Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

For July the average top speed for Netflix was 4.37 Mbps, so yes, most just don't seem to care about quality. Many of those providers listed can provide much higher speeds than those listed in the table so it appears many subs have the SD plan, Playback Settings set to Low and/or the ISP just can not handle the traffic during prime time.

The latter is the most likely.

[Steedeel]

Yet we are supposed to believe many on here that claim we are just fine going into the next decade. Well, no is the answer to that. Disc will continue to be the gold standard for quality consumption of films in a HT. That won’t change, five or ten years from now.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

For July the average top speed for Netflix was 4.37 Mbps, so yes, most just don't seem to care about quality. Many of those providers listed can provide much higher speeds than those listed in the table so it appears many subs have the SD plan, Playback Settings set to Low and/or the ISP just can not handle the traffic during prime time.

I'd be curious to know just what kind of throughput I'm getting when streaming Netflix (or any provider); is there a way to determine the speed, short of maybe a custom router firmware?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yet we are supposed to believe many on here that claim we are just fine going into the next decade. Well, no is the answer to that. Disc will continue to be the gold standard for quality consumption of films in a HT. That won’t change, five or ten years from now.

I certainly agree that discs offer the best video and audio quality possible. They have always set the standard with each successive format. I also highly value the control over the content that disc ownership provides. I like knowing that my watching a movie is in no way dependent upon either my unreliable internet or the content provider's occasionally overwhelmed servers. No buffering for me, thank you very much.

I acknowledge that streamed content can look and sound very good. It offers many conveniences and there are instances where even I will use it, infrequently though that may be.

I am not worried about the next decade as far as home video is concerned because I believe that all of our preferred choices will remain readily available. The home entertainment market really is big enough to accommodate us all.

[dublinbluray108]

I just realized that if I wanted to use Irish Netflix; the top ISP here (Virgin Media Ireland) has a much lower prime time usage speed at 3.89 mbps. That is roughly 0.5mbps slower than the top provider in the U.S. All other countries that I have checked with compared to Ireland & the UK are that not much better either. They are either much slower or not that much better than the U.S. And people are saying that they would like to prefer using streaming services for their entertainment. I wonder if other streaming services actually fair out better with their peak time usage to see who wins out in this race.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

I just realized that if I wanted to use Irish Netflix; the top ISP here (Virgin Media Ireland) has a much lower prime time usage speed at 3.89 mbps. That is roughly 0.5mbps slower than the top provider in the U.S. All other countries that I have checked with compared to Ireland & the UK are that not much better either. They are either much slower or not that much better than the U.S. And people are saying that they would like to prefer using streaming services for their entertainment. I wonder if other streaming services actually fair out better with their peak time usage to see who wins out in this race.

Pretty much evidence of how far behind Digital is. Like I have said many times.

720p is doable on 2Mbps, but that’s still poor.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by zarquon

I'd be curious to know just what kind of throughput I'm getting when streaming Netflix (or any provider);

For Netflix: On my Sony UBP-X800 and BDP-S6700 pressing the Info button will bring up an overlay that shows the resolution and the data rate. VUDU will show SD or HD or HDX and used to use three bars to indicate connection speed. The bars have been removed. Amazon just indicates HD or not. I don’t believe any indicate the audio rate. For Netflix, there is a way to access a diagnostic screen with a sequence of button pushes, don’t know about VUDU or Amazon.

is there a way to determine the speed, short of maybe a custom router firmware?

I know it can be done via custom router firmware for TV’s and STB’s, etc., when viewing video streams in Windows the data rate can be tracked via the Task Manager. In all cases you have to make sure nothing else is accessing the internet except the video stream of interest.

EDIT: For VUDU and Amazon the info is accessed with the Cursor Up button, will double check tonight. Sure wish these folks could get together and decide on a common way to do things.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Touting to you, could be informative to others. The YouTube links were deliberately not embedded, Vilya and other readers may not give a hoot about those videos so why have them start playing! Does not require that many Wheaties to copy and paste.

