frustrated

[KingDavid102077]

I bought a new onkyo TX-SR606 basically so I get dlby tru hd and dts hd coming out of my speakers. After hooking it u and it not decoding I realized I had to complete a firmware update on my panasonic DMP-BD10A which I did, still no decoding of tru-hd or dts-hd sound. BTW yes I am using HDMI in and out on the receiver. Anyone know if I'm doing something wrong or a setting I should check. when I select the tru hd or dts hd as my it only spits out DD or DTS standard/

[CasualKiller]

Looks like your blu player only does True HD and DTS-HD through lpcm and doesn't do DTS-HD MA at all

[KingDavid102077]

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

Looks like your blu player only does True HD and DTS-HD through lpcm and doesn't do DTS-HD MA at all

I'm kind of new to all this new up to date audio options, what does true hd and dts-hd through "lpcm" mean?

[WickyWoo]

The BD10A will not stream the codecs

It will decode True HD and DTS HD (but not DTS Master) internally and pass those as PCM over HDMI to the Onkyo. PCM is raw uncompressed audio

You need to set both to PCM in your player setup menu

[KingDavid102077]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

The BD10A will not stream the codecs

It will decode True HD and DTS HD (but not DTS Master) internally and pass those as PCM over HDMI to the Onkyo. PCM is raw uncompressed audio

You need to set both to PCM in your player setup menu

Thanks a lot it has been driving me up the wall.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

I was in the EXACT same boat as the OP -- bought the Onkyo 605 to have it decode the new formats internally and to see the TrueHD and Master Audio indicators light up...found out afterwards that my Panny '10A didn't bitstream the codecs...

Wicky Woo is correct -- and I found out the frustrating hard way myself -- in that TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus must be set to "PCM" in the '10A because the PLAYER must decode the tracks and send them over HDMI or analog as multichannel PCM...you can keep the "DTS-HD" audio setting on the '10A to "PCM" as well if you want, so the player can decode the DTS-HD soundtracks from certain rare discs but I personally keep this setting on BITSTREAM so the CORE DTS tracks from Master Audio soundtracks on some Blu rays get passed via bitstream to my 605...the '10A doesn't support Master Audio at all, so what it does is extract the "core" DTS mix on the disc and sends THAT as bitstream if you have "DTS-HD" set to bitstream...a huge Panny quirk, but that's one of the reasons I want to sell my '10A and just get a player that outputs all codecs as bitstream.

HOWEVER if you want the TRUE decoded DTS-HD audio found on some Blu rays you should keep DTS HD set to PCM on the '10A.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

I was in the EXACT same boat as the OP -- bought the Onkyo 605 to have it decode the new formats internally and to see the TrueHD and Master Audio indicators light up...found out afterwards that my Panny '10A didn't bitstream the codecs...

Wicky Woo is correct -- and I found out the frustrating hard way myself -- in that TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus must be set to "PCM" in the '10A because the PLAYER must decode the tracks and send them over HDMI or analog as multichannel PCM...you can keep the "DTS-HD" audio setting on the '10A to "PCM" as well if you want, so the player can decode the DTS-HD soundtracks from certain rare discs but I personally keep this setting on BITSTREAM so the CORE DTS tracks from Master Audio soundtracks on some Blu rays get passed via bitstream to my 605...the '10A doesn't support Master Audio at all, so what it does is extract the "core" DTS mix on the disc and sends THAT as bitstream if you have "DTS-HD" set to bitstream...a huge Panny quirk, but that's one of the reasons I want to sell my '10A and just get a player that outputs all codecs as bitstream.

HOWEVER if you want the TRUE decoded DTS-HD audio found on some Blu rays you should keep DTS HD set to PCM on the '10A.

Why would you NOT have it sent via PCM? Just so you can see DTS light up on the receiver? Even if it could bitstream it they'd sound nearly identical if not exactly so.

[KingDavid102077]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

I was in the EXACT same boat as the OP -- bought the Onkyo 605 to have it decode the new formats internally and to see the TrueHD and Master Audio indicators light up...found out afterwards that my Panny '10A didn't bitstream the codecs...

Wicky Woo is correct -- and I found out the frustrating hard way myself -- in that TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus must be set to "PCM" in the '10A because the PLAYER must decode the tracks and send them over HDMI or analog as multichannel PCM...you can keep the "DTS-HD" audio setting on the '10A to "PCM" as well if you want, so the player can decode the DTS-HD soundtracks from certain rare discs but I personally keep this setting on BITSTREAM so the CORE DTS tracks from Master Audio soundtracks on some Blu rays get passed via bitstream to my 605...the '10A doesn't support Master Audio at all, so what it does is extract the "core" DTS mix on the disc and sends THAT as bitstream if you have "DTS-HD" set to bitstream...a huge Panny quirk, but that's one of the reasons I want to sell my '10A and just get a player that outputs all codecs as bitstream.

