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Old 04-15-2016, 08:36 PM   #1001
Derb Derb is offline
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Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
The smartphone games already show a changing trend with Nintendo. They have a stockpile of money, but they can't afford many more consoles like the Wii U.
Unfortunately, yes they can. In fact they could screw up the next 4 generations & still bank on their 2042 console as a savings grace.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:41 PM   #1002
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Unfortunately, yes they can. In fact they could screw up the next 4 generations & still bank on their 2042 console as a savings grace.
Well I guess if your goal as a company is to continually lose billions of dollars and be stubborn than sure why not. What a silly goal it would be to realize you're tanking in the hardware department and just develop games. I mean honestly Nintendo is publicly traded and the goal of a company is to make money. I wish them the best, but have 4 more consoles like the Wii U would be absolutely pathetic.

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Old 04-15-2016, 08:48 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
Well I guess if your goal as a company is to continually lose billions of dollars and be stubborn than sure why not. What a silly goal it would be to realize you're tanking in the hardware department and just develop games. I mean honestly Nintendo is publicly traded and the goal of a company is to make money. I wish them the best, but have 4 more consoles like the Wii U would be absolutely pathetic.

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I wish they were not stubborn. I wish they cared about what gamers want & not themselves. If pride cost $1 billion dollars, Nintendo would buy that.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:03 PM   #1004
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This is a Tier 4 rumor which means multiple sources.

Quote:
But if the CPU is 15-30% stronger than PS4 as alluded to by LCGeek, than the GPU would need to match that bump in order to not bottleneck (Nintendo hates their bottlenecks).
The 3ds says hi. The cpu was a massive bottleneck on this one. It wasn't until the New 3DS that the cpu matched the gpu.

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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
Is it too much to hope for the NX to fail hard enough to persuade Nintendo to become a software/peripheral company? Between the Wii and Wii U I have no desire to buy another one their junky machines to play a Zelda game.
This sure is a shortsighted attitude. In any industry you don't get competition and competitive pricing until you have 3 or more choices. I for one do not want to be limited to what SONY and MS offer. I also like having a choice and having something different.
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Old 04-16-2016, 02:37 AM   #1005
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Too many bombs in a row led to Sega's downfall and can do the same to Nintendo on the hardware side..
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but the possibility is absolutely there that they become another Sega just making games for the other systems.
Sigh, I REALLY wish people would stop making the Sega comparison when talking about Nintendo's hardware sales, as if the two situations were even on the same planet of similarity.

Even during the height of Sega's popularity, their net worth was but a fraction of what Nintendo's is right now. Sega left the hardware business because it had no other choice. They were facing bankruptcy and no longer had the financial means to suppport their console. Nintendo's situation is VASTLY different!

Allow me to put this in perspective for you. Nintendo has a "war chest" of 10.5 BILLION in actual, liquid cash in the bank. They have enough cash to run a deficit of 257 million dollars for 38 straight years before it would run out. And that's just cash. That's not even factoring in the worth of their total assets. By comparison, they are in a MUCH better financial situation than Sony is, even with the success of the PS4.

Even with the failure of the WiiU, Nintendo is making a boat load off the sale of the 3DS and their Amiibo toy line. Plus their newly formed mobile division will ensure yet another very lucrative revenue stream for the company, not to mention their partnership with Universal Studios that's going to add a Nintendo-themed area in their theme parks and movie/TV licensing. So even if Nintendo's home consoles aren't their biggest money maker, they have plenty of other revenue streams to subsidize it (just like Microsoft does with their Xbox division, which has never really made them a lot of money either). Nintendo has made it very clear that they are firmly committed to the home console business and have absolutely no interest in becoming a 3rd party developer.

Nintendo is a toy and games company. This is ALL they do! So can we PLEASE end the "Sega" discussion when it comes to Nintendo? It really is asinine at this point.

