Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Two questions for readers:

Do you own a standalone media player (Dune, Zidoo, HiMedia, Egreat, AC Ryan, etc.)?

Do you plan to procure a ATSC 3.0 tuner?

For the first time ever I am going to pass on a new technology and have no plans to get into ATSC 3.0 When ATSC 1.0 was released it was very exciting, my first ATSC tuner was a MIT MDP-100 (about $330 in early 2000's). Then I procured 2 MDP-120's (tuner and daughter card) because they had DVI outputs. My last was 3 MDP-130's because they could tune ATSC and QAM. With no interest in commercial broadcasting these tuners have sit unused for the last 2 or 3 years.

I still watch a lot of PBS that I get direct from them via satellite, a 1 meter dish and a commercial grade tuner card (TBS). Also have 3 satellite STB's.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Why do people think that a fast fiber connection and using all wired connection in a home avoids internet latency and host server load issues?

JohnAV I use to work and Retired from PacBell in the Bay Area, and set up a lot of the Networks there. I know your Home Network has nothing to do with the Circuits coming into it, but a good Solid Network in the home maximizes the Bandwidth coming in. Yes you still need an ISP that will give you the best connection to the CDN. So if your ISP is having trouble with a Streaming Provider like Amazon Prime, then talk to them to see about the bottleneck connection. A good ISP should know how to manage their Traffic.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

JohnAV I use to work and Retired from PacBell in the Bay Area, and set up a lot of the Networks there. I know your Home Network has nothing to do with the Circuits coming into it, but a good Solid Network in the home maximizes the Bandwidth coming in. Yes you still need an ISP that will give you the best connection to the CDN. So if your ISP is having trouble with a Streaming Provider like Amazon Prime, then talk to them to see about the bottle neck connection. A good ISP should know how to manage their Traffic.

Like that does any good! My ISP says its Amazon's fault and Amazon says it is my ISP's problem. They both just blame each other and nothing changes. I have wasted my time calling both of them and this is ALL that they do: point their fingers at each other.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Like that does any good! My ISP says its Amazon's fault and Amazon says it is my ISP's problem. They both just blame each other and nothing changes. I have wasted my time calling both of them and this is ALL that they do: point their fingers at each other.

I know Vilya, I feel your pain, the standing joke when trouble shooting was "Trouble leaving good here." If Techs don't have the big picture, nothing will get fixed!

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Two questions for readers:

Do you own a standalone media player (Dune, Zidoo, HiMedia, Egreat, AC Ryan, etc.)?No.

Do you plan to procure a ATSC 3.0 tuner.

I’ll wait until it’s built in to TVs, this is partly due to local TV regions not currently broadcasting using ATSC 3.0 yet.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If 3D is "dead" how is that I am still buying new release movies on the format?

Frozen II and Star Wars The Rise Of Skywalker get 3D releases on April 20th.

Hyperbole never advances anyone's argument.

"Dead" from a business standpoint doesn't necessarily mean "absolutely doesn't exist at all anymore". I can still find a store that sells typewriters. Are typewriters dead? I would say yes.

If you look at the share of 3D titles, it's negligible. In the U.S., the week of April 18th, the 3D title with the highest share was Aquaman with a share of 0.57%. Only four 3D titles were listed that week because sales below that were so small, but the average of those four titles was a share of just 0.22%.

The week of 4/4/20, the #1 3D title was Suicide Squad with a 0.19% share and an average share for the top 5 titles of just 0.12%.

And as others have pointed out, new TV's don't support 3D.

So is 3D still available? Sure. But it's just a niche of a niche. There's nothing wrong with niches. Some of the highest quality products are niches.

IMO, a number of strategic mistakes were made with the development and marketing of 3D. The TV's should have waited for passive 3D. The first time I saw passive 3D on a standard monitor using theatrical RealD glasses, I was amazed how great it looked. Glasses should have been compatible with any TV. And it was a mistake to issue films that were (badly) post converted to 3D and then charge extra for them at theaters. I understand why theaters charged more because they had to invest in the glasses and the cleaning of the glasses, but it caused a lot of negativity and bad 3D turned off a lot of people as well as the fact that theatrical 3D was generally very dim.

So while 3D might not be absolutely dead, it's certainly in its death throes. But for those who want their 3D, considering how low the unit sales are, it's quite nice of the studios to still issue 3D titles.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I’ll wait until it’s built in to TVs, this is partly due to local TV regions not currently broadcasting using ATSC 3.0 yet.

It was a huge mistake IMO to make ATSC 3.0 voluntary. In spite of some of the capabilities that have the potential to increase ad revenue, there's not really a lot of benefits from a business standpoint for the broadcasters - which are already consistently losing audience to streaming anyway.

And then there's the chicken and egg issue.

So I don't happen to think that there's going to be a lot of adoption of ATSC 3.0.

The only reason we have digital TV is because the FCC forced the broadcasters into it. They didn't want to because they didn't perceive a new revenue stream from it. Can you imagine if we still only had an analog broadcasting system in the U.S.?

The same thing was true for FM radio. In 1966, the FCC ruled that FM stations in cities of more than 100,000 people could no longer simulcast the AM more than 50% of the time. Broadcasters were enraged. But now and even though revenue is in decline, it's only FM's that make any real money. AM is only listened to by very old men.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It was a huge mistake IMO to make ATSC 3.0 voluntary. In spite of some of the capabilities that have the potential to increase ad revenue, there's not really a lot of benefits from a business standpoint for the broadcasters - which are already consistently losing audience to streaming anyway.

