Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Streaming Bitrates have not changed because most people barely get 25Mbps, just a few like us get more and mine is Symmetrical. So the Providers are working with those 25Mbps in improving the Codec and using Adaptive Streaming. That's why I think Symmetrical Speeds are so important for that two way communication for Picture and Sound Quality.

That is Server Based DVR Service, that means the capability is there for Storage and playback of your Movie and TV Show Collection.

The most recent FCC report shows that 92% of Americans have access to broadband. 92% is most definitely "most" Americans. The average broadband speed in the U.S. is 95.25 Mbps. The overall average speed in the U.S. is just shy of 26 Mbps, but the reason for that low average is due to more than access issues; economic issues are a factor, too. Not everyone can afford high speed broadband internet. In fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a full 35% of Americans lack broadband service despite it being available to 92% of Americans. 65% of Americans have broadband service and that, too, is "most" by any definition.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/fc...adband-access/

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-shee...net-broadband/

https://www.speedtest.net/reports/un...es/2018/fixed/

https://bgr.com/2018/07/10/average-i...-vs-the-world/

Bitrates have not improved because low standard viewers, like you, are already content with what they receive now. It doesn't take all that much to please viewers like you who listen thru wireless headphones or with the TV's built-in speakers. Convenience and cheap is what rings your bell. The streaming services don't need to improve anything because viewers like you are already happier than pigs in sheet.

Adaptive streaming adjust bitrates downwards to accommodate those with even worse internet than what you receive. Streaming providers, like Netflix, Vudu, and Amazon, do not exceed 16 Mbps, period. This has been proven numerous times with numerous citations by numerous members. There is almost no two-way communication involved with streaming; this has been proven repeatedly also. It is no surprise that you have learned nothing from any of it. Just comfort yourself by clicking your heels together and repeating "it's all digital" until you feel better.

DVR storage, on a remote server, of programs that you record from your cable TV service, analogous to cloud storage in that the data is not locally stored, is OLD news. You in no sense own such content, either. The fact that your provider offers it is nothing special. This feature is as common as dirt. You talk about DVR service like it was some kind of break through tech; it isn't.

Your digital library has always been stored on a remote server; nothing new about that, either.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I have Panasonic's UB900 4K player (9-hundred, not the 9-thousand which is newer and more high end). I got it about a year ago when my regular Blu-Ray player in my living room stopped working.

It was normally $600, but I got it on sale for $450. So it's still a pretty pricey player.

I don't even have a 4K TV yet. My main TV in my living room is is one of the last plasmas made and was rather price (got it in 2014), so it's going to be a while before I upgrade.

But as I said back when I first got the player, it is rather nice. Even just playing standard Blu-Rays on it on my existing TV, there is a noticeable uptick in quality. Even my wife noticed it, and she usually doesn't notice these things to the same extent that I do. And it upscales DVDs pretty damn nicely, too. She works in a public library and they get DVDs that people can check out (they generally don't get Blu-Rays), so sometimes she'll bring home movies that we haven't seen and want to check out before deciding to buy them. The first time that I put a DVD in it, I was rather impressed. No, it's not true HD quality, but it was better quality, which the artifacts that I would notice when playing DVDs on any previous player that we hooked up to that TV being substantially reduced and it giving a better overall picture.

With how good this player is hooked to a 1080p TV, I can only imagine how good not only it is hooked to a good quality 4K TV, but how much better the 9000 likely is by comparison.

The irony of the most long winded poster not even being in the game yet.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, it pretty much kills TRUE HT.

I assume this is sarcasm but you were all giddy and hoping VUDU was next to close after the UV announcement, even though you don't even have it across the pond.

You don't see us coming in and hoping Panasonic and sony stop making 4k players.

Where's your normal doom and gloom?

Bill hunt on the bits seems pretty glum about the future of physical media after the last electronics show + the samsung announcement

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I assume this is sarcasm but you were all giddy and hoping VUDU was next to close after the UV announcement, even though you don't even have it across the pond.