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Old 04-16-2016, 06:34 AM   #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
Is it too much to hope for the NX to fail hard enough to persuade Nintendo to become a software/peripheral company? Between the Wii and Wii U I have no desire to buy another one their junky machines to play a Zelda game.
Is it too much to hope that all the people who want to play Nintendo 1st party titles would buy their consoles? Maybe then they'd get the 3rd party support that everyone uses the lack of as an excuse not to buy the system.
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:30 AM   #1007
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Heh, Nintendo could release flop after flop after flop and still have enough cash in the bank to release another 20 flops and still not be in trouble.

Nintendo is 127 years old this year, they won't be going anywhere for a very long time. We'll probably be long dead before they have any trouble like that. No matter how bad their home console scene gets the Handheld market will be more than enough to keep there profits flowing.
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:19 PM   #1008
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Another day another round of RUMOURS. Same guy as the previous lot from gaf. Salt at the ready:


Like last time, I'm using the tiered rumors where a T1 means one source told me, T2 means two, Tier 3 means 3, and Tier 4 means four or more (there are no T4 this time). I will reiterate this, I am not the source of any of this information. I am simply passing along what I heard. It should all be taken with a grain of salt and not be taken as gospel. Don't cry and flame me if by June none of this is true.

Nirolak told me to contextualize the rumors and was a fan of the tiered system, so I did it. Please read it through and enjoy. Feel free to debate it, get mad at it, get hyped by it or whatever, just know things like these can change at any time and may never come to fruition exactly how it's worded.

T3 Rumors

The NX gimmick. I uh....was told not to post this part by some people. As usual, take it with a grain of salt (although I don't know why I would be warned if it was false) I'm not under any NDA though, and well, it could end up being false. But I was told a variation of this by three different sources. I don't believe they have a reason to lie to me. Here goes....

The NX is going to have a screen controller (whether it's optional or standard I don't know) and can be used anywhere to play your home console games. The controller itself will not have any processing capabilities, it'll essentially be a dummy vita. It'll likely have basic OS functions to access the NX console from anywhere, like a tiny cpu. Nintendo will use enhanced Wii U gamepad streaming tech, and allow the controller to be taken anywhere, connect to the NX console at home (likely through Wi-fi or personal hotspots and the NX console will likely have to be in stand-by mode). Basically, it's remote play built into the box and won't require a $200 add-on to experience it. This is likely what Kimishima meant in his interview with Sankei (http://www.sankei.com/west/news/1601...030012-n1.html) "different way to play with a dedicated machine" and the whole "new way to experience games" mantra that's been going around Nintendo PR.

Speculation: Nintendo could also sell personal hotspot usb adapters to get internet anywhere and plug either directly into the controller or a wall outlet to not drain the controller battery. The Supplementary Computing Devices may actually be portable hotspot devices with chips in it to boost the quality of the stream. (Maybe the NX will be called the Stream, a speculated final name during the WUST's).

Note: This does not mean there will not be a handheld. This isn't meant to be a replacement for the handheld as there will still be limitations and the controller won't have a full OS or the capability for physical game media (discs or cartridges). The needs of a handheld won't be fully met with this feature. It's just a nice add-on.

T2 Rumors

Luigi's Mansion 3 is in development for NX. This rumor gained popularity awhile ago from Geno but this isn't my source. This was a T1 to start but today I got another source to give some info on it. Two different sources have told me that it is in development for NX, and one source said it's being developed by Next Level Games, who is big enough to do this and Federation Force at the same time. One source said it started as a Wii U game but after the disappointing performance of the Wii U and the scheduled release date for the game being late in the console's cycle, Nintendo decided to switch development over to NX. (basically the same situation as Zelda for Wii U, but no word on if this game will also get a Wii U version). The other source said it's a pretty big deal (he didn't elaborate if he meant Nintendo is making it a big deal or his workplace is). To support this, http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...edits_the_post
an employee stealth edited his post last year.


T1 Rumors

The NX will use a custom Polaris-like GPU. Likely will be on a FinFET 14nm fabrication node. The source told me it's on the same architecture with heavy customizations of course . It will contain the feature set of Polaris. It is "marginally better than the PS4" and theoretically could be "2x the power of PS4 GPU". I asked about PS4K being rumored to have a gpu 2x as powerful as the OG PS4 and how the theoretical performance of the NX would be and was told "Theoretically it could be close to the PS4K rumored specs". Of course, we know nothing of Polaris or the PS4K specs, but he gave that metric.

