Official OLED Q&A Thread

[Robert Zohn]

I wanted to answer some unanswered questions and issues pertaining to OLED TVs. From reading several other forums I've found some unanswered and incomplete information, which I will put here so we can discuss this topic with clarity and accuracy.

Most of the questions are related to LG's current and new 4K Ultra HD OLED TVs. One unanswered or incorrectly answered questions is in regard to the undefeatable noise reduction circuitry (assuming LG does not correct this with a firmware fix) how it will look on the upcoming 65EC9700 4K OLED display. Here's the actual answer:

I first asked David Mackenzie who explained that assuming the same code is used from the 55EC9300 for the 65EC9700 how much noise reduction we can see on the 4K version depends on if the noise reduction processing is applied before the scaling to 4K or after the image is scaled. If the noise reduction is processed before the image is scaled the loss of resolution will be noticeable and if the noise reduction is applied after the image is scaled to 4K the noise reduction will be barely noticeable.

Of course, all of this is a non-issue if you sit 6' or further from the 65" screen as even Superman could not see the very minimal digital noise reduction that is undefeatable when the value is set to low.

Now here's the good news, from what I am told; digital noise reduction processing is done post scaling.

I'll post a few more popular questions that I may be able to add value to with the accurate answers shortly.

Any questions or comments?

-Robert

[vinnie97]

Hello, Robert! Good to see you...is there a technical reason behind the WOLED tech being employed that prevents them from making it optional altogether? It otherwise seems like a stubborn stance for LG to take on an "issue" that could save them a lot of headaches from the anally retentive among us.

[vinnie97]

Right, I'm already aware of the RGB vs WOLED differences and the commercial and practical advantages of the latter, though I don't think it is fully refined (poor grayscale uniformity on my 9800 resulting in some unevenness near black but fortunately visible on rare occasions for the most part). However, I like it so much that I'm ditching my ZT60 in hopes of getting the 65 or 77" in the near future! I was more recently interested in the thin veneer of DNR that LG has hardwired into the 9300 and the associated maniacal squawking in response to the HDTVTest and Consumer Reports reviews.

It just seems LG has a history of implementing hardwired DNR across multiple product lines, and I haven't heard of any reasonable justification for it. It seems to me it would take a (simple?) firmware fix to address this "malady" and silence the loudest critics over what amounts to little more than videophiliac minutiae.

[schan1269]

LG shouldn't be singled out for undefeatable DNR.

I was at a Worst Buy a few weeks ago...and not making this up(and probably accounts for the majority of the DNR)...

"OLED is just a fancier LED..."

A clerk should be immediately fired for stuff like that.

[Ken Ross]

Hi Robert, happy to be here and thanks for the invite.

Like Vinnie (hey Vinnie!), I'd like to know why LG appears to have this obstinate stance on non-defeatable DNR.

Like most others that have seen or own the LG OLED, and despite thinking of myself as a pretty discerning viewer, I've never seen evidence of it in actual viewing in-store or even at the shootout. However now that the pixel peepers have released zoomed in pictures, you can see the circuit in action despite the fact that at viewing distance you can't. I've never been a pixel peeper and don't get overly concerned about the minutiae.

My real concern is, given what appears to be the fragility of OLED's future, that OLED could develop a bad rap for something so trivial. We don't want to see the general public walk away from OLED with some of the inane fears they were told about plasma (you need to refill the plasma 'gas', burn-in is inevitable etc.)

It 'seems' like such an incredibly easy engineering task to provide a simple on/off switch for DNR. I think many of us would love to know if there's some inherent issue that's preventing LG from doing this or, better yet, that they're working on a fix.

We really need to get this off the table not only to silence the anal retentive among us, but to give the owner a choice.

[Ken Ross]

Yes Robert, please ask about the latest ETA of the 77" UHD OLED. Thanks

[Robert Zohn]

Ken, will do. As of my last update they are still on track to release the first allocation of 65" EC97000 the week of 11/24 and 77EG9700 are one month later, so end of December.

I'll get an update at our LG dinner meeting this Thursday and post what I learn.

-Robert

[NARMAK]

Hi Robert, thanks for setting this thread up.

I've been reading reviews on OLEDs as I find the PQ in terms of black levels, colour saturation etc. truly does make it the next evolution in display technology BUT one area which they seem to fall down in and surprised me was motion resolution.

Why is it OLEDs at present can only match LCDs in motion resolution without motion compensation technology?

I always assumed motion resolution would match Plasma, if not even exceed it in clarity, yet it's nowhere close. OLED was meant to take the best of LCDs and Plasma and exceed them, yet it seems there are issues at certain holding it back.

I'm just hoping this is part and parcel of the inteo phase, and future generations will be what we've always envisaged in a 'perfect' package.

