minimum, make sure your contrast is not over-boosted and sharpness settings/enhancements are turned off as that will over-accentuate grain, as can black level not set improperly (too high), and if gamma boosted, etc. Stay away from Dynamic modes, etc. I have not watched Bedknobs, but reputable sources are rating it well. If you're not using a pro to calibrate, at least get a calibration disc such as DVE, Disney Wow, or one of the others to set basic settings.

Correct. Calibration of some sort, even if it is by disc, is way better than using out of the box settings.

[Atreyu]

Originally Posted by popoboy

Not sure...I'm guessing these are 20-30 year old reviewers that weren't old enough to remember how this looked in the theater

Your memory is so good you can ACTUALLY remember how good a film that was in the theater over 30 years ago looked?

[Redshaggydoo]

Originally Posted by UFAlien

Has it been confirmed the Diamond Luxe releases are remasters? From what I read they're just new packaging with a couple new bonuses.

From the jun 20 article posted on this site there has been no official word on the remastering of the diamond line at all only speculation. I am pretty sure that another article talked about the titles being remastered but I can not locate it.
So you are correct in the new packaging and bonus features and I may be wrong about the remaster.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by popoboy

Can someone please explain to me why some BD's look so amazing and others look so bad? I have been buying movies for 5 years and am just tired of expecting them to look good and then being sadly disappointed...I know the basic answers about how much the studio is willing to spend on mastering etc...(and I mainly buy classic and retro movies) But it's SO hit and miss...I just purchased "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" I've been waiting for years for this to be released. Saw it recently on an HD station and it looked great. Then I got the BD last week and it looks AWFUL...It looks like it's been rolled in sand, grain everywhere, mosquito noise, poor coloring...I mean Disney truly screwed this one up (lets not even mention the fact that the didn't include the longer version of the film) This isn't the first time I've noticed this...A few years ago I saw a beautiful HD showing of "West Side Story" and then purchased the BD...Again...weird colors, telecine wobble, and the blu ray just looked terrible next to the HD broadcast. WHY IS THIS??? Can someone please explain? I'm about ready to give up on Blu ray...and I hate to say this but each time I buy a catalog title I'm less and less impressed. And please, for all you younger out there, please don't tell me that this is the way an older film is SUPPOSED to look because that just isn't true..Let's remember that many of us saw these films multiple times on first release and remember how they looked...and they DID NOT LOOK LIKE A GRAINY MESS. Let's not forget that a film projected on a huge screen might show some grain, but scaled down onto a 55 inch TV should not show the grain...it should be very minimal...and also I'm tired of hearing that the director intended the grain...This is ALSO not true (unless it is a film like Fight Club) These older films were simply the result of film stocks of the time...nothing more...Disenchanted with Blu ray.....

As I read the original thread title, I had a somewhat jokey response that would have been cute, but didn't really add anything...
Why do do many BD's look SO BAD??? --- Because your expectations are so unrealistic.

But... having read many of your responses, I realized that response was rather appropriate. You would have been 5 when Bedknobs and Broomsticks came out in 1971. Well I don't even remember if I was wiping my own ass full time when I was 5, but somehow you had the presence of mind to know that you were going to need to remember the technical finesse of a theatrical presentation some 43 years later. That's beyond impressive... that's literally unbelievable. I don't mean unbelievable in an "I'm shocked" kind of way, but rather in a "that's totally impossible and I'd be stupid to believe it" kind of way. If there's one thing this forum and the Blu-ray format overall has shown me, its that people are all too eager to put what they think ahead of what they should know. It's not dissimilar to people who think JJ Abrams invented the lens flare even though anamorphic lens flares have been common in films for decades, but they never noticed them before so they must be new, right?

There are a variety of reasons why you might think an HD broadcast is "better" than the Blu-ray. HD broadcasts are actually heavily compressed and noise reduced to fit within a stations allotted bandwidth for broadcast. I don't know if this is still happening, but if you watched B&B on a Disney channel (such as ABC, ABC Family, Disney Channel) they broadcast in 720P, not 1080, which would have further smoothed out the image and reduced grain. Same with the DVD, which between the reduced resolution and encoding necessary to fit it on disc would have smoothed much of the original detail in the picture. Remember.... Blu-ray isn't about getting the BEST picture, it's supposed to be about getting the RIGHT picture (which should be considered the best). I recently saw (about a week ago) Romancing the Stone theatrically and you would be shocked at how many flat-out out of focus shots there are in the original photography. Do you remember that from when you saw it in 1984? I don't. Because of this hobby, people have gotten more attuned to focusing on those details in the past 10 or so years, but that doesn't mean we were ALWAYS so conditioned. I would be willing to bet money that you are remembering B&B theatrically much more positively than it probably originally was. You're letting the quality of 1000 other films over several decades sway your memories of a showing 43 years ago. Either that or you were the most obsessive/compulsive 5 year old that ever walked the earth.

