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I try to resist extrapolating my anecdotal experiences as being representative of the whole. I can share my observations, too, but they just don't prove anything. I just don't think that the behavior I observe here in my little village of 1600 indicates anything beyond the village borders. And maybe not even within them.
I like seeing data. I want quantification. And a citation to go with it. There is so much exaggeration online that without data, it is all a big unproven mess of hearsay. The hyperbole of absolutist statements is rampant: "Discs are dead! 4K will flop! No one does this..., everyone does that..."
Who exactly is the "they" in "they say" for example? And what did "they" actually say? 73.6% of all statistics are made up; this is a famous joke where the % varies wildly because, well, it is made up. Thus, the need for citations is clear.
Incidentally, if you look at the comments in the new release announcements in the left column of the homepage, you will find examples of "day 1" and "blind buy" purchase exhortations being made frequently. I found 10 "Day 1" posts in the 4K Dunkirk announcement article alone. What does it mean? Nothing really; there is no way of knowing how many of them follow through and do it and no one is likely to take the time to poll them to find out.
I don't attend the theater very often because I dislike being in a crowd. I could easily assume that other people who don't attend frequently also dislike crowds. Personal observation and interpretation does not prove my assertion here.
Beliefs are choices we each make. We all have them, facts be damned. What I see with my two eyes does not mean that most pairs of eyeballs are seeing the same thing, yet alone drawing the same conclusion. But a fact, by definition, is indisputable. With the possible exception of spiritual/ philosophical matters, I like data, quantification, and well documented facts.
I try to resist extrapolating my anecdotal experiences as being representative of the whole. I can share my observations, too, but they just don't prove anything. I just don't think that the behavior I observe here in my little village of 1600 indicates anything beyond the village borders. And maybe not even within them.
I like seeing data. I want quantification. And a citation to go with it. There is so much exaggeration online that without data, it is all a big unproven mess of hearsay. The hyperbole of absolutist statements is rampant: "Discs are dead! 4K will flop! No one does this..., everyone does that..."
Who exactly is the "they" in "they say" for example? And what did "they" actually say? 73.6% of all statistics are made up; this is a famous joke where the % varies wildly because, well, it is made up. Thus, the need for citations is clear.
Incidentally, if you look at the comments in the new release announcements in the left column of the homepage, you will find examples of "day 1" and "blind buy" purchase exhortations being made frequently. I found 10 "Day 1" posts in the 4K Dunkirk announcement article alone. What does it mean? Nothing really; there is no way of knowing how many of them follow through and do it and no one is likely to take the time to poll them to find out.
I don't attend the theater very often because I dislike being in a crowd. I could easily assume that other people who don't attend frequently also dislike crowds. Personal observation and interpretation does not prove my assertion here.
Beliefs are choices we each make. We all have them, facts be damned. What I see with my two eyes does not mean that most pairs of eyeballs are seeing the same thing, yet alone drawing the same conclusion. But a fact, by definition, is indisputable. With the possible exception of spiritual/ philosophical matters, I like data, quantification, and well documented facts.
This was from last year. Says the average moviegoer goes only 4 times a year.
The number of ticket buyers ages 12 to 17 fell to 5.3 million in 2015, down from 5.5 million in each of the two previous years. That figure is also down from 6.3 million in 2012, according to numbers from the Motion Picture Association of America.
Last year’s 3.6 percent drop came even as theaters across the country catered to teen moviegoers: “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” “Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 2,” and “Antman,” to name a few.
There was an even bigger drop-off among moviegoers ages 18 to 24 years. Over the past three years, that group fell by more than one-third, to 5.7 million last year, down from 8.7 million in 2012
"And if MoviePass pays full freight for every admission — with data establishing the program attracts millennials at a time when younger viewers have vanished from the multiplex by 20 percent over the last five years —"
The number of ticket buyers ages 12 to 17 fell to 5.3 million in 2015, down from 5.5 million in each of the two previous years. That figure is also down from 6.3 million in 2012, according to numbers from the Motion Picture Association of America.
Last year’s 3.6 percent drop came even as theaters across the country catered to teen moviegoers: “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” “Avengers: Age of Ultron,” “Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 2,” and “Antman,” to name a few.
There was an even bigger drop-off among moviegoers ages 18 to 24 years. Over the past three years, that group fell by more than one-third, to 5.7 million last year, down from 8.7 million in 2012
"And if MoviePass pays full freight for every admission — with data establishing the program attracts millennials at a time when younger viewers have vanished from the multiplex by 20 percent over the last five years —"
The Atlantic article's prediction, made on June 8, 2016, did not come to pass. 2016 did not become the worst year for ticket sales in a century by a long shot. 2016 total ticket sales wound up at 1315.3M. 2011 was the worst year this century at 1283.0M. 1986 totaled only 1017.2M.
