Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Brandon K]

As a collector, I loved nice packaging, booklets, collector's editions... but while that stuff happened often with varying levels of collector's editions of DVDs, for the most part it's just gone these days.

My collection is a digital collection now but not because I've stopped buying physical media - my collection is physical and digital because I backup everything I buy for ease of watching, no wear/tear on discs, etc.

iTunes quality still kills me, I don't know why people buy from them when I believe they're the lowest quality of all the digital outlets.

In general, bandwidth and storage have caught up to physical media, it's only the distribution that isn't there. I truly believe disc-quality downloads are coming in the future. But the harder part is the second half of that: DRM-free downloads.

Once digital outlets start providing disc-quality DRM-free downloads, I'd consider digital as a means of purchase. That's the only way to convince consumers like me to go digital, consumers who want to truly own what they pay for, and for it to match the quality that they'd be getting from a disc.

Distributors will never go DRM-free? Maybe. But they're just shooting themselves in the foot if that's the case. People who pirate movies are going to pirate them anyway. Rather than spending so much time, energy and money on stopping something that you can't stop, you would be making way more money and earning more loyal customers if you focused instead on improving the product and making it hassle-free for the legitimate customers.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

In the future if they are still not selling said titles and storage is even cheaper, what incentive will they have to go into people's personal collection and start removing? It's far more likely that the cost of maintaining people's accounts is a streamlined process and taking stuff away is not priority. The idea is to keep customers happy so they continue to make digital purchases.

It isn't maintaining accounts that's expensive, it's storing hundreds of thousands of unprofitable movies. I predict that they'll start deleting unprofitable movies off of their hard drives. But they won't delete anything of your hard drives; if you already have those movies downloaded they'll probably still work but you won't be able to redownload them or stream them anymore.

The vast majority of customers will be perfectly happy with the movies that are left in their collection. The percentage of customers that actually lose a significant number of movies they care about will be very small. It's a calculated risk: will they think it's worth it to lose a few customers if it means they can save millions of dollars in storage? I think they will.

The existence of DRM is proof that customer happiness is never a top priority.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It isn't maintaining accounts that's expensive, it's storing hundreds of thousands of unprofitable movies. I predict that they'll start deleting unprofitable movies off of their hard drives. But they won't delete anything of your hard drives; if you already have those movies downloaded they'll probably still work but you won't be able to redownload them or stream them anymore.

The vast majority of customers will be perfectly happy with the movies that are left in their collection. The percentage of customers that actually lose a significant number of movies they care about will be very small. It's a calculated risk: will they think it's worth it to lose a few customers if it means they can save millions of dollars in storage? I think they will.

The existence of DRM is proof that customer happiness is never a top priority.

Let me tell you why you are entirely wrong. I've had a PLEX server for about 4 years now. Recently they have been experimenting with different cloud based services for people to store their content without reliance on their home media centers. The plan that they are working on is $60 per year for unlimited cloud storage, which means customers can store all the DRM free content they like without any worries of losing anything ever! IF PLEX can offer unlimited storage at that low price point then studios and providers like VUDU pay virtually nothing! Not to mention the fact that cloud storage costs are continuing to decrease as time goes on. So it isn't a question of cost for storage space that is going to have companies deleting movies. They are going to continue to do what they always have done, which is, mask titles they are not currently selling while people who purchased those same titles will continue to keep access. You also should keep in mind that just because something is not being offered for sale at a certain time doesn't mean it won't come back into circulation again later. Why would companies like VUDU and or movie studios bother concerning themselves with a few obscure titles in individual libraries? The big picture is continuing to make money and believe it or not deleting content from people's collections would be far more costly in the long run because it risks disheartening the base that keeps them profitable.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Brandon K

As a collector, I loved nice packaging, booklets, collector's editions... but while that stuff happened often with varying levels of collector's editions of DVDs, for the most part it's just gone these days.

My collection is a digital collection now but not because I've stopped buying physical media - my collection is physical and digital because I backup everything I buy for ease of watching, no wear/tear on discs, etc.

iTunes quality still kills me, I don't know why people buy from them when I believe they're the lowest quality of all the digital outlets.

In general, bandwidth and storage have caught up to physical media, it's only the distribution that isn't there. I truly believe disc-quality downloads are coming in the future. But the harder part is the second half of that: DRM-free downloads.

Once digital outlets start providing disc-quality DRM-free downloads, I'd consider digital as a means of purchase. That's the only way to convince consumers like me to go digital, consumers who want to truly own what they pay for, and for it to match the quality that they'd be getting from a disc.

Distributors will never go DRM-free? Maybe. But they're just shooting themselves in the foot if that's the case. People who pirate movies are going to pirate them anyway. Rather than spending so much time, energy and money on stopping something that you can't stop, you would be making way more money and earning more loyal customers if you focused instead on improving the product and making it hassle-free for the legitimate customers.