You don't see us coming in and hoping Panasonic and sony stop making 4k players.

Where's your normal doom and gloom?

Bill hunt on the bits seems pretty glum about the future of physical media after the last electronics show + the samsung announcement

I hate the idea that movie lovers could drink the koolaid and leap into a format that’s not going to last the pace anyway. It’s stupidity imo.

My frustration grows from that. If you love collecting, bloody collect disc! Not a format that’s about to be made irrelevant by subscriptions and exclusives.

You are a prime example. Using the term ‘us’ despite the fact you have over 400 blurays. You are one of the main reasons HT lovers may not have access to the best quality in years to come. In that case, does it even class as HT anymore? Surely the point of HT is to replicate the cinema experience as closely as possible at home?

I expect it of the masses, some of them are still struggling with changing a light bulb. However, to class yourselves as film fans and then desert the best quality is nothing short of shameful imo.

[casperuk]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The most recent FCC report shows that 92% of Americans have access to broadband. 92% is most definitely "most" Americans. The average broadband speed in the U.S. is 95.25 Mbps. The overall average speed in the U.S. is just shy of 26 Mbps, but the reason for that low average is due to more than access issues; economic issues are a factor, too. Not everyone can afford high speed broadband internet. In fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a full 35% of Americans lack broadband service despite it being available to 92% of Americans. 65% of Americans have broadband service and that, too, is "most" by any definition.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/fc...adband-access/

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-shee...net-broadband/

https://www.speedtest.net/reports/un...es/2018/fixed/

https://bgr.com/2018/07/10/average-i...-vs-the-world/

Bitrates have not improved because low standard viewers, like you, are already content with what they receive now. It doesn't take all that much to please viewers like you who listen thru wireless headphones or with the TV's built-in speakers. Convenience and cheap is what rings your bell. The streaming services don't need to improve anything because viewers like you are already happier than pigs in sheet.

Adaptive streaming adjust bitrates downwards to accommodate those with even worse internet than what you receive. Streaming providers, like Netflix, Vudu, and Amazon, do not exceed 16 Mbps, period. This has been proven numerous times with numerous citations by numerous members. There is almost no two-way communication involved with streaming; this has been proven repeatedly also. It is no surprise that you have learned nothing from any of it. Just comfort yourself by clicking your heels together and repeating "it's all digital" until you feel better.

DVR storage, on a remote server, of programs that you record from your cable TV service, analogous to cloud storage in that the data is not locally stored, is OLD news. You in no sense own such content, either. The fact that your provider offers it is nothing special. This feature is as common as dirt. You talk about DVR service like it was some kind of break through tech; it isn't.

Your digital library has always been stored on a remote server; nothing new about that, either.

I'm gonna add to this.

If you have a home network and the ability to rip your own DVDs or blu ray. Then your able to have you own NAS drive to be able to stream your content around your own home anyway.

As said. DVR services have been around for a good 10 years + in many different ways.

I'm all about marking things easy for myself. But I still have a home theater setup and I still buy blu rays, UHD BD, digital movies. And I have streamed services. And I only buy digital movies that I don't want to watch a lot or want. But don't really mind if they are only streamed.

I've got free codes with blu rays or DVDs or uhds. Which I've redeemed. My kids can then watch them without breaking my disk

But i always prefer BD or UHD over digital. Hell even most of the stuff I've ripped looks better, but ripping and converting is a pain in the arse.

Until all streaming services offer the same quality.

And

Until all streaming services offer the same content to all locations, rather than just the US. I'm looking at you MA. Then streaming is going to be hit and miss for everyone.

To me it also doesn't make sense on a company level to offer a movie digitally in SD,HD,HDX,UHD, another format that's higher in the future. As you have to then store 4+ copies of that movie on your server. This is why I think apple are upgrading to 4K, means they can cut storage costs from 4 files to 1 file, even though that file might be bigger means less to manage.

See with UV dying. It doesn't really affect you guys in the US. But it does affect everyone outside of it. As there are no replacements. Flixster is on its last legs, and that has been forever. Sony no longer offer digital codes with their new BDs. Venom didn't ship with a digital code in the UK. So if you wanted it digitally you had to go online and do it.