"This is an extrapolation based on previous years’ sales progressions, and a strong summer or fall could boost the final figures." from The Atlantic link. The sky did not wind up falling that year.
"At the same time that movies’ domestic audience flatlined, its worldwide audience bloomed. In the last five years, the Eastern Asian and Latin American markets have grown by $6 billion, while the U.S. and Canadian markets have grown by less than $1 billion." from The Atlantic link you provided. The U.S. market still showed growth, albeit anemic compared to the rest of the world.
The NY Post article shows a troubling decline among young people, especially that 18-24 age bracket. If these younger age groups continue this trend, it will start to seriously erode overall ticket sales.
Older movie goers and families with kids must have offset them as ticket sales totals were barely impacted; 2016 was down only 0.4% while 2015 was up 4.1%. The other age groups can not blunt their influence indefinitely, though.
The third link again focuses on the summer movie going season suffering steep declines, but the rest of the year is largely cancelling that out as, again, overall ticket sales for 2016 were only down 0.4%. It confirms the decline among younger viewers that the NY Post article breaks down in more detail.
2017 ticket sales are only at 979.3M with less than two full months left in the year. It will be interesting to see what impact the upcoming releases will have on it. How much can Star Wars 8 do to lift these numbers?
Someone who admittedly does not go to the movie theaters because he does not like crowds is the only person championing the health of the box office.
Jenniferlawrenceokay.gif
I am not "championing" anything. My avoidance of the cineplex does not impact my reading skills. I haven't visited the moon, either, but I can study the Apollo missions. The gif you posted is not working, btw. Please fix it so there can be something worthwhile within your response.
I have posted links to quantitative data that showed what it showed. I attempted to refute sensationalist statements like "no one goes to the movies" and "Hollywood studios are not making money", the second hand observations of unknown retail clerks, and similar unsupported absolutist claims.
You can dismiss the data and believe anything you please. I am not emotionally invested in this, just interested coupled with lots of free time to look up any and everything.
We've been to the theatre once this year, and that was to take my daughter to see Cars 3 (which we did enjoy quite a bit, even as parents). Our next trip will be to see either Thor, or we will wait until Feb to go see Black Panther (there is NO WAY I'm not seeing this in the theatre).
I just don't like being in enclosed spaces that aren't my house, and especially not with lots of other people. Pretty sure I have an undiagnosed case of claustrophobia. Anyway, it takes something very special for me to go to the movies, and it's usually not something "original".
I know this is anecdotal, but honestly my wife and I haven't been going to the theater as much as we used to, and it's largely because of the movies that are coming out.
We do go see the Marvel MCU movies (we are going to see the new Thor tomorrow night). We saw Wonder Woman, which was good. My wife isn't looking forward to Justice League, but I'll go see it (though even I'm not expecting much after Batman V Superman). I am interested in seeing I, Tonya.
But most other films this past summer were either things that we had no interest in, or if we did, it wasn't worth rushing out to the theater to see them.
Cars 3 was probably the closest that we were to going to see a movie that we ultimately skipped. Though we don't have kids, we do enjoy many Disney and Pixar movies. But neither of us were really "jumping" to go to the theater to see it. Cars 2 not being all that great didn't help (though I believe this one is supposed to be better). I will be getting the 4k Blu-Ray pack when it comes out.
Pirates 5... I just couldn't see going to the theater to see it. The first couple of movies were good, the third one was pretty bad, the 4th one was okay, but no where near as good as the first two IMO. And the films do feel like they drag a bit. So we waited for Blu-Ray. I did buy the 4K Blu-Ray combo pack of the new film (haven't watched it yet) since I do have all of the other movies, and at some point will watch it.
Despicable Me 3... though not Disney and/or Pixar, we liked the first movie a lot. The second one was alright. But going to see another film with redundant minions jokes (after they had their own movie) just wasn't something we were in a rush to see. This one will also be a blind buy.
I know the third Planet of the Apes movie came out and was largely critically acclaimed. But I never really got into any version of PotA, so this wasn't something I had any desire at the time to see. Having heard good things about the more recent films, I did pick up the 4k Trilogy set at Walmart since it was only $40. So I'll be giving these a chance in the near future.
Most everything else either looked like crap or just something I wasn't interested in.
The new Mummy? The trailers and ads did absolutely nothing for me. And I actually liked the first two Brendan Fraiser movies. This just seemed very "phoned in" for lack of a better way of putting it.
Transformers 5? No thanks. I gave up after the second movie. The first one was alright. The second was crap. Most reviews and opinions of the following films don't make them sound like enough of an improvement for me to have any remote desire to see them.
Baywatch? I'm not surprised it bombed. Even for a movie that was more or less making fun of the show, it seemed to fail to capture the essence of it (not that it was exactly a high brow show to start with). I was semi interested at first, but that quickly waned, especially after reviews came out. I have not purchased it or seen it at all yet. I'm in no hurry to change that.