I'm going to paraphrase here, but one comment from a source about the power of NX was that "Dev's could port over a PS4 game easily and have power to spare. Even the most demanding ones". My own theory is any game that dips below 30fps on PS4 will likely stay at 30fps on NX and maybe have some enhanced effects.

One feature he highly touted, which improves performance greatly in games, especially graphically demanding ones such as AAA open world games is Primitive Discard Accelerator. A TechGAF member described it as
Quote:
"designed to perform culling of triangles before they hit the geometry processor. Effectively, what this means is that it runs through the triangles (also known as primitives) as they hit the GPU and tests them to see if they're actually going to be visible on the screen or not (with a variety of tests), then throws out the triangles that aren't going to be on screen (i.e. discards them or culls them).

Now, this is a good thing, pretty much regardless of the type of game. Attempting to render triangles that aren't actually going to end up in the final image is a waste of GPU resources, and preventing that would be a pretty good thing. One of EA's Frostbite developers actually just gave a talk on this at GDC (PDF link, very technical), where they describe the software-based culling methods used in Frostbite. In their test scene, they could throw out over 75% of triangles before hitting the geometry engine, resulting in an almost 20% performance improvement. AMD have also recently released their own software-based culling solution, GeometryFX, which like Frostbite runs as software on the GPU's shader units. Hence, they're obviously interested in the problem of triangle culling, so it wouldn't be surprising if they developed a hardware unit to perform it more efficiently."
This was great to hear, but I asked if it was possible to get this feature set on 28nm GPU's since those are more established and cheaper than 14nm and there isn't a yield risk on those.
"Well, from a purely theoretical perspective, any "Polaris exclusive" feature could be adapted to a 28nm process. Work on Polaris had likely been going on for about a year or so when work on NX started, so it is in theory possible that they said to AMD "Hey, we like this primitive discard accelerator thing, can we have it on our planned 28nm chip?". The issue with this is that Nintendo would have had to fork over quite a lot of extra R&D dollars to get a functional block "back-ported" to 28nm, compared to components from existing GCN 1.2 chips, which were already ready to go for TSMC's 28nm process. The other issue is the assumption that the primitive discard accelerator is single functional block that can be just pulled wholesale out of Polaris. It could be an integral part of the geometry processor or command processor, or the manner in which it operates could depend on the newer geometry or command processors in Polaris. This would mean that you'd need to port the bulk of Polaris's improvements back to 28nm, or do a substantial amount of redesign work on the primitive discard accelerator to get it to work in a GCN 1.2-era chip (either of these would add substantially more R&D cost).

It's impossible to say how much it would cost them in the scheme of things, but it does seem like an unusual added expense over just taking existing GCN 1.2 tech, which would still be a generation ahead of the competition."

So with this quote, while it's not confirmed, it is highly likely Nintendo is using a 14nm Polaris GPU in the NX based off of the expensive nature of using PDA or any Polaris feature set and putting it on a 28nm chip.
If Nintendo does go with 14nm, it is very likely they will be taking a loss on each NX sold, but we don't know the dealings AMD have with Nintendo. Once source told me "AMD may have been desperate enough for the business to offer Nintendo, say, the first year's supply at a fixed price, to reduce Nintendo's yield risk. They may also have specifically pushed Nintendo into a 14nm Polaris-based chip, as it would allow Nintendo to also use a Polaris-based 14nm chip for the handheld. This would not only be a big business win for AMD in itself (Nintendo's handhelds typically sell a lot more than their home consoles), but it would also big a big PR win for them, by showing their ability to compete in the ultra-low TPD sector, which is a market they've made pretty much no traction in up until now."
.