At least with iTunes, redeeming iTunes codes is more consistent than UV. By consistent I mean iTunes codes can always be redeemed through iTunes but UV codes can't always be redeemed through Vudu though most of the time can. I ended up having to create accounts with other providers besides Vudu to redeem some of my UV codes as some would not redeem through Vudu, though it was a good thing they ported over to my Vudu library via linking my accounts to my UV digital locker at least. With iTunes you don't have to deal with linking accounts when redeem iTunes codes unless you decide to redeem a DMA code through Disney instead of iTunes.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by PCFan

At least with iTunes, redeeming iTunes codes is more consistent than UV. By consistent I mean iTunes codes can always be redeemed through iTunes but UV codes can't always be redeemed through Vudu though most of the time can. I ended up having to create accounts with other providers besides Vudu to redeem some of my UV codes as some would not redeem through Vudu, though it was a good thing they ported over to my Vudu library via linking my accounts to my UV digital locker at least. With iTunes you don't have to deal with linking accounts when redeem iTunes codes unless you decide to redeem a DMA code through Disney instead of iTunes.

Bingo.

On the quality front, iTunes is much better than people give it credit for. In my experience, it depends on the studio more so than Apple. For instances, especially on newer releases, Fox's digital HD files on iTunes are simply the best I've seen from any of the studios. WB's varies in quality depending on a lot of factors, as does Disney (for Disney, I AirPlay from their app which is the absolute best digital quality I've seen from any provider). Universal and Paramount tend to be on the lower end from my experience..but again, depends on factors.

I would easily choose iTunes quality over Vudu though. Without hesitation.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Bingo.

On the quality front, iTunes is much better than people give it credit for. In my experience, it depends on the studio more so than Apple. For instances, especially on newer releases, Fox's digital HD files on iTunes are simply the best I've seen from any of the studios. WB's varies in quality depending on a lot of factors, as does Disney (for Disney, I AirPlay from their app which is the absolute best digital quality I've seen from any provider). Universal and Paramount tend to be on the lower end from my experience..but again, depends on factors.

I would easily choose iTunes quality over Vudu though. Without hesitation.

It's the bit rates that are the problem with ITunes. They are just not big enough to support a robust, compression free image IMO. I know you guys in the U.S sit around ten feet away from your display, but in the U.K our living areas are a little smaller. We tend to be six to seven feet away. It's hard to spot ANY flaws at ten feet in my opinion. I think Apple have done superbly to get the quality of video they do at such a bit rate, however I see digital shimmer, banding and micro blocking on a few films. Even bright clear images look a little 'digital' to my eyes. They are extremely watchable for rentals though.

[Talal86]

I have an android phone, but I use itunes over google play, overall it's the better store

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PCFan

At least with iTunes, redeeming iTunes codes is more consistent than UV. By consistent I mean iTunes codes can always be redeemed through iTunes but UV codes can't always be redeemed through Vudu though most of the time can. I ended up having to create accounts with other providers besides Vudu to redeem some of my UV codes as some would not redeem through Vudu, though it was a good thing they ported over to my Vudu library via linking my accounts to my UV digital locker at least. With iTunes you don't have to deal with linking accounts when redeem iTunes codes unless you decide to redeem a DMA code through Disney instead of iTunes.

I call BS on this.

In my experience it's the opposite. I've purchased about half a dozen new releases the past 2 months that when I go to redeem on the website that's on the actual slip/insert it will not redeem. So I then just look up that title on Vudu and click the redeem button and enter the code and it always works.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

99% of new music is still released on CD. There were over 25,000 new CDs released in the last 90 days in the United States.
That's amazingly good for a format that's apparently been dead for 15 years.

https://www.amazon.com/s?fst=as%3Aof...rnid=387643011

Why are you and steedeel still spouting that "CD has been dead for 15 years" BS?

I already showed that was complete BS. There were sales records from even 2004 (Usher) that stood for almost a decade until Adele set sales records.

Ipod's didn't even start to take off until 2004-2005 sales wise.

In fact CD sales were strong even 10 years ago in 2007. Remember the Kanye vs 50 cent sales war? (I know I stopped buying them in 2008 or so )

So please stop with your BS narratives.

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by PCFan

At least with iTunes, redeeming iTunes codes is more consistent than UV. By consistent I mean iTunes codes can always be redeemed through iTunes but UV codes can't always be redeemed through Vudu though most of the time can. I ended up having to create accounts with other providers besides Vudu to redeem some of my UV codes as some would not redeem through Vudu, though it was a good thing they ported over to my Vudu library via linking my accounts to my UV digital locker at least. With iTunes you don't have to deal with linking accounts when redeem iTunes codes unless you decide to redeem a DMA code through Disney instead of iTunes.

Originally Posted by flyry

I call BS on this.

In my experience it's the opposite. I've purchased about half a dozen new releases the past 2 months that when I go to redeem on the website that's on the actual slip/insert it will not redeem. So I then just look up that title on Vudu and click the redeem button and enter the code and it always works.

It is actually true in my experience, but the number of cases that won't redeem on Vudu is very small (or maybe very very small). I finally just redeemed my Batman V Superman UV code just yesterday and Vudu wouldn't take it. UVVU.com/redeem listed only Flixster as a redemption option and it redeemed fine there.