I was able to copy and paste those links just fine. Post links however you want; it is a rather silly and trivial thing to be criticized over. It reminds me of the grammar cops who delight in finding fault wherever they can.

The second link has purty posies in 4K detail while the first shows an impressive Sony Handycam that I need.

I need it so I can make and upload more cute cat videos to the internet. The internet can't get enough of them. I need to do my part.

Every day. Every. Darn. Day. - YouTube

[Wendell R. Breland]

Here are couple of Extended Info shoots from the Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray player. The first pic is the media info, the second pic is the player output info. Too bad most streaming apps don’t have similar info. But then again, they probably don’t want you to know that kind of info.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Here are couple of Extended Info shoots from the Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray player. The first pic is the media info, the second pic is the player output info. Too bad most streaming apps don’t have similar info. But then again, they probably don’t want you to know that kind of info.

That’s just full fat cream! Yummy!

Alchav, how far away is your 4k streaming nirvana? 20 years?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was able to copy and paste those links just fine. Post links however you want; it is a rather silly and trivial thing to be criticized over. It reminds me of the grammar cops who delight in finding fault wherever they can.

Folks are funny that way, take a little info and try to make a big deal of it. On another site some asked about what remotes and automation folks were using. I posted that I used MX-980's for remotes and X10 for automation in the media room. The quick response to my post was the MX-980 was old style and X10 was cheap, unreliable and antiquated.

I found it amusing because: I have had a Global Caché GC-100-12 and iRule (and several other phone/tablet remote apps) since 2012. Just don’t like them, I prefer my button remote. In addition to X10 I use several Z-Wave, Zigbee, Echo Dot, Google Mini, Nest, Honeywell, etc. automation devices. I like my X10 because it can be controlled with the IR remote. One button push can do many things .

Before folks berate me about my preference for antiquated IR, just know I just received my ISY994i ZW/IR Pro + Insteon serial PLM. Now I can control the newfangled devices with my IR remote.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by zarquon

I'd be curious to know just what kind of throughput I'm getting when streaming Netflix (or any provider); is there a way to determine the speed, short of maybe a custom router firmware?

Most people don't know or care what kind of Speeds their getting, they just rely on Picture and Sound Quality. Those slow Speeds that Netflix puts out at 4.37Mbps is only good enough for SD. When my Speeds were down at 15Mbps, I was getting a lot of Buffering on HD. Not until those Speeds were doubled did the Buffering go away. Now at 75Mbps my UHD 4K Streaming comes in real nice. My Brother-in-Law in Texas didn't know what kind of Speeds he was getting, but his HD Streaming on his 4K TV was real nice. He checked on his computer, and his Speeds were 45Mbps.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Most people don't know or care what kind of Speeds their getting, they just rely on Picture and Sound Quality. Those slow Speeds that Netflix puts out at 4.37Mbps is only good enough for SD. When my Speeds were down at 15Mbps, I was getting a lot of Buffering on HD. Not until those Speeds were doubled did the Buffering go away. Now at 75Mbps my UHD 4K Streaming comes in real nice. My Brother-in-Law in Texas didn't know what kind of Speeds he was getting, but his HD Streaming on his 4K TV was real nice. He checked on his computer, and his Speeds were 45Mbps.

All the evidence is there that Netflix could scrap 4k in future. Heck, going by those stats, HD is a push!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Disc Sales Thread shows they are slowly fading out!

We're all slowly fading out. Whattayagonnado?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s not progressive quality wise, it’s that buzzword of the 21st century, ‘convenience’ (laziness).

Why do you act like consumer affinity for convenience is some 21st century development?

Fast food, drive-throughs, instant coffee, minute rice, 30 minute oil changes...the list is almost literally endless.

And lest you think the appeal of convenience has never sullied home entertainment in the past, that's just ain't true either.

8-tracks, cassettes, transistor radios, portable TVs, Walkmans (Walkmen?)...these were all inferior to less portable, less convenient alternatives but consumers loved them.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yet we are supposed to believe many on here that claim we are just fine going into the next decade. Well, no is the answer to that. Disc will continue to be the gold standard for quality consumption of films in a HT. That won’t change, five or ten years from now.