I've seen a TON of 35mm prints of classic films over the past few years (now that I AM so educated to finally know to look for things) and with VERY few exceptions, what we generally see on Blu-ray is as good if not better than what we saw theatrically. I fought this fight HARD in the Predator thread where I had looked at the original 2008 Blu-ray within hours (before and after) of seeing a pristine 35mm print and found it to be a shockingly faithful representation of that print. Yet I STILL had people telling me how terrible the Blu-ray was and that it didn't look anything like the film had looked when they saw it one time in 1987 (one of those arguing, it was eventually revealed, had never even seen it theatrically and had held firm in his resolve completely off memories of the VHS and DVD). But usually when something is "botched" it's very easy to see where (noise reduction, edge enhancement). Even an older master can look great if it isn't mussed with. Most of the older masters that end up looking terrible do so because the studios tweak them so they don't have people yelling, "Why do so many BD's look SO BAD???"

[Bueller]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The most common answer is the studios. Often times when a catalog title is scheduled for a BD release the respective studio has a choice. They can either use the master they have, which is sometimes more than a decade old or they can strike a new master. Unfortunately, the former is often the choice because it saves them money. Furthermore, there are times when the a certain title is need of a new restoration on top of needing a new master.

This post is clearing some stuff up for me. Could someone clear up what a master is and how a "new" master is made? A restoration is what you hear about from films likes Jaws and The Godfather on Blu-ray, where they go into the film it was actually shot on, correct?

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by Redshaggydoo

From the jun 20 article posted on this site there has been no official word on the remastering of the diamond line at all only speculation. I am pretty sure that another article talked about the titles being remastered but I can not locate it.
So you are correct in the new packaging and bonus features and I may be wrong about the remaster.

Most of the diamond line's specs are showing the same encodes so no new masters.

[Chiefy]

The real question is, why do most Blu-rays not look "as good" as they could? If the studios do too good of a job, what is the incentive for us to re-buy that title(s) again if it's only marginally better in the next format?
Yes, it's about studios being lazy, but ultimately, it's about future profits. It's always about money.

Why are DVD sales still going strong, when Blu-rays are clearly superior?

[Todd Tomorrow]

Whiners who complain that "many" Blu-rays look "bad" either need to invest in a display larger than 32" or are clueless about the varieties of film stock older films in particular got shot on. They expect every film reaching to the beginning of cinema should have been shot 4K digital. I have a projector on which the vast majority of my Blu-rays look great and of my 600 Blu-rays less than five look no better than a DVD and even there it's sometimes the source (28 Days Later for example).

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

Haven't watched Army of Darkness yet, but I thought The Evil Dead was atrocious. I know it's just exposing what was already there, but it's a firm argument that not every film should get a Blu release. You can clearly see how much bigger the budget was for Evil Dead 2, which although still inconsistent at times, is gorgeous and holds up much better under the high def scrutiny.

They didn't teach you about 16mm at film school then ?

Evil Dead looks better on Blu because unlike with the DVD the grain doesn't get turned to mush. On the Blu it retains its texture.

[Pizzamorg]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

They didn't teach you about 16mm at film school then ?

Evil Dead looks better on Blu because unlike with the DVD the grain doesn't get turned to mush. On the Blu it retains its texture.

Evil Dead was converted to 35mm... Anyway the texture of the grain is fine, but it's all the reasons I outlined in my follow up post which is why I do not enjoy it.

[Ben_UK]

Because; Universal.

[bigdaddyhorse]

"Why do so many blu rays look so bad?"

Cause ya'll be tripping and looking for any tiny thing bad, then focusing on that and ignore anything good is why. If you only look for bad, you only find bad!

A few dirt specs over a crystal clear image is far better to me than less specs over a muddied mess. From reviews and posts around the site, I'm in the minority with that view.

[OneWayFilms]

Originally Posted by popoboy

Can someone please explain to me why some BD's look so amazing and others look so bad? I have been buying movies for 5 years and am just tired of expecting them to look good and then being sadly disappointed...I know the basic answers about how much the studio is willing to spend on mastering etc...(and I mainly buy classic and retro movies) But it's SO hit and miss...I just purchased "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" I've been waiting for years for this to be released. Saw it recently on an HD station and it looked great. Then I got the BD last week and it looks AWFUL...It looks like it's been rolled in sand, grain everywhere, mosquito noise, poor coloring...I mean Disney truly screwed this one up (lets not even mention the fact that the didn't include the longer version of the film) This isn't the first time I've noticed this...A few years ago I saw a beautiful HD showing of "West Side Story" and then purchased the BD...Again...weird colors, telecine wobble, and the blu ray just looked terrible next to the HD broadcast. WHY IS THIS??? Can someone please explain? I'm about ready to give up on Blu ray...and I hate to say this but each time I buy a catalog title I'm less and less impressed. And please, for all you younger out there, please don't tell me that this is the way an older film is SUPPOSED to look because that just isn't true..Let's remember that many of us saw these films multiple times on first release and remember how they looked...and they DID NOT LOOK LIKE A GRAINY MESS. Let's not forget that a film projected on a huge screen might show some grain, but scaled down onto a 55 inch TV should not show the grain...it should be very minimal...and also I'm tired of hearing that the director intended the grain...This is ALSO not true (unless it is a film like Fight Club) These older films were simply the result of film stocks of the time...nothing more...Disenchanted with Blu ray.....

Have you considered adjusting your tv's settings? Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, etc... I believe if you play with your adjustments, perhaps you can make your blurays look better according to your viewing pleasure.

Play around before giving up on bluray.....you'r the ONLY person that I've heard that is disenchanted with bluray, and that's why I believe it could be your tv's settings.