4K Movies Releases

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Excellent interview here with the rep from DOLBY talking with avforums.

In this interview, the dolby rep says that when they are done grading the movie, the director himself or an appointed person from very high up from the film production must go and approve the dolby graded movie to ensure that it meets the directors intent. The also mention that someone who was involved in the movie helps out with the grading process too. they call it "artistic approval"

he also explains the procedure for how they go about getting the correct file to use.

he says they would go after the negative or the raw file. so in the case of pacific rim, even though the master format is 2k, the negative is redcode raw in 5k. so this would not be a 2k upscale correct?

"if you shoot raw, store the raw, and have access TO the raw, that is the perfect starting point for dolby vision"

https://www.avforums.com/video/video...ces-2016.12260

That's all very well but the CGI was rendered in 2K

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by jono3000

That's all very well but the CGI was rendered in 2K

i would think that CGI would be easier to convert to 4k. but if its true that for HDR, they are going after the raw file and not the DI, the whole 2k upscale thing has been blown out of proportion, at least with movies made over the past 4-5 years.

[Geoff D]

Sure, but it circles back to the same sticking point about 4K rebuilds of 2K mastered content in general: with the sheer abundance of digital manipulation (not just VFX) that happens with movies these days it's just not feasible to re-render (or otherwise re-fudge) every such digital shot in 4K, so on 'event' movies especially you're still dealing with a HUGE quantity of 2K material. (AFAIK Dolby aren't taking the 2K VFX files and re-compositing it with the RAW/negative footage either.) That the 2K upscaled stuff will still look good is testament to the fact that 2K isn't the devil's work to begin with.

[dvdmike]

A thought occurs, where are the extras on these sets of discs

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

A thought occurs, where are the extras on these sets of discs

probably on the 1080P version that its being bundled with. or maybe some of the extras will now be digital.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by ray0414

probably on the 1080P version that its being bundled with. or maybe some of the extras will now be digital.

That is what I was thinking.
They will need all that space to start

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

That is what I was thinking.
They will need all that space to start

And that's another reason why including a 3D (as in, 3D only) disc is folly because they don't usually have extras either. At least with the 2D BD they can have the legacy version AND extras (as worthless as most are these days ) on one platter.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And that's another reason why including a 3D (as in, 3D only) disc is folly because they don't usually have extras either. At least with the 2D BD they can have the legacy version AND extras (as worthless as most are these days ) on one platter.

Yep, they normally just have the 3d exclusive ones if they do.
Plus 480i legacy talking heads extras are waste of time on blu let alone on UHD

[Geoff D]

Ja, if the 3D has anything it's usually some sort of little exclusive short or a featurette, I can see the same thing happening with the 4K discs.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ja, if the 3D has anything it's usually some sort of little exclusive short or a featurette, I can see the same thing happening with the 4K discs.

Yep "Mastering Good Burger in 4k - doubling the order (In UHD)"

[Geoff D]

[dvdmike]

It's amazing (and worrying) how quickly my brain thought of options for the name of that feature

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

It's amazing (and worrying) how quickly my brain thought of options for the name of that feature

Dude, it was so good I thought you'd had that one stored up for a while!

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, it was so good I thought you'd had that one stored up for a while!

I actually had a choice, odd I can do that and still watch a move and post here

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Excellent interview here with the rep from DOLBY talking with avforums.

In this interview, the dolby rep says that when they are done grading the movie, the director himself or an appointed person from very high up from the film production must go and approve the dolby graded movie to ensure that it meets the directors intent. The also mention that someone who was involved in the movie helps out with the grading process too. they call it "artistic approval"

Nice interview given by Roland but like many things, the devil is in the details, so I’ll highlight a few things for further elaboration and to ferret out the ‘fudge factors’. These are not meant to be recriminations of Dolby, but rather food for thought regarding the process. Now I just watched the video clip so I’m quoting now from memory of what I just heard, so if I got anything significantly wrong, please (anyone) feel free to chime in and correct me.

Regarding the HDR mastering….Ron to the reporter -
We master in Hollywood “with the blessing and support of Hollywood studios”

A studio’s blessing is not really good enough as there is much potential for abuse, during a motion picture production, e.g. (about the 2min 45sec. timestamp) http://videos.hollywoodreporter.com/...=4680350956001 and, for that matter, far more easily after it has been finished and *in the can* and you're presenting a reiteration.

Regarding the “artistic approval” of the new HDR grade, and what that qualifies as…..Ron to reporter -

"the Director himself,
or the colorist who worked on the original title,
or, a ‘delegate’ to approve the new grade."