Actually it sounds a lot like yes is the answer to whether we're going to be just fine going into the next decade.

If you're right - and stop the presses, I think you are - and discs are still the gold standard five or ten years from now I will be just fine.

Won't you?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Most people don't know or care what kind of Speeds their getting, they just rely on Picture and Sound Quality. Those slow Speeds that Netflix puts out at 4.37Mbps is only good enough for SD. When my Speeds were down at 15Mbps, I was getting a lot of Buffering on HD. Not until those Speeds were doubled did the Buffering go away. Now at 75Mbps my UHD 4K Streaming comes in real nice. My Brother-in-Law in Texas didn't know what kind of Speeds he was getting, but his HD Streaming on his 4K TV was real nice. He checked on his computer, and his Speeds were 45Mbps.

Netflix streams 4K content at 16 Mbps. They recommend internet service that delivers a minimum of 25 Mbps.

https://www.howtogeek.com/338983/how...s-netflix-use/

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/42384

You have no idea what other people know or what they care about. Stop pretending that you do. People select the internet service package that meets their needs from the available options. They choose a plan that offers a specific speed and, in many cases, a specific data cap also. The speed of the service they select is usually stated on their recurring monthly bill as well. The choice of plan affects the price they pay for their service and you can be certain that they care about that in addition to caring about the performance they receive. They know the speed of their service because: A: they picked their plan and B: it is stated on their monthly bill.

Lots of people know how to run a speed test, too. It is a common feature found on their ISP's website among other places. Many ISPs deliver speeds in excess of what a given plan claims. I subscribe to a 50 Mpbs plan (with a paltry data cap of 250 Gb per month), but I typically get 80 Mbps- assuming my ISP is working. And that's an assumption I can never take for granted.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by octagon

Why do you act like consumer affinity for convenience is some 21st century development?

Fast food, drive-throughs, instant coffee, minute rice, 30 minute oil changes...the list is almost literally endless.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

We're all slowly fading out. Whattayagonnado?



Why do you act like consumer affinity for convenience is some 21st century development?

Fast food, drive-throughs, instant coffee, minute rice, 30 minute oil changes...the list is almost literally endless.

And lest you think the appeal of convenience has never sullied home entertainment in the past, that's just ain't true either.

8-tracks, cassettes, transistor radios, portable TVs, Walkmans (Walkmen?)...these were all inferior to less portable, less convenient alternatives but consumers loved them.



Actually it sounds a lot like yes is the answer to whether we're going to be just fine going into the next decade.

If you're right - and stop the presses, I think you are - and discs are still the gold standard five or ten years from now I will be just fine.

Won't you?

You have to put it in context. We are discussing HT and our hobbies as film enthusiasts. Digital v disc and the pros and cons of each in relation to HT, now and in the future. We arent the masses in that regard.

[stonesfan129]

Not that I can tell much of a difference, but streaming doesn't have lossless audio like the Blu-ray or 4K UHD discs do. Most times you only get Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby Digital 2.0. And then the bitrate is much lower than the disc too. I mean yeah it's convenient but it's incorrect to say streaming is as good as the disc. Maybe you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there and blatantly obvious to someone with a better display.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

All the evidence is there that Netflix could scrap 4k in future. Heck, going by those stats, HD is a push!

Originally Posted by Steedeel

In fact, I think 1080p HDR is probably even overkill for the average joe, even five years from now.

Stop this nonsense. 5 years from now 8k streaming will be a thing.

Not all of us live in Europe or in rural middle America.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Stop this nonsense. 5 years from now 8k streaming will be a thing.

Not all of us live in Europe or in rural middle America.

Streaming services are far far more interested in HDR than 4K, it’s cheaper, it’s bit rate friendly (20% increase in bandwidth compared to standard 1080p) and it’s far easier to implement. Don’t be surprised if this time next year we have a few new sets with just full HD HDR, maybe at the smaller end first (42-49 inch)

Might as well leave 4K HDR+10 to the big boys? (Disc)