And then there's the chicken and egg issue.

So I don't happen to think that there's going to be a lot of adoption of ATSC 3.0.

The only reason we have digital TV is because the FCC forced the broadcasters into it. They didn't want to because they didn't perceive a new revenue stream from it. Can you imagine if we still only had an analog broadcasting system in the U.S.?

The same thing was true for FM radio. In 1966, the FCC ruled that FM stations in cities of more than 100,000 people could no longer simulcast the AM more than 50% of the time. Broadcasters were enraged. But now and even though revenue is in decline, it's only FM's that make any real money. AM is only listened to by very old men.

Please see this map of current ATSC 3.0 status.

As for built-in tuners inside TVs, some models released this summer and onward will incorporate ATSC 3.0 tuners.
Given South Korea's recent history it will come faster then you think, the map shows their coverage.

[Boccaccio]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

IMO, a number of strategic mistakes were made with the development and marketing of 3D. The TV's should have waited for passive 3D. The first time I saw passive 3D on a standard monitor using theatrical RealD glasses, I was amazed how great it looked. Glasses should have been compatible with any TV. And it was a mistake to issue films that were (badly) post converted to 3D and then charge extra for them at theaters. I understand why theaters charged more because they had to invest in the glasses and the cleaning of the glasses, but it caused a lot of negativity and bad 3D turned off a lot of people as well as the fact that theatrical 3D was generally very dim.

So while 3D might not be absolutely dead, it's certainly in its death throes. But for those who want their 3D, considering how low the unit sales are, it's quite nice of the studios to still issue 3D titles.

I think there is one more simple fact why 3D never really took off. It's that people just don't want to wear those glasses.
We went to see Avatar in 2009 in 3D with a group of around 10 and after the movie was done everyone thought the 3D was very well done but no one preferred it over 2D.
They don't want to wear the glasses the whole time and it makes the picture look darker. When people at work went to the cinema back then I asked if saw it in 3D and I almost always got the same response. "No man, I don't want to wear those glasses".

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Two questions for readers:

Do you own a standalone media player (Dune, Zidoo, HiMedia, Egreat, AC Ryan, etc.)?

Do you plan to procure a ATSC 3.0 tuner?

.

Um ... I own an ATV4K and a Panasonic UB420. I think that's a yes to the top question.

My house gets no over the air at all. Actually when I moved in there was a large powered rotating roof mounted antenna and we could almost get a PBS channel. So assuming tuner means something TV related that would be no from me.

I do have someone's DirectTV password by permission but I haven't used it since last year ... I'm really not into TV... Series that play like movies can be ok.


-Brian

[Wendell R. Breland]

The streaming CF continues, owners of the Nvidia Shield have lost their ability to stream UHD content from Amazon. Nvidia says Amazon is working on a fix.

Really does not effect me as I have a Roku Ultra and do not watch much from Amazon.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

Amazon have bought the rights to some soccer games here in the U.K. I think they are several months away from offering a AVOD subscription service separate from Prime. That’s my opinion.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

VUDU does this with their Free content, so it's not really an issue since the titles are free to view. I watched an anime title yesterday via VUDU and it was free with ads. It was the anime of Harlock Space Pirate. I saved myself a bit over $20 over buying the BD from Twilight Time. Good thing, since the film was just ok, it would not have been worth a blind buy.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

You guys are getting desperate! No they won't do that, there would be no incentive to Rent or Buy. Sometimes Vudu gives Credit to watch a Movie with Ads, I watched one last night with Ads. It was pretty good!

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

Movies anywhere doesn’t offer free content so AVOD is not happening, they are a gateway to other digital providers and as such besides redeeming content, they offer links when searching for a movie title to purchase on their VOD partners.

But if I suddenly saws ads interrupting owned content, I would no longer use that VoD, advertising should be limited to free content they offer only as a form of revenue for showing licensed content from studios.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Um ... I own an ATV4K and a Panasonic UB420. I think that's a yes to the top question

Actually a media player refers to a device specially made for playing multimedia computer files like audio and video files, not physical media like a player. Some licensed BD players such as a Oppo players provide a lot of that functionality. ATV4K is a digital streaming receiver, with some media servers, you can have apps that allow access and control of that server, but the ATV4K by itself can’t play computer files.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are getting desperate! No they won't do that, there would be no incentive to Rent or Buy. Sometimes Vudu gives Credit to watch a Movie with Ads, I watched one last night with Ads. It was pretty good!

I am curious if you see the contradictions in your post? You say that they won’t do that, and there would be no incentive to rent or buy....followed up immediately with Vudu inserting ads in a movie, which you were incentivized to actually watch for a credit.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Actually a media player refers to a device specially made for playing multimedia computer files like audio and video files, not physical media like a player. Some licensed BD players such as a Oppo players provide a lot of that functionality. ATV4K is a digital streaming receiver, with some media servers, you can have apps that allow access and control of that server, but the ATV4K by itself can’t play computer files.

Ok.

I have Plex and Infuse on my ATV4K and have a Plex server running.

-Brian

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Another question for readers. What will you do if FandangoNow, Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Google, etc. starts inserting ads into your streaming movie collection?

In the beginning Vudu and Amazon Prime did not have AVOD but they have really upped the number of AVOD titles available.

I am sure that will happen.

I didn't used to have ads before Amazon Prime content. There didn't used to be as many ads on YouTube.

I think it will start with ads before the feature instead of ad breaks.

-Brian