I won't go over each and every movie that came out, but overall it was mostly a crap shoot IMO. Most of it just feels like phoned-in redundant drivel. If it's not a sequel or remake of an established film or franchise, it still feels not far off (I'm thinking of many of the comedy films that came out this summer... I'm actually a big comedy fan, that genre is a huge part of my collection, but most that have come out any time recently have just not been of interest to me).
Hollywood has a few problems on it's hands. They need to give filmmakers freedom to make good movies. They need to stop having absurd budgets for any and all "blockbuster" films. Sure, some of them need it. It would be hard to pull of the Marvel or Star Wars films without them. But not all "big" films have to cost $250 million dollars to make.
While I know the scale of budgets and box office returns is much higher these days, when you look back at the mid 70s through the 80s, which was more or less the "birth" of the blockbuster, most of the big movies were inadvertent. Both Jaws and the original Star Wars were movies that their directors had to fight to get made and were plagued with technical problems throughout production, but ultimately went on to be huge.
Back to the Future shares some similarities. While it didn't suffer from major technical, special effects related issues, it was a movie that Bob Gale and Robert Zemeckis tried for several years to get made (it was only after Zemeckis directed Romancing the Stone, which did well, was he able to make BTTF).
Ghostbusters wasn't envisioned as a "big" summer blockbuster, but became one.
These are just a few examples. Even when adjusting for infation, their budgets were no where near that of movies today. And I know times and technology have changed. But while an occasional special effect here and there might look dated, for the most part these films still hold up relatively well.
And the thing that these films all have in common is that the people who made them were passionate about doing so, and the end result were some really great movies (and in some cases some great sequels). The special effects were there to support the story and characters, not be the end all, be all aspect of these movies.
That's what filmmaking needs to get back to, at least to some extent. Sometimes having a smaller amount of really well thought out special effects is better than just being bombarded with tons of random effects left and right to the point where it almost loses all meaning (I'm looking at your, Michael Bay Transformers films).
I get that studios want a "guaranteed hit" and don't want to bank on new films and ideas that may not catch on. But the problem is that the "Hollywood Machine" has gotten so predictable and redundant that the "guaranteed hits" are no where near as "guaranteed" anymore.
They need to find a happy medium. Find an idea that the filmmaker is passionate about. Give it a reasonable budget (enough to make the film, but nothing insanely expensive), let the effects play more of a supporting role, get a decent advertising campaign, and see what happens. If the budget is low enough, even if the film under performs, it shouldn't be too hard to at least make the money back in time. And if it does even half decent, it could be profitable. If it goes on to be a huge hit, then of course that is fantastic. But they need to stop assuming that throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at any pre-existing brand/franchise will be default result in huge profits.
I don't hate the cinemas as such but I am not a regular cinema goer either. The reason for that previously was the high cost of cinema tickets beforehand. But that argument has apparently gone down the toilet as two local cinema chains near me in Ireland offer unlimited movie cards for a certain fee per month. I guess it all depends on whether it gives good value for me. If I either see a movie or not in the cinema; I will buy it on Blu-ray regardless in a home video store. I did buy a Blu-ray recently on Wednesday which was Adam West's final movie; Batman vs Two Face. I will be going to the cinema with my mother this weekend as it's her birthday on Sunday. She will love to see Goodbye Christopher Robin on her birthday which is about the origin story of Winnie the Pooh. She loved that character when she was a kid as she used to be a fan of the TV series & the books from years ago.
The crowds at the cinema when I see movies in Dublin do vary in size from time to time. I don't mind that in itself. But when I go to see the big tent pole movies at the cinema on day 1 of release; the audience screenings when I'm there for them will absolutely be jam packed with cinema goers from all walks of life. Examples of movies that I would see include with huge crowds would be The Nolan Batman Trilogy, The Simpson Movie, Suicide Squad, The Lego Movie, The Muppets Movie, Ice Age, The Spiderman Trilogy with Tobey Maguire & Harry Potter.
What I have experienced from other people seeing them is that they are just there to enjoy the movie, have chats about it with their friends & nothing else. For the record; I haven't seen any people so far who have abnormal health problems in the cinema. I haven't experienced anything like that so far in my cinema outings. But if they do experience problems while in there; I will feel sympathy for them whenever it arises.