Digital also costs far too much. Why is it the same cost as a blu ray. And that cost 6 months later when the blu rays are down to half the price

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by casperuk

I'm gonna add to this.

If you have a home network and the ability to rip your own DVDs or blu ray. Then your able to have you own NAS drive to be able to stream your content around your own home anyway.

As said. DVR services have been around for a good 10 years + in many different ways.

I'm all about marking things easy for myself. But I still have a home theater setup and I still buy blu rays, UHD BD, digital movies. And I have streamed services. And I only buy digital movies that I don't want to watch a lot or want. But don't really mind if they are only streamed.

I've got free codes with blu rays or DVDs or uhds. Which I've redeemed. My kids can then watch them without breaking my disk

But i always prefer BD or UHD over digital. Hell even most of the stuff I've ripped looks better, but ripping and converting is a pain in the arse.

Until all streaming services offer the same quality.

And

Until all streaming services offer the same content to all locations, rather than just the US. I'm looking at you MA. Then streaming is going to be hit and miss for everyone.

To me it also doesn't make sense on a company level to offer a movie digitally in SD,HD,HDX,UHD, another format that's higher in the future. As you have to then store 4+ copies of that movie on your server. This is why I think apple are upgrading to 4K, means they can cut storage costs from 4 files to 1 file, even though that file might be bigger means less to manage.

See with UV dying. It doesn't really affect you guys in the US. But it does affect everyone outside of it. As there are no replacements. Flixster is on its last legs, and that has been forever. Sony no longer offer digital codes with their new BDs. Venom didn't ship with a digital code in the UK. So if you wanted it digitally you had to go online and do it.

Digital also costs far too much. Why is it the same cost as a blu ray. And that cost 6 months later when the blu rays are down to half the price

It wont matter. The world is switching to subscription. The masses don’t want to pay for individual films or shows.

UV dying doesn’t affect the U.K. either. It was a glorified version of those old mobile digital codes that we used to get in the early years of Blu-ray. Quite frankly, why would a HT enthusiast want to watch Gravity or MI Fallout on a 5 inch screen?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Adaptive streaming adjust bitrates downwards to accommodate those with even worse internet than what you receive.

It appears this poster has a learning disorder, this one has showed zero progress in learning anything A/V or anything related to A/V. In all my many years of posting I have come across some slow learners but never a zero learner. At best, his post just induces more . If he is OK with that then so am I.

[casperuk]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It wont matter. The world is switching to subscription. The masses don’t want to pay for individual films or shows.

UV dying doesn’t affect the U.K. either. It was a glorified version of those old mobile digital codes that we used to get in the early years of Blu-ray. Quite frankly, why would a HT enthusiast want to watch Gravity or MI Fallout on a 5 inch screen?

UV used to link to other services that would work on a TV. Then they slowly stopped that. So now it's only flixster that is left. So it does affect people.

TBF. I buy mostly physical movies. And I'd rather have a movie I know I own.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by casperuk

UV used to link to other services that would work on a TV. Then they slowly stopped that. So now it's only flixster that is left. So it does affect people.

TBF. I buy mostly physical movies. And I'd rather have a movie I know I own.

Well, it still doesn’t because it’s only the end result that matters, not the fact it used to support TVs. Fact is, it’s been slowly dying since it’s conception. It’s utterly useless. The only way it would have EVER worked is by pairing up with Amazon, Sky and ITunes. (Sky because they are the most successful digital retailer in the U.K. I understand.)

Even MA in the US is doomed to failure because by the time every studio is on board, everyone will have Switched to subscription anyway.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by flyry

The irony of the most long winded poster not even being in the game yet.

How is that ironic? This isn't a 4K specific thread. This is the physical vs digital thread, and I collect physical media.

You clearly didn't think that statement through before talking out of your ass.