HOWEVER if you want the TRUE decoded DTS-HD audio found on some Blu rays you should keep DTS HD set to PCM on the '10A.

Thanks for the info, if I knew this was the case ahead of time, I would not have bought the Panasonoic but it said on the box true-HD and DTS-HD and was giving me 5 free movies in the box so I took the plunge. Oh well, I will make sure my future bd player (down the line) will do everything I expect before i buy it.

[bluseminole]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

I was in the EXACT same boat as the OP -- bought the Onkyo 605 to have it decode the new formats internally and to see the TrueHD and Master Audio indicators light up...found out afterwards that my Panny '10A didn't bitstream the codecs...

Wicky Woo is correct -- and I found out the frustrating hard way myself -- in that TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus must be set to "PCM" in the '10A because the PLAYER must decode the tracks and send them over HDMI or analog as multichannel PCM...you can keep the "DTS-HD" audio setting on the '10A to "PCM" as well if you want, so the player can decode the DTS-HD soundtracks from certain rare discs but I personally keep this setting on BITSTREAM so the CORE DTS tracks from Master Audio soundtracks on some Blu rays get passed via bitstream to my 605...the '10A doesn't support Master Audio at all, so what it does is extract the "core" DTS mix on the disc and sends THAT as bitstream if you have "DTS-HD" set to bitstream...a huge Panny quirk, but that's one of the reasons I want to sell my '10A and just get a player that outputs all codecs as bitstream.

HOWEVER if you want the TRUE decoded DTS-HD audio found on some Blu rays you should keep DTS HD set to PCM on the '10A.

You can still set the DTS-HD setting to PCM and it will bitstream the DTS core from MA tracks over optical or HDMI. The DTS-HD setting applies only to the treatment of DTS-HD HR, and has no effect on the decoding of DTS-HD MA. It is impossible for this player to "see" any DTS-HD MA track. Any disc encoded with MA is seen by the Panny as only being a standard DTS disc, so it's actually the "DTS" setting that determines how the player treats DTS-HD MA: setting the "DTS" setting to PCM decodes the 5.1 DTS track in the player; bitstream sends the standard DTS signal to the receiver.

I discovered all of this via trial and error setting up my player.

Bottom line, it's best always to keep the DTS-HD setting on PCM. It only affects a handful of titles anyhow, but bitstreaming it gives you absolutely no advantage.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Why would you NOT have it sent via PCM? Just so you can see DTS light up on the receiver? Even if it could bitstream it they'd sound nearly identical if not exactly so.

Well, by that same token, why NOT have it bitstreamed over? ON MY PARTICULAR SETUP, core DTS tracks sound much better bitstreamed than leaving the Panny '10A set to "PCM" for DTS Master Audio tracks...

I don't think we're talking about the same thing here -- the Panasonic '10A does not support DTS MASTER AUDIO at all -- under "DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT" in the '10A's setup menu, the selection for "DTS-HD" controls how Master Audio is handled by this player...trust me, I've been through it for a long time now. When DTS-HD is set to "PCM" output, then MASTER AUDIO tracks play off a disc and the DTS CORE is sent as multichannel decoded PCM...BUT, if BITSTREAM is selected for DTS-HD output then the DTS CORE from a MASTER AUDIO track is extracted and sent to a receiver for decoding WHICH SOUNDS BETTER on MY particular setup...

Now, if you do own a TRUE DTS-HD title and you leave DTS-HD on BITSTREAM on the '10A, then yes, you are ONLY getting the CORE DTS again sent over the bitstream...BUT if you set this to PCM and play a TRUE DTS HD track, then, yes, the '10A IS decoding the full DTS HD...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by KingDavid102077

Thanks for the info, if I knew this was the case ahead of time, I would not have bought the Panasonoic but it said on the box true-HD and DTS-HD and was giving me 5 free movies in the box so I took the plunge. Oh well, I will make sure my future bd player (down the line) will do everything I expect before i buy it.

...the EXACT same thing I did when buying the Panny...I know what you mean...I thought, when first getting into this new generation of high def audio and video, that DTS HD was the same thing as DTS Master Audio; it wasn't until I read the Panny's manual and saw that Master Audio was not supported by this machine that I was pissed that I didn't investigate further.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

You can still set the DTS-HD setting to PCM and it will bitstream the DTS core from MA tracks over optical or HDMI.

No, it won't do that over HDMI -- if you set the player to "PCM" for DTS-HD output, and play a disc with Master Audio, THE CORE DTS MIX OF A MASTER AUDIO TRACK is extracted and sent as decoded DTS PCM...

The DTS-HD setting applies only to the treatment of DTS-HD HR, and has no effect on the decoding of DTS-HD MA. It is impossible for this player to "see" any DTS-HD MA track.