[Robert Zohn]

We need a higher authority to join in on this thread, but all display technologies are tied to the line voltage 60Hz heartbeat. So an equal multiple of 60 x per cycle is best to reproduce the exact frequency.

Plasma gets a free pass by taking the 60Hz and converting it to a nice easy to integrate multiple of x10 to speed up the frames to 600fps.

Hope I got this right. Hopefully someone will correct some of this soon.

So to carry on, although, OLED works more like a PDP, being an emmisive display, where each pixel is a light source, the OLED display somehow inherited the 60Hz or a max of 120Hz fq of what plagues LCD displays.

With all this said, I don't see an issue with motion resolution on OLED displays.

-Robert

[vinnie97]

Black frame insertion would go a long ways in resolving the limited motion resolution (max of 600p on the LG OLED 55" panels). Since there is no compensation built into the LGs to increase it (for unknown reasons), you will get a bit more persistent-based (natural-looking) motion blur than plasma or a panel that uses BFI. It's a tradeoff I don't mind making.

[HDTV1080P]

When it comes to frame rate plasmas use 60Hz (60fps). Some plasmas like Pioneer and LG also use 72Hz (72fps) for 2-D 1080p/24 source material. Many of the high-end Samsung and Panasonic plasmas use 96Hz for 2-D 1080p/24 material.

OLED has resolution motion issues when compared to the discontinued plasmas, however when it comes time to upgrade my 1080P Pioneer plasma, I plan on getting a 4K OLED display since it is the best flat panel screen technology available in terms of picture quality (also interested in a 4K projector in the future).

Over the years, LG has turned itself into a high-end consumer electronics company. LG is the the only one releasing a 4K OLED so far. I would like to see some competition in the market when it comes to OLED displays. I hope that in the future more consumer electronics manufactories might develop OLED displays. Samsung has no new models planned this year. LG has become the market leader in OLED screen technology.



Some of the latest plasmas have a 600Hz Sub Field Drive

The following are select quotes from article:

“Thus, for example, a 60Hz plasma panel can have 10 pulses per frame, to display the image. Effectively, the screen is being refreshed 60Hz times 10 pulses/frame which gives us a value of 600Hz.”

“While the subfield drive terminology is a bit misleading as each frame is not being updated 600 times a second, it still portrays the inherent advantage of Plasma TVs when it comes to fast moving content due to its near instantaneous pixel response times.”

[vinnie97]

Watching 24fps side-by-side on the ZT60 I just sold and the LG OLED (9800), I had trouble making out any motion differentiation whatsoever (the uniformity near black on the other hand is where the plasma shined). With 60 fps content, I have a feeling these two beasts would be much easier to differentiate motion-wise (with the nod going to the plasma of course).

[NARMAK]

Thanks for the explanation regarding motion resolution on OLED vs Plasma. I do hope they find a way to make it better on OLEDs and match what Plasma did, because I have a Plasma atm and its definitely a cut above native LCD motion.

Of course, the PQ far outstrips anything available. So i hope to upgrade once prices drop and the tech is even more refined.

[waaimasjien.]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

We've also been seeing some nice firmware updates, like undefeatable sharpening is now fixed and motion resolution is improved. Next up DNR, then 20 point settings fixed.

Is the DNR/20point calibration part a hope/prediction or did they actually confirm they're working on this?

Also, thank you so much for this thread! Lots of misinformation and wild speculation being spread on the production and delivery problems, so it's great to hear from someone who actually knows about this stuff. I look forward to the OLED 4K event webcast!

If the DNR and calibration issues are fixed I'm probably gonna bite when LG releases a flat 65" next year.

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks waaimasjien, yes they are working on 20 point settings and DNR so I'm hopeful for a firmware update on the 55EC9300 and for these issues to be resolved in the 65EC9700 and 77EG9800.

Just got a preview of most TV manufacturers 2015 line-ups and LG has many new OLED flat and gently curved displays planned. Of course, what we'll soon see at CES does not launch until summer/fall 2015.

Keep the questions, comments and suggestions coming.

-Robert

[vinnie97]

^Loving the sound of that!

[vinnie97]

Still anticipating the 77" allotment by the end of the month as well?

[BaerGriggs]

LG has made a few announcements about their CES lineup in a few days, there's some really great information here.



Apparently the flagship models will be utilizing deca-core processors?! And the most expensive model (EG9900) will have the ability to switch between curved and flat screen configurations!

[Robert Zohn]

Just built and uploaded a [https://nebula.wsimg.com/41c17ac3fe4...worigin=1].pdf data sheet on LG's 77" 4K OLED TV.[/URL]

Take a look to learn more about this new TV that is just shipping to a very select group of LG authorized dealers.

Enjoy!

-Robert

[Midnight Rambler]

Recent news reports say that LG has had to shut down their OLED line due to a gas leak ... it was nitrogen IIRC.