Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Ernest Rister]

Im still trying to figure out WTF "the force awakens means". Like where did it go?

When the last film ended, there were only two people alive with force powers...one Jedi (Luke) and his untrained sister (Leia). If you believe that guy's alleged spoiler dump from a couple of months ago

[Show spoiler], after two decades, the Force begins to manifest itself again in several characters -- people in their young adulthoods who previously had no knowledge of it. Think of it like an entity calling out and people begin to hear the song. Hence the title -- the Force Awakens.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

When the last film ended, there were only two people alive with force powers...one Jedi (Luke) and his untrained sister (Leia). If you believe that guy's alleged spoiler dump from a couple of months ago

[Show spoiler], after two decades, the Force begins to manifest itself again in several characters -- people in their young adulthoods who previously had no knowledge of it. Think of it like an entity calling out and people begin to hear the song. Hence the title -- the Force Awakens.

You sure its not just Luke waking up on the wrong side of the bed?

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Terminated

You're right we need to wait and see when the movie comes out..but there are people out there that (who will admit that it was good) when it releases will bash it just for the sake of fitting in.

Then there are those who bash a movie endlessly for more than a year leading up to it, who then pay to see it multiple times in a theater just so they can tell you how right they were all along.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by EvaDK

More than anything, the prequels suffer from George Lucas writing the entire thing himself without any creative input from other experienced screenwriters/storytellers to bounce off, something that imo was absolute vital for the success for the Star Wars OT sequels and the Indiana Jones films.

People mention the cast of the OT returning for The Force Awakens as a major selling point and that's fine. Lawrence Kasdan is my unsung hero though and if anyone can breathe life into Lucas' characters and make them memorable for the ages, the guy who fleshes out the scripts for The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders Of The Lost Ark sure fits the bill.

Indeed. JJ worries me somewhat, but Kasdan gives me hope. What GL does bring to the table are exciting new directions and interesting ideas (some better than others). I'm psyched for this movie, but my fear is shot-for-shot remakes of iconic Star Wars moments in the name of nostalgia. JJ is very talented, but he's not particularly subtle.

[stvn1974]

I wonder if the Emperor will show up in the film as a force ghost? If Anakin could at the end of Jedi then it would only make sense that the Emperor would be able too.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I wonder if the Emperor will show up in the film as a force ghost? If Anakin could at the end of Jedi then it would only make sense that the Emperor would be able too.

I think only the Jedi have learned that power...Sith want to hang on to life, Jedi "let go" and join with the Force.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I think only the Jedi have learned that power...Sith want to hang on to life, Jedi "let go" and join with the Force.

But this makes no sense with Anakin. In Sith Yoda tells Obi Wan that he Qui Gon has learned how to communicate through the Force (or something like that) and that he will teach him how to do it. Seems like it would take more than the 3 minutes to learn that Anakin had between dying and showing up 30 years younger.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Indeed. JJ worries me somewhat, but Kasdan gives me hope. What GL does bring to the table are exciting new directions and interesting ideas (some better than others). I'm psyched for this movie, but my fear is shot-for-shot remakes of iconic Star Wars moments in the name of nostalgia. JJ is very talented, but he's not particularly subtle.

I concur! That is what gives me real hope. Even though I detested the Star Trek reboots I loved JJ's film Super 8 and thought he was very accurate with the portrayal of the kids of my generation.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

When the last film ended, there were only two people alive with force powers...one Jedi (Luke) and his untrained sister (Leia). If you believe that guy's alleged spoiler dump from a couple of months ago

[Show spoiler], after two decades, the Force begins to manifest itself again in several characters -- people in their young adulthoods who previously had no knowledge of it. Think of it like an entity calling out and people begin to hear the song. Hence the title -- the Force Awakens.

That's a good analysis (although I could argue that there were only two people alive with force powers that we know about - there could have been thousands of others in the galaxy) and you might be spot on, but it could be a lot simpler than that. It could be that Luke has been in hiding or "off the grid" for 20 years and Leia never really developed her use of the Force.

Something triggers Luke to use the Force again, whether it's a personal threat to him or family or his feeling of the presence of someone using the Dark Side or whatever. Therefore "The Force" has been reawakened.

I know there are arguments that "the Force" always exists, but I think people who argue that are taking it all too literally. It would be the same as complaining about a character who says, "I can breathe again". And the title is just as much about re-awkening the franchise after 10+ years as it is about any plot of the new film.

------
IMO, expectations are already set too high for the new film. I don't care who the filmmaker is - pick any filmmaker, living or not, from all of film history: no one can make it as exciting as the first two films because it was all totally new to us then (even though the stories were derived from a combination of Saturday morning cliffhangers and traditional myths) and it can never be new to us again. Now that cinema is well over 100 years old and we've been living in the CGI era for over 10 years, I think it's very hard to present something new to older people since big special effect explosions and battles now seem so passé and they've become unemotional after seeing them in so many films. (Obviously for kids and very young people, it might be all new to them.)

I can think of only two recent films that have been surprising and totally different:
- Boyhood, because it was shot with the same cast over 12 years.
- Birdman, because it's presented as if the entire movie was one continuous shot. (Even with CGI, I can't figure out how they accomplished it.).

The Force Awakens might give us some interesting new characters, perhaps some interesting new environments and hopefully a lot better storytelling and dialog, but to expect anything radically new is to expect too much, IMO. Having said that, I really liked the first Star Trek reboot (I know Trekkies didn't) and if that level of freshness is brought to the Star Wars franchise, I think I'd be satisfied (and as long as time travel isn't part of the plot).