The Panasonic '10A WILL treat DTS MASTER AUDIO as a DTS mix -- it says so in the manual and does so when I play Master Audio tracks...it simply extracts the CORE DTS mix in the Master Audio stream and sends that either as decoded PCM or bitstream depending on what's selected at DTS-HD audio setup...

Any disc encoded with MA is seen by the Panny as only being a standard DTS disc, so it's actually the "DTS" setting that determines how the player treats DTS-HD MA: setting the "DTS" setting to PCM decodes the 5.1 DTS track in the player; bitstream sends the standard DTS signal to the receiver.

That's not how the '10A works -- I am telling you from experience that the "DTS-HD" audio setup is what controls what happens to a Master Audio track when "seen" by the player...I don't know why Panasonic chose to do this, but it is perhaps because "DTS-HD" is recognized as the audio stream...

When I select "PCM" or "BITSTREAM" for DTS-HD output on my 10A, THAT controls how a Master Audio track is being handled by the player.

I discovered all of this via trial and error setting up my player.

Bottom line, it's best always to keep the DTS-HD setting on PCM. It only affects a handful of titles anyhow, but bitstreaming it gives you absolutely no advantage.

That's not what MY player does -- you are right that if you have a TRUE DTS-HD track on a disc then PCM would be the correct setting for DTS HD output on the player for TRUE decoding of that track -- but Master Audio is controlled by this feature too and should be set to bitstream for the core DTS track to pass over.

[bluseminole]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

You can still set the DTS-HD setting to PCM and it will bitstream the DTS core from MA tracks over optical or HDMI.

No, it won't do that over HDMI -- if you set the player to "PCM" for DTS-HD output, and play a disc with Master Audio, THE CORE DTS MIX OF A MASTER AUDIO TRACK is extracted and sent as decoded DTS PCM...

The DTS-HD setting applies only to the treatment of DTS-HD HR, and has no effect on the decoding of DTS-HD MA. It is impossible for this player to "see" any DTS-HD MA track.

The Panasonic '10A WILL treat DTS MASTER AUDIO as a DTS mix -- it says so in the manual and does so when I play Master Audio tracks...it simply extracts the CORE DTS mix in the Master Audio stream and sends that either as decoded PCM or bitstream depending on what's selected at DTS-HD audio setup...

Any disc encoded with MA is seen by the Panny as only being a standard DTS disc, so it's actually the "DTS" setting that determines how the player treats DTS-HD MA: setting the "DTS" setting to PCM decodes the 5.1 DTS track in the player; bitstream sends the standard DTS signal to the receiver.

That's not how the '10A works -- I am telling you from experience that the "DTS-HD" audio setup is what controls what happens to a Master Audio track when "seen" by the player...I don't know why Panasonic chose to do this, but it is perhaps because "DTS-HD" is recognized as the audio stream...

When I select "PCM" or "BITSTREAM" for DTS-HD output on my 10A, THAT controls how a Master Audio track is being handled by the player.

I discovered all of this via trial and error setting up my player.

Bottom line, it's best always to keep the DTS-HD setting on PCM. It only affects a handful of titles anyhow, but bitstreaming it gives you absolutely no advantage.

That's not what MY player does -- you are right that if you have a TRUE DTS-HD track on a disc then PCM would be the correct setting for DTS HD output on the player for TRUE decoding of that track -- but Master Audio is controlled by this feature too and should be set to bitstream for the core DTS track to pass over.

I must respectfully disagree, and I am not attacking you, seeing as we are both stating what we have observed with our own respective players.

However, the Panasonic does not look at a DTS-HD MA disc and say, "Oh, this is MA, I can't do that, so I'll extract the DTS core." Rather, it looks at the disc and says, "This disc is only encoded with a basic DTS track." and treats it as such.

DTS-HD HR is in no way a part of DTS-HD MA, so the player won't identify an MA track as HR. It will identify it as regular DTS, and apply the normal DTS setting.

I say all this because I think we are somehow misunderstanding each other--it makes no sense that identical players with up-to-date firmware act differently. I am not trying to tell you what you have experienced, even though, according to one study, we are all arrogant jerks (see here ).

The difference may be that I run my audio via multichannel analog outs and bitstream via an optical cable. My HDMI port goes straight to my TV (through a DVI adapter). It may be that we have our HDMI Audio out settings different from each other, though I wouldn't think this would affect things...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by bluseminole

I must respectfully disagree, and I am not attacking you, seeing as we are both stating what we have observed with our own respective players.

However, the Panasonic does not look at a DTS-HD MA disc and say, "Oh, this is MA, I can't do that, so I'll extract the DTS core." Rather, it looks at the disc and says, "This disc is only encoded with a basic DTS track." and treats it as such.

DTS-HD HR is in no way a part of DTS-HD MA, so the player won't identify an MA track as HR. It will identify it as regular DTS, and apply the normal DTS setting.