But you do make the point that UV redemption can have a lot of variability and caveats, which for us people in the know, is not a big deal, but could be an issue for the average consumer.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Why are you and steedeel still spouting that "CD has been dead for 15 years" BS?

I already showed that was complete BS. There were sales records from even 2004 (Usher) that stood for almost a decade until Adele set sales records.

Ipod's didn't even start to take off until 2004-2005 sales wise.

In fact CD sales were strong even 10 years ago in 2007. Remember the Kanye vs 50 cent sales war? (I know I stopped buying them in 2008 or so )

So please stop with your BS narratives.

I think you and I have a different idea of what 'dead' is.

It's irrelevant about difference in sales years if one can still access CD quite easily. The point I was making is that the digital fanboys have been spouting the death of disc but that's just clickbwit crap. It's only dead if we can't buy discs anymore. Any other description of dead is just silly Twitter generation crap.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Why are you and steedeel still spouting that "CD has been dead for 15 years" BS?

I already showed that was complete BS. There were sales records from even 2004 (Usher) that stood for almost a decade until Adele set sales records.

Ipod's didn't even start to take off until 2004-2005 sales wise.

In fact CD sales were strong even 10 years ago in 2007. Remember the Kanye vs 50 cent sales war? (I know I stopped buying them in 2008 or so )

So please stop with your BS narratives.

Don't know how old you are but I was absolutely reading about the death of the CD 15 years ago. It was going to be replaced by digital downloads. They were the future. Ehhhh, ok!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I call BS on this.

In my experience it's the opposite. I've purchased about half a dozen new releases the past 2 months that when I go to redeem on the website that's on the actual slip/insert it will not redeem. So I then just look up that title on Vudu and click the redeem button and enter the code and it always works.

You seem to be calling bullshit on a lot of things today.

[Steedeel]

Anyway, I'm having a break. Can't be getting into dialogue with such aggressive posts.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's the bit rates that are the problem with ITunes. They are just not big enough to support a robust, compression free image IMO. I know you guys in the U.S sit around ten feet away from your display, but in the U.K our living areas are a little smaller. We tend to be six to seven feet away. It's hard to spot ANY flaws at ten feet in my opinion. I think Apple have done superbly to get the quality of video they do at such a bit rate, however I see digital shimmer, banding and micro blocking on a few films. Even bright clear images look a little 'digital' to my eyes. They are extremely watchable for rentals though.

Even walking up to my television to check quality, in my experiences, it just depends on the digital copy that studios give to the providers.

[zorbonaut]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's the bit rates that are the problem with ITunes. They are just not big enough to support a robust, compression free image IMO. I know you guys in the U.S sit around ten feet away from your display, but in the U.K our living areas are a little smaller. We tend to be six to seven feet away. It's hard to spot ANY flaws at ten feet in my opinion. I think Apple have done superbly to get the quality of video they do at such a bit rate, however I see digital shimmer, banding and micro blocking on a few films. Even bright clear images look a little 'digital' to my eyes. They are extremely watchable for rentals though.

I love my iTunes Digital copies. I have a decent amount of UV titles as well but in my opinion iTunes HD copies better represent what my Blu-Ray's look like on my 60inch 4k tv.

[omarchafa]

I'm physical all the way because I actually care about video and audio quality. No service out there can offer the same video and audio quality as a BD disc for movies and TV shows. Even if there is, I wouldn't bother with it because I want to own the product not download it, streamed it or rent it.

I still buy audio CDs whenever I can and I even buy a whole CD just to get a certain song rather than download it from iTunes or some other crap that offers cheap audio quality.

[Talal86]

I love physical media, but digital is important too, as someone who doesn't pay for tv channels, itunes is my source for smaller shows that don't get a physical release, and there are a lot of them. if it weren't for digital, I would've missed on so many good shows

my physical purchases did slow down dramatically in the past year or 2, but that mostly have to do with the amount of re-releases/double dipping, half baked 4k releases, which I'm sure will get re-released in the near future with Dolby Vision.. that and the lack of entertainment value (imo) of newer movies, which might be worth watching once, but not something I'd like to have on my shelf

[Dustin44]

Originally Posted by flyry

I call BS on this.

In my experience it's the opposite. I've purchased about half a dozen new releases the past 2 months that when I go to redeem on the website that's on the actual slip/insert it will not redeem. So I then just look up that title on Vudu and click the redeem button and enter the code and it always works.

I agree.

I have redeemed a lot of UV codes. And I have given away and traded a lot of UV codes.

I always redeemed or tested these codes on Vudu. Only a very small number of times does a code not work on Vudu and you have to redeem it somewhere else.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Brandon K

iTunes quality still kills me, I don't know why people buy from them when I believe they're the lowest quality of all the digital outlets.

It depends on your system. Itunes looks way better then vudu on some systems. Itunes also depending on your preference has less noticeable compression then vudu or amazon. Itunes sd copies to be specific look many times better then vudu sd copies. If you have an ipad vudu wont even let you download the film in hd making iTunes clearly better for travel for ipad owners. Itunes also gives you way more extras.


Like somebody else said it also depends on the film offered. some older films still have old encodes that don't hold up as well but that's true for some vudu digital copies also.