So 14nm is still likely in 2016 and Nintendo could still sell it at a reasonable price and not lose too much money or even break even.

tl;dr The NX GPU is using features that are debuting on the Polaris chip, and is therefore heavily speculated to be a Polaris chip, as that would work well in a handheld too and help AMD prove they can make low wattage chips with good performance for small devices. (GCN 1.3, Vulkan, Primitive Discard Accelerator, etc)

Nintendo is using Vulkan with NX. This goes hand in hand with using a Polaris-based GPU, and goes with the announcement of Nintendo joining Kronos. But the dev I spoke to about the GPU, who is porting a PS4 game to NX said Vulkan is not ready yet (as of the 2015 December SDK, should be an update in May) and they are using a variation of the PS4 API, GMNX, until Vulkan is ready. Nintendo providing some nice tools like GMNX to help devs port from PC, XBox and PS4 to NX.

Most dev kits won't be given until Nintendo formally reveals the NX. As my previous post indicated, Nintendo is none too happy with the leaks and is keeping things on lockdown. Outside of close partners and internal teams, most devs are using SDK's until the NX reveal. Not a big deal, but I was told specs are pretty much final as of now, and the May update will likely be for the final spec sheet and not target specs.

MercurySteam has a dev kit and is making an already announced game for the NX. The only announced game they have is Raiders of the Broken Planet, currently under development for PS4, XB1 and PC. This is likely it. (Take this one as a T0.5).

Final Fantasy XV on NX. My single source on this said he's heard more of his sources mention it's coming to NX. No idea when. I pressed for FFVIIR but nobody has heard about it. Gaf's very own mod Kagari hinted that Sony may have co-funded it and it may never get released outside of PS4 and PC (like Street Fighter V).

NX will likely launch at different times per region. Only heard this from one source but it does make sense if the NX does use 14nm chips, as there's a risk of not having enough of those chips ready on shelves for holiday 2016.

No regions were specified, but one would assume with the slow adoption of consoles in Japan, and the popularity of handhelds over there, the NX will launch in the west first like some past Nintendo consoles (consoles are more popular outside of Japan). Likely North America and Europe.

There are lots of NX games in development. Once source told me to post this so I won't edit it at all
Quote:
"And you can quote me on this on GAF too: "I think NX software output is going to blow away Wii U. There's a LOT of games in development. I don't know if we'll see all of them at E3, since a lot of Wii U projects weren't announced until January 2013, but I'm very impressed so far with what I'm hearing."
New IP are being developed. I asked this because I noticed some complaints about how there were no leaks about new IP and NX was looking like another Mario/Zelda factory with a bunch of remasters and ports. The source said "I'm not allowed to give specifics, but that's a sure bet."

Now if you'll excuse me, two well dressed Japanese men are at my door.
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:23 PM   #1009
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Speculative name of "Stream" Hmm, I wonder if it will be called the Wii Stream....
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Old 04-16-2016, 03:52 PM   #1010
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Would love for the Luigi's Mansion 3 part to be real. Only game I really want from Nintendo at the moment besides Zelda.
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Old 04-16-2016, 04:38 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Speculative name of "Stream" Hmm, I wonder if it will be called the Wii Stream....
I'm willing to bet the word "Wii" will not be within a billion miles of this console.
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Old 04-16-2016, 04:40 PM   #1012
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Would love for the Luigi's Mansion 3 part to be real. Only game I really want from Nintendo at the moment besides Zelda.
Along with Mario Kart 7, it's my favorite game on the 3DS.

Here's my hope. The NX version will be called Luigi's Haunted Castle and the game will contain an absolute MASSIVE haunted gothic castle to run around in!
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Old 04-16-2016, 04:41 PM   #1013
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I'm willing to bet the word "Wii" will not be within a billion miles of this console.
Yeah, Nintendo seems to know how bad the Wii U did with the general public. I can see them keeping this far away from anything Wii related.

Though I can still see BC/VC happening.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:36 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by detective392 View Post
Yeah, Nintendo seems to know how bad the Wii U did with the general public. I can see them keeping this far away from anything Wii related.

Though I can still see BC/VC happening.
I'm not going to pretend I know for sure one way or another, but if this console is in fact using X86 architecture, I can't see BC with Wii U being a realistic option. I think instead Nintendo is going to release select "enhanced" Wii U titles on NX.