Happy Birthday to your mom, dublinbluray108 Being my wife and I don't really have anyone to watch our son I usually go to the movies on my own. Likewise them. I love him to pieces, but he can kill the movie experience for me in 3-5 seconds. However I am the stay at home parent. So...anyway, for 3 weeks I've been trying to muster the energy to go and see Blade Runner 2049 or even Kingsmans 2 with little success. It is just easier waiting for a movie to come out and watching it on my television. Then I can drink and eat anything I want. Not to mention pause for my constant bathroom breaks
I bought a fair amount of stuff today so I figured for the lolz I would compare how much I payed to how much I would pay if I had bought them digitally at the same quality.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
I bought a fair amount of stuff today so I figured for the lolz I would compare how much I payed to how much I would pay if I had bought them digitally at the same quality.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
Yeah, if you're willing to spend some time looking for deals it will pay off. For my digital movie collection I've spent $2757.92 for 1101 movies or $2.50 each. Those are all HDX except 2. That's from disc/mobile to digital, codes, credit and sales over 4+ years.
I factor all costs so if I purchase a DVD/Blu-ray for the code or d2d I add the purchase price minus what I sell it for. Also fees, shipping and mailers.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
So, in summary, in your world physical movies cost less than $1 a piece, and you sell them used for $17 a piece. Where I live it's unfortunately the other way around.
So, in summary, in your world physical movies cost less than $1 a piece, and you sell them used for $17 a piece. Where I live it's unfortunately the other way around.
Well I'll be happy to buy your physical media from you for a dollar a piece then if that's your worlds going price.
I like how physical media give you more "bang for your buck:" not only superior Audio/Video quality, but you can often buy the Blu-Ray, DVD, and Digital HD all in one box for roughly the price of just Digital HD. I also like how you can lend physical media to other people, or sell them. I recently converted some of my old DVDs to Digital HD using Vudu and then migrated them to iTunes using Movies Anywhere and then sold the old DVDs. Like was said earlier, you can't really resell old Digital HD.
On the other hand, I like the convenience of Digital HD. For example, I like how I can start a movie on one Apple TV downstairs and then finish on the Apple TV in the bedroom, and it picks up where I left off. Can't do that with physical media!
Why should we do either/or when we can do both? Options are good things!
Quote:
Originally Posted by veritas
I bought a fair amount of stuff today so I figured for the lolz I would compare how much I payed to how much I would pay if I had bought them digitally at the same quality.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
I like how physical media give you more "bang for your buck:" not only superior Audio/Video quality, but you can often buy the Blu-Ray, DVD, and Digital HD all in one box for roughly the price of just Digital HD. I also like how you can lend physical media to other people, or sell them. I recently converted some of my old DVDs to Digital HD using Vudu and then migrated them to iTunes using Movies Anywhere and then sold the old DVDs. Like was said earlier, you can't really resell old Digital HD.
On the other hand, I like the convenience of Digital HD. For example, I like how I can start a movie on one Apple TV downstairs and then finish on the Apple TV in the bedroom, and it picks up where I left off. Can't do that with physical media!
Why should we do either/or when we can do both? Options are good things!
You can buy just the digital codes for around $2-4.
Well I'll be happy to buy your physical media from you for a dollar a piece then if that's your worlds going price.
Too late. After wasting some time trying to sell my old DVDs and some redundant BDs individually last year, I gave up (threw away the DVDs and sold the BDs in bulk to a shop for about the price of a dinner). Unless they are pretty new or rare OOP titles, DVDs and BDs don't fetch enough to justify the hassle of putting them on Ebay IMO.
I bought a fair amount of stuff today so I figured for the lolz I would compare how much I payed to how much I would pay if I had bought them digitally at the same quality.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
Yikes; that sounds like a lot of money. What were your 4 items that you couldn't get on digital?
I bought a fair amount of stuff today so I figured for the lolz I would compare how much I payed to how much I would pay if I had bought them digitally at the same quality.
For the physical I payed $21 for 23 items (and 300 drm points) and if I had bought them digitally it would have cost me $254 for 19 items with 4 not available digitally at the time.
If I really waited a bunch of years I probably could have gotten these for for around 150 digitally to be fair but still the difference between buying physical and digital pricing is insane. The price gap is so large its cheaper to buy most films that allow disc to digital on physical and do the conversion then to buy digital media directly.
on a similar note I sold a blu ray and a dvd yesterday for $17 if I wanted to sell the digital copy of those films I could not even get a dollar because you cant sell your digital collection.
Physical media costs less, has a higher second hand value and in most cases comes with a free digital copy also. In terms of pricing physical vs digital physical wins in every category most of the time.
This sounds like a one off garage sale or craiglist/offerup dump. Where did you purchase?
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Being my wife and I don't really have anyone to watch our son I usually go to the movies on my own. Likewise them. I love him to pieces, but he can kill the movie experience for me in 3-5 seconds. However I am the stay at home parent. So...anyway, for 3 weeks I've been trying to muster the energy to go and see Blade Runner 2049 or even Kingsmans 2 with little success. It is just easier waiting for a movie to come out and watching it on my television. Then I can drink and eat anything I want. Not to mention pause for my constant bathroom breaks 
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