Since it's so easy to post criticisms without reasoned and logical arguments informed by literature, art, history and the history of cinema and criticism, the makers are going to get slammed no matter what they do. This should be obvious considering that people are already criticizing the movie.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

But this makes no sense with Anakin. In Sith Yoda tells Obi Wan that he Qui Gon has learned how to communicate through the Force (or something like that) and that he will teach him how to do it. Seems like it would take more than the 3 minutes to learn that Anakin had between dying and showing up 30 years younger.

Anakin dies willingly, so did Yoda and Obi-Wan. As for Qui-Gon, he was skewered, but may have "let go" in his final moments. He didn't disappear, that's for sure. All we know is that he was chatting with Yoda through the Force from time to time, and no one taught him that.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

That's a good analysis (although I could argue that there were only two people alive with force powers that we know about - there could have been thousands of others in the galaxy) and you might be spot on, but it could be a lot simpler than that. It could be that Luke has been in hiding or "off the grid" for 20 years and Leia never really developed her use of the Force.

Something triggers Luke to use the Force again, whether it's a personal threat to him or family or his feeling of the presence of someone using the Dark Side or whatever. Therefore "The Force" has been reawakened.

"Spoiler Dump Guy" had this to say on that...

[Show spoiler]Luke isn't in exile, and hasn't been driven mad with God-like powers. He's off somewhere training a core group of new, young Jedi, but because of what happened in the past, he doesn't want the Jedi involved in the long and continuing war. He thinks it was a mistake for the Jedi to be used as a police force for a government, and so he refuses to take part. It's kinda the old saw about evil flourishing when good men do nothing. But then, sure, something happens, and then Luke and his crew get engaged and kick all sorts of ass.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Since it's so easy to post criticisms without reasoned and logical arguments informed by literature, art, history and the history of cinema and criticism, the makers are going to get slammed no matter what they do. This should be obvious considering that people are already criticizing the movie.

'This movie sucks' or 'jesus, that was freaking boring' might not be all that eloquent but they can be every bit as valid as reasoned and logical arguments informed by literature, art, history and the history of cinema and criticism.

"I don't know art but I know what I like" is often used as a punchline but there's a reasonable enough position in there.

Replace art with entertainment and reasonable becomes practically unassailable.

[chip75]

I wonder if the Force is no longer used? it's become too dangerous because of the Empire and their ability to track its wielders? In the new film things might get so bad that Luke needs to reignite that Jedi magic, waking it up?

The titles are never that important anyway but the new one seems open to a lot of interpretation.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by dyne

As long as Abrams doesn't add in a lot of things just for the sake of kids (Jar Jar), his movies will already be a million times better than the PT in my eyes. He did just fine with Star Trek (even if those can be loosely considered remakes of existing movies).

I'm starting to worry that he might go a little too far in the other direction - ie add too many things just for the sake of old-timers.

I'm very excited at the thought of seeing X-Wings and the Millennium Falcon again. Han, Leia, Luke...welcome back, one and all. Can't wait to see them again.

Buuuuuuuuuut...

One of my biggest gripes about Return of the Jedi was the sense that it was a collection of Star Wars moments with no real purpose or direction. The speeder bikes seemed like nothing more than a gimmicky way to work in a chase sequence or three. The Death Star and the trench felt like retreads because, well, they were.

And while I generally like the approach JJ took with the two Trek films there were definitely some fairly significant moments and references that felt very forced and unnatural.

I don't expect that here but to be totally honest that trench run image - while very, very cool - has me a little nervous.

[Braktastic]

I didn't see this posted here. This is a fascinating Star Wars essay. It's quite long but worth the read:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

"Spoiler Dump Guy" had this to say on that...

[Show spoiler]Luke isn't in exile, and hasn't been driven mad with God-like powers. He's off somewhere training a core group of new, young Jedi, but because of what happened in the past, he doesn't want the Jedi involved in the long and continuing war. He thinks it was a mistake for the Jedi to be used as a police force for a government, and so he refuses to take part. It's kinda the old saw about evil flourishing when good men do nothing. But then, sure, something happens, and then Luke and his crew get engaged and kick all sorts of ass.

Who is "Spoiler Dump Guy"

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Samus Aran

Then there are those who bash a movie endlessly for more than a year leading up to it, who then pay to see it multiple times in a theater just so they can tell you how right they were all along.

Nothing wrong with that if they are right. Maybe they just had the forsight

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by chip75

I wonder if the Force is no longer used? it's become too dangerous because of the Empire and their ability to track its wielders? In the new film things might get so bad that Luke needs to reignite that Jedi magic, waking it up?

The titles are never that important anyway but the new one seems open to a lot of interpretation.

Hmmm didnt help them track Luke to Hoth....or Dagobah.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Hmmm didnt help them track Luke to Hoth....or Dagobah.

There will be an awakening soon, and you will truly know what it means...to be awoken.

[Col. Zombie]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

"Spoiler Dump Guy" had this to say on that...

[Show spoiler]Luke isn't in exile, and hasn't been driven mad with God-like powers. He's off somewhere training a core group of new, young Jedi, but because of what happened in the past, he doesn't want the Jedi involved in the long and continuing war. He thinks it was a mistake for the Jedi to be used as a police force for a government, and so he refuses to take part. It's kinda the old saw about evil flourishing when good men do nothing. But then, sure, something happens, and then Luke and his crew get engaged and kick all sorts of ass.

I bet this is what we'll end up getting when all is said and done. I think the only "conflict" Luke Skywalker will have is how "public" he wants to take the new Jedi order (not some conflict with his "god-like" powers or temptations to go to the dark side). I'm thinking he's going to be firmly embedded in the light side of the force with "kids" in training, and the "new" sith will in some way force them out.