Besides, while my TV isn't 4K, I spent about $4,000 (including an extended warranty) on a relatively high end set at the time that I bought it a few years ago. I'm not rich, so I can't afford to plop down that kind of money every year or two to upgrade the absolute latest thing. I got more or less (without going into substantially higher dollar amounts) roughly the best thing that I could get at the time that I upgraded. I actually ended up spending more than I originally planned when going into it. I'm sure even those here in this thread who do have a 4K set up don't necessarily have the highest end model and/or if they bought their TV or projector a year or two ago, they aren't rushing out to replace it even if something better has come out since. Outside of the super rich, specifically those who prioritize having the latest and great thing in HT no matter the cost or frequency in having to upgrade, most people are compromising to some extent or another when it comes to their set ups.

Eventually I will upgrade to a 4K set, but it is going to be a few years. I'll probably be getting a more budget friendly 4K set (probably a TCL model) for a spare room in the not too distant future, but when I do eventually upgrade my main TV, it's going to be with something higher end than that, and I'd rather wait, save, and get something really nice rather than (if I were to upgrade today) get something cheaper that wouldn't be as nice and in at least some regards would probably be a trade off with my current set (having the advantage of things like HDR and 4K resolution, but being lower end, not having as nice of black levels, etc.).

In the mean time, I've been buying 4K combo packs (since they include the regular Blu-Ray anyway) since the format launched, and when my main Blu-Ray player died and had to be replaced anyway, I upgraded to a 4K player, which as I said in my previous post, I'm still getting some decent performance benefit from even with my current set up. So I've been taking gradual steps in that direction where it logically and financially makes sense for me to do so.



If anything is ironic, it is Steedeel liking your post. While he probably has a far superior HT set up than my own, from what I understand, he owns far fewer 4K discs than I do. And while I can't fully get the benefit of those particular discs now, at least I've been buying them since pretty much literally day one, and I'll already have a large collection on hand for when I do eventually upgrade my TV. I have to imagine that he's likely bought a lot of movies on regular Blu-Ray that had 4K combo packs available at the same time, only having jumped on board buying the 4K discs more recently. He's the one who goes on about quality the most, and I have more 4K discs than he does.

While I do care about quality, I care more about the ownership of physical media, which is why I will still opt for it even in a case when/if a digitally distributed alternative does have better quality. I've stated this many times over the course of my "long winded" posts.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

How is that ironic? This isn't a 4K specific thread. This is the physical vs digital thread, and I collect physical media.

You clearly didn't think that statement through before talking out of your ass.


Besides, while my TV isn't 4K, I spent about $4,000 (including an extended warranty) on a relatively high end set at the time that I bought it a few years ago. I'm not rich, so I can't afford to plop down that kind of money every year or two to upgrade the absolute latest thing. I got more or less (without going into substantially higher dollar amounts) roughly the best thing that I could get at the time that I upgraded. I actually ended up spending more than I originally planned when going into it. I'm sure even those here in this thread who do have a 4K set up don't necessarily have the highest end model and/or if they bought their TV or projector a year or two ago, they aren't rushing out to replace it even if something better has come out since. Outside of the super rich, specifically those who prioritize having the latest and great thing in HT no matter the cost or frequency in having to upgrade, most people are compromising to some extent or another when it comes to their set ups.

Eventually I will upgrade to a 4K set, but it is going to be a few years. I'll probably be getting a more budget friendly 4K set (probably a TCL model) for a spare room in the not too distant future, but when I do eventually upgrade my main TV, it's going to be with something higher end than that, and I'd rather wait, save, and get something really nice rather than (if I were to upgrade today) get something cheaper that wouldn't be as nice and in at least some regards would probably be a trade off with my current set (having the advantage of things like HDR and 4K resolution, but being lower end, not having as nice of black levels, etc.).

In the mean time, I've been buying 4K combo packs (since they include the regular Blu-Ray anyway) since the format launched, and when my main Blu-Ray player died and had to be replaced anyway, I upgraded to a 4K player, which as I said in my previous post, I'm still getting some decent performance benefit from even with my current set up. So I've been taking gradual steps in that direction where it logically and financially makes sense for me to do so.