VC with Wii and 3DS titles might be a reality though as I would think those could be achieved via software emulation.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:40 PM   #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelmaker View Post
I'm not going to pretend I know for sure one way or another, but if this console is in fact using X86 architecture, I can't see BC with Wii U being a realistic option. I think instead Nintendo is going to release select "enhanced" Wii U titles on NX.

VC with Wii and 3DS titles might be a reality though as I would think those could be achieved via software emulation.
Why not? The Xbox One is x86 and the 360 wasn't yet they accomplished BC with emulation.

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Old 04-16-2016, 08:26 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
Why not? The Xbox One is x86 and the 360 wasn't yet they accomplished BC with emulation.

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Because I can't see Nintendo investing the time and resources it would take to create that kind of compatibility the way Microsoft did.

You have to remember what Microsoft is doing is not actual backwards compatibility. What they're doing is detecting proof of purchase and then they're uploading entirely reprogrammed versions of those games. The 360 discs are used specifically for detection only . It's not actually using the data off the disks to run the games. Microsoft had no other choice but to show this type of good will after the debacle of the launch of the Xbox One. There's no profit to be made from this therefore there's no way Nintendo is going to waste their time on it in my opinion

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Old 04-16-2016, 08:38 PM   #1017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelmaker View Post
I'm willing to bet the word "Wii" will not be within a billion miles of this console.
Was taking the Mick Wii Stream sounds a bit too much like someone taking a piss
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:49 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Was taking the Mick Wii Stream sounds a bit too much like someone taking a piss
LOL Sorry Mav, you totally threw that one by me!

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Old 04-16-2016, 10:05 PM   #1019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelmaker View Post
Because I can't see Nintendo investing the time and resources it would take to create that kind of compatibility the way Microsoft did.

You have to remember what Microsoft is doing is not actual backwards compatibility. What they're doing is detecting proof of purchase and then they're uploading entirely reprogrammed versions of those games. The 360 discs are used specifically for detection only . It's not actually using the data off the disks to run the games. Microsoft had no other choice but to show this type of good will after the debacle of the launch of the Xbox One. There's no profit to be made from this therefore there's no way Nintendo is going to waste their time on it in my opinion
The way you worded it made it seems as if they couldn't. I'm not debating of they will or not, but if Microsoft can make it happen it is theoretically possible Nintendo can too. I personally don't see them doing it either, but I never thought Microsoft would do it. I never thought I'd see the day Nintendo would venture off their own hardware either and that is happening.

As for Microsoft it is not BC as in the sense it has the hardware for BC like in the past, but is still software BC just like Sony has. I am aware the disc is just for ownership purposes, but the games being played are still the same games. There is no reprogrammed version of the game being played. It is the same exact game just with a wrapper on it. The Xbox One is emulating the Xbox 360 as a whole and not on a per game basis. This is a quote from Phil Spenser.

"You download a kind of manifest of wrapper for the 360 game, so we can say 'hey, this is actually Banjo, or this is Mass Effect. The emulator runs exactly the same for all the games.*

I was around when we did the original Xbox [backwards compatibility] for Xbox 360 where we had a shim for every game and it just didn't scale very well. This is actually the same emulator running for all of the games. Different games do different things, as we're rolling them out we'll say 'oh maybe we have to tweak the emulator.' But in the end, the emulator is emulating the 360, so it's for everybody."

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Old 04-16-2016, 11:42 PM   #1020
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Unfortunately, yes they can. In fact they could screw up the next 4 generations & still bank on their 2042 console as a savings grace.
Well sure, but Nintendo is a publicly traded company. After X number of major console flops you'd think there would be a shareholders revolt against management. Despite the huge cash reserves Nintendo has been a truly shitty company to own for a long time now. The company's stock price is down over 60% from five years ago and worth roughly 1/4th of what it was at it's peak in 2007. Let's not pretend this is all happening in a vacuum. Nintendo management may be all about pride over the bottom line but rarely are shareholders.

https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NTDOY
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