I say all this because I think we are somehow misunderstanding each other--it makes no sense that identical players with up-to-date firmware act differently. I am not trying to tell you what you have experienced, even though, according to one study, we are all arrogant jerks (see here ).

The difference may be that I run my audio via multichannel analog outs and bitstream via an optical cable. My HDMI port goes straight to my TV (through a DVI adapter). It may be that we have our HDMI Audio out settings different from each other, though I wouldn't think this would affect things...

I'm not looking at it as we are attacking one another, Seminole; my '10A is DEFINITELY acting different than yours, though...

I am set up like this:

HDMI OUT (ONLY) from the '10A (for audio AND video transfer) to an Onkyo TX-SR605's HDMI IN...then HDMI OUT from the 605 to my display's HDMI IN -- THAT'S IT -- NO other connections from the '10A...just HDMI.

Now, set up like this, when I keep the DTS-HD audio output setting on BITSTREAM and play a disc with MASTER AUDIO, the DTS CORE is sent as BITSTREAM and the "DTS" logo lights up on my receiver...if I keep DTS HD on PCM in the player then the DTS CORE of an MA stream is decoded and sent as multichannel PCM -- on my player, the DTS OUTPUT setting DOES NOT control how a Master Audio track is "handled" by this player...

[bluseminole]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is no setting for DTS-HD MA on the player because as far as the Panny is concerned, DTS-HD MA doesn't exist.

In the eyes of the BD10A, DTS-HD MA=DTS

Perhaps another opinion would help to clarify...anybody?

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Yes, correct: the Panny '10A does not recognize Master Audio AT ALL, so what it does is play the CORE DTS mix from a Master Audio track...

BUT, it seems in the setup menu for the '10A's digital audio, the DTS-HD selection CONTROLS what the 10A does with MA tracks...

In other words, leave DTS HD on BITSTREAM, and the core DTS mix is sent as bitstream...

Leave the DTS HD on PCM and the decoded core DTS mix is sent as multichannel PCM...

This is how MY 10A has been working, and thus, I leave the DTS HD on BITSTREAM so when I play MA tracks, the DTS CORE is extracted as BITSTREAM and sent that way to my receiver...

Boy...is this getting ANY easier????

[bluseminole]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

I'm not looking at it as we are attacking one another, Seminole; my '10A is DEFINITELY acting different than yours, though...

I am set up like this:

HDMI OUT (ONLY) from the '10A (for audio AND video transfer) to an Onkyo TX-SR605's HDMI IN...then HDMI OUT from the 605 to my display's HDMI IN -- THAT'S IT -- NO other connections from the '10A...just HDMI.

Now, set up like this, when I keep the DTS-HD audio output setting on BITSTREAM and play a disc with MASTER AUDIO, the DTS CORE is sent as BITSTREAM and the "DTS" logo lights up on my receiver...if I keep DTS HD on PCM in the player then the DTS CORE of an MA stream is decoded and sent as multichannel PCM -- on my player, the DTS OUTPUT setting DOES NOT control how a Master Audio track is "handled" by this player...

I never took it that way, I was just trying to make sure you didn't either....because this may go back and forth several times before we figure it out.

If you can, try connecting an optical cable and use that method of transport for DTS MA signals, setting the DTS-HD setting to PCM and DTS to bitstream.

I know that for my setup, I have HDMI Audio set to "off", because I have no HDMI connected to my receiver.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Oh, okay...THAT may be making the difference in our setups, Seminole...

I HAVE MY HDMI AUDIO SET TO "ON" BECAUSE I'M SENDING EVERYTHING OVER HDMI.....

[bluseminole]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

Boy...is this getting ANY easier????

Ha....probably not til September, when the Sony 550 comes out--at least for me.

I get what you're saying--it just doesn't make any sense at all, for two reasons. First, that's not how my player acts, and they should be the same, right???
Second, it doesn't make sense that the DTS setting doesn't control what is seen as a DTS track by the player. It's counterintuitive...the DTS-HD HR setting should only affect DTS-HD HR tracks. That's not the best implementation on Panasonic's part.

Plus, it's pretty poor that people like you who use HDMI (which is probably most users) can't get full DTS-HD HR and bitstream DTS without switching the setting depending on the title. That would make me very unhappy with Panasonic. Have you ever played an HR disc?

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

I know what you're saying, but I had this discussion for countless, tireless pages on sites like AVS, etc. and it was the conclusion that yes, for some reason, Panasonic chose to use the DTS-HD selection for controlling DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO tracks...

I felt the same way as you at first -- that why shouldn't DTS be handled by the DTS output selection of the player? BUT FOR SOME ODD REASON, Panasonic I guess chose to recognize the DTS-HD selection for controlling Master Audio perhaps because "DTS-HD" is PART of "DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO" recognition...