If anything is ironic, it is Steedeel liking your post. While he probably has a far superior HT set up than my own, from what I understand, he owns far fewer 4K discs than I do. And while I can't fully get the benefit of those particular discs now, at least I've been buying them since pretty much literally day one, and I'll already have a large collection on hand for when I do eventually upgrade my TV. I have to imagine that he's likely bought a lot of movies on regular Blu-Ray that had 4K combo packs available at the same time, only having jumped on board buying the 4K discs more recently. He's the one who goes on about quality the most, and I have more 4K discs than he does.

While I do care about quality, I care more about the ownership of physical media, which is why I will still opt for it even in a case when/if a digitally distributed alternative does have better quality. I've stated this many times over the course of my "long winded" posts.

I have way more now, 4k and Blu-ray included.

[Vilya]

It shouldn't be a contest.

Most of us, not all, on these forums are enthusiasts with far more than a passing interest in this hobby. We buy the best gear we can afford when it makes the most sense for us to buy it. I wasn't the first here to buy a 4K TV and a 4K disc player and I certainly do not own the absolute best, but I bought the best that I could afford when I made my purchases. My next hardware purchase will almost certainly involve compromises, too. Retirement is grand, and I can not recommend it enough, but it reduces your income substantially.

I am thankful for every single person on these forums that buys physical media, no matter how many discs they own and regardless of whether or not they buy discs exclusively. Every disc purchase helps to keep physical media viable.

I am also disappointed that I was left out of contention for being named "most long winded poster." I know that I do my part.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It shouldn't be a contest.

Most of us, not all, on these forums are enthusiasts with far more than a passing interest in this hobby. We buy the best gear we can afford when it makes the most sense for us to buy it. I wasn't the first here to buy a 4K TV and a 4K disc player and I certainly do not own the absolute best, but I bought the best that I could afford when I made my purchases. My next hardware purchase will almost certainly involve compromises, too. Retirement is grand, and I can not recommend it enough, but it reduces your income substantially.

I am thankful for every single person on these forums that buys physical media, no matter how many discs they own and regardless of whether or not they buy discs exclusively. Every disc purchase helps to keep physical media viable.

I am also disappointed that I was left out of contention for being named "most long winded poster." I know that I do my part.

I need to update my list. I will in the next few weeks

Did you start watching TP?

[Hardback247]

Should I be worried if certain movie distributors decide not to release 4K Blu-Rays anymore?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Should I be worried if certain movie distributors decide not to release 4K Blu-Rays anymore?

Depends. If it’s a ‘wait and see’ policy, possibly no. If it’s a ‘we have ceased producing 4K titles for good’ then yes!

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Depends. If it’s a ‘wait and see’ policy, possibly no. If it’s a ‘we have ceased producing 4K titles for good’ then yes!

How possible is it for the latter to happen?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

How possible is it for the latter to happen?

More likely when the likes of Disney, Amazon and Apple want to smother us in digital services through our tv.

I wonder, is it a coincidence that Samsung are the ONLY company to have ITunes built into their tv and they have just stopped making 4K disc players? I have a feeling it isn’t. Apple wants ITunes (and more importantly for them) it’s subscription service up and running before the rumoured Spring launch.
Disney wants a bunch of exclusive films and tv shows for its streaming service etc..

Having said all that, I still think 4K will survive. It will be niche, but it will be fine.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I wonder, is it a coincidence that Samsung are the ONLY company to have ITunes built into their tv and they have just stopped making 4K disc players? I have a feeling it isn’t.

There's an iTunes app? Where is it? I have a Samsung TV. I searched it, and I couldn't find it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

There's an iTunes app? Where is it? I have a Samsung TV. I searched it, and I couldn't find it.

If you bought it in the last two years, you will get a firmware update in the Spring I think. Sorry, it isn’t on there yet.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If you bought it in the last two years, you will get a firmware update in the Spring I think. Sorry, it isn’t on there yet.

I got mine in late 2017.