Well, we’ve seen before the result of “delegates” approving a new grade of Blu-rays……http://cinemalowdown.com/2012/11/cin...exclusive.html
The Dolby rep described variance in the “artistic approval” process of the new HDR grade kind of reminds me of going in for a new knee replacement because your current metallic/plastic device is getting worn out or obsolete in terms of allowed range of motion and you want/need something better.

The secretary informs you at the pre-op meeting….Sir, your new knee replacement will be re-graded (performed) by one of the following….

the surgeon, himself, who worked on your 1st knee replacement and who is most familiar with your case
or, his assistant (not an M.D. but a P.A.) who retracted tissue for him during your first surgery and even whipped his brow with a sterile towel once or twice
or, someone else who was standing in the operating room during your first surgery (but not qualified thru education and competency testing to perform surgery on anyone)

Fact is, the process of Dolby Vision (HDR) re-grading serves at the mercy of studios and studios often take the path of least resistance (proxies are cheaper and many times more available than the reel deal), so it’s up to the consumer to serve as watchdogs, that means you guys.

If there’s nothing to hide, have the person who approved the HDR re-grade listed and make that easily publicly available to the consumer (HDR enthusiasts) on the packaging or in credits or such upon viewing the content itself.

[m3racer123]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If there’s nothing to hide, have the person who approved the HDR re-grade listed and make that easily publicly available to the consumer (HDR enthusiasts) on the packaging or in credits or such upon viewing the content itself.

That's a good idea, but I'm not sure 'consumer' is synonymous with 'HDR enthusiasts' - 99.9% of the general population, even those buying UHD BDs, couldn't care less about who oversaw the HDR colour grading.

Similar to video bitrates etc - they're not listed anywhere because most people aren't interested. That's why I have to use BDInfo to obsessively scan all my Blu-ray discs!

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by m3racer123

That's a good idea, but I'm not sure 'consumer' is synonymous with 'HDR enthusiasts' - 99.9% of the general population, even those buying UHD BDs, couldn't care less about who oversaw the HDR colour grading.

Similar to video bitrates etc - they're not listed anywhere because most people aren't interested. That's why I have to use BDInfo to obsessively scan all my Blu-ray discs!

People love that bluray teal push a whole lot

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Excellent interview here with the rep from DOLBY talking with avforums.

"if you shoot raw, store the raw, and have access TO the raw, that is the perfect starting point for dolby vision"

Ron to reporter -
“…..We’re going to the RAW files that came right out of the camera”

This is a noble approach, if such files have been saved and can be found....BIG ask with some movies. Also, I’ll remind folks that starting from RAW means you’re essentially redoing the whole motion picture over again (expensive).

So, a shout out to filmmakers (and studios) who have no present intention of producing an HDR version of their work, right now, but would like to keep their options open in the future and have their work keep abreast with technology....best follow this approach -

in other words, put out the dough now to do it right, from the get-go, as you'll have a proper master to work with - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post11150671
and it will save you money in the long run rather than staring all over again from scratch.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by m3racer123

That's a good idea, but I'm not sure 'consumer' is synonymous with 'HDR enthusiasts' - 99.9% of the general population, even those buying UHD BDs, couldn't care less about who oversaw the HDR colour grading.

Just a generic term I quickly wrote out of expediency in order to differentiate our hobbyist readers (like ray0414) from the professionals who regularly read this thread for cutting-edge goals and concepts about HDR …..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post11484556 which are waaaay beyond the realm of most reporters’ inquiring minds and the questions they ask.

Plus, you guys (the hobbyists reading) this forum actually do have more power and influence than you might think with those in the studio community....if you care to use it.

Example being the consumer feedback from The Fifth Element Blu-ray back in-the-day which directly precipitated the following being written in the 2007 American Society of Cinematographers Technology Committee Report for the SMPTE Journal in June? of that year, excerpts….

"Under typical home viewing conditions, a growing number of consumers now have a day-to-day display that provides a more critical view of HD sources than what is in popular use in the facilities that master these sources"……

“that there were some serious artifacts showing up in the process of how the down-converts (from the source) were being done to HD that were not seen on CRT monitors, and certainly not seen in standard-def. They are artifacts that got into the system at some point."

^ which served as thee impetus to change mastering practices (shifting from CRTs -> to flat panels) throughout not just Sony, but the rest of Hollywood post houses…and beyond.

All facilitated by proactive hobbyists/consumers and one caring professional technologist.

[Adrian Wright]

Anyone know where / when the Warner Bros UHD BD's will be available for preorder please? Already pre-ordered most of the Fox and Sony titles