Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[ibanezjp]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I would bet money that in a blind test nobody would be able to tell a difference between Oppo 203 vs UB820/9000 vs x800m2 when watching UHD content (maybe Geoff would ). There's subtle differences with upscaled content but you would need to be pixel peeping and paused.

And I'm a Panasonic fanboy these days too, but I'm not going to pretend it does magic and that it's vastly superior to others.

That’s what I would think as well.

Originally Posted by gunnerg

The panasonic ub9000 does do magic! Maybe oppo, sony and LG players do this same exact magic? But it is truly magic. I never thought I'd see such an upgrade.
And that member above did describe his sony 800M2 playing hdr was "darker and more concentrated" on his oled tv. That isn't the experience of hdr & dv on a panasonic ub9000 player on an oled tv with player set to oled. Those words no longer exist to me in a description of hdr & dv experience.

The DV stuff is not too dark. Also DV has its own picture setting so I can completely tweak that separate from HDR settings. The more and more I research and look at comparison videos online, HDR generally is darker on a lot of scenes where it would normally be washed out with too much grey on SDR.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sony, Panny, OPPO, they're all damned fine players. The Sony and OPPO use verr similar chippery so their image quality is on par with each other (just remember to set the Sony to direct in the video settings otherwise it forces DNR on sub 4K content) while the Panny has dat sharper chroma upsampling which is mostly visible on test pattern w@nkery but it makes the UHDs with dodgy chroma compression more digestible. I'm not a fan of the NTSC DVD playback on the Panny though, not the Euro models anyway, the deinterlacing isn't great, but it's not multiregion anyway so I play DVDs on the OPPO.

Regarding the Optimiser, it's not just about managing brightness, don't listen to other people who've been spouting that bollocks. It's about keeping everything in range that the TV can handle and then tone mapping everything that it can't. Not every single disc will benefit from it, many are mastered at or below 1000 nits which most tellies can handle, and many new releases come with Dolby Vision which takes care of the mapping, but Sony don't use DV a hell of a lot and they specialise in Light Cannon™ HDR grades which can be a bastard to map properly. For those the Optimiser is well worth it.

Cool! Thanks for that insight!

Originally Posted by Samcor_NZ

I have a Sony A8G OLED and both the Sony X800M2 player and the Panasonic UB820. One of the benefits I found with the UB820 optimizer (in addition to the highlight detail retention) is that when using just the OLED's native tone mapping, there would be occasions where I would actually see the image brightening or darkening for a second or two immediately following a scene or shot change. This was super distracting to me as it was really obvious the tv was messing with the image and I realised the TV was simply taking a second or two to apply it's mapping to high nit content. The first 4K movie I watched where I caught this happening was 'Crazy Rich Asians'. It happened a lot during that film. When bringing the Panasonic optimizer into the mix it was pre-tone mapping the image down to 1000 nits so that when the Sony OLED's tone mapping got it's hands on it there wasn't as much left to map. It cleared the distracting brightness changes right up and I've stuck with using the Panasonic ever since.

I haven’t noticed that issue yet but something I can look out for!

Originally Posted by thebigcheese3k

Same here, I also wanted the ability to automatically turn on Dolby Vision. That’s a huge advantage this player has, considering some releases don’t indicate on the packaging they support DV.

Yeah that’s one of the quirks of the Sony. It’s not a huge deal for me and oddly enough the player can identify which discs are DV and which are not but can’t auto switch. If Sony can add that, they would have the best UHD player on the market when you consider price. If the auto switch annoys me enough I can use that and the optimizer as a reason to get the UB820.

[gunnerg]

The DV stuff is not too dark. Also DV has its own picture setting so I can completely tweak that separate from HDR settings. The more and more I research and look at comparison videos online, HDR generally is darker on a lot of scenes where it would normally be washed out with too much grey on SDR.

My guess would be, it must be too dark on the Sony 4k player if the owners are hanging out in the panasonic 820/9000 thread and thinking about one for it's optimizer. Can you see how this is able to translate to me this way? Meanwhile, many panasonic owners are turning their optimizers off. And can enjoy "dark" HDR & DV 4k transfers midday with curtains open. It's lovely. I'm definitely not longing for a feature from some other player manufacturer...yet. I do look forward to the future!

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by thebigcheese3k

Same here, I also wanted the ability to automatically turn on Dolby Vision. That’s a huge advantage this player has, considering some releases don’t indicate on the packaging they support DV.

Yeah, that also.

I'm a huge Sony fan, but their UHD players inability to auto detect DV is absolutely baffling. Besides the Optimiser, that's another advantage the Panasonic has over Sony.

[roguejp]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but I just can't find it... I just purchased the 820 and have been toying with the settings. As I have a LG 65E6 with max 600 nits I wanted to see if a feature that I read about makes a difference. You should be able to set the nits of your tv on this player (500, 1000 or 1500)? But I just can't seem to find where and my German manual isn't helpful....
Thanks in advance!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by roguejp

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but I just can't find it... I just purchased the 820 and have been toying with the settings. As I have a LG 65E6 with max 600 nits I wanted to see if a feature that I read about makes a difference. You should be able to set the nits of your tv on this player (500, 1000 or 1500)? But I just can't seem to find where and my German manual isn't helpful....
Thanks in advance!

There is no numerical setting. But these are how the different modes stack up:

Basic luminance = 500 nits

OLED = 1000

Medium or High = 1000

Super High = 1500

[roguejp]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There is no numerical setting. But these are how the different modes stack up:

Basic luminance = 500 nits

OLED = 1000

Medium or High = 1000

Super High = 1500

As always helpful Geoff, thank you! And on to testing I go.....

[aviosis]

Originally Posted by Samcor_NZ

I have a Sony A8G OLED and both the Sony X800M2 player and the Panasonic UB820. One of the benefits I found with the UB820 optimizer (in addition to the highlight detail retention) is that when using just the OLED's native tone mapping, there would be occasions where I would actually see the image brightening or darkening for a second or two immediately following a scene or shot change. This was super distracting to me as it was really obvious the tv was messing with the image and I realised the TV was simply taking a second or two to apply it's mapping to high nit content. The first 4K movie I watched where I caught this happening was 'Crazy Rich Asians'. It happened a lot during that film. When bringing the Panasonic optimizer into the mix it was pre-tone mapping the image down to 1000 nits so that when the Sony OLED's tone mapping got it's hands on it there wasn't as much left to map. It cleared the distracting brightness changes right up and I've stuck with using the Panasonic ever since.

I have a Sony A8G OLED as well. Just got the Panasonic UB820 to supplement my X800M2. Are there any settings adjustments I should make on the UB820 to optimize for my screen?

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Regarding the Optimiser, it's not just about managing brightness, don't listen to other people who've been spouting that bollocks. It's about keeping everything in range that the TV can handle and then tone mapping everything that it can't. Not every single disc will benefit from it, many are mastered at or below 1000 nits which most tellies can handle, and many new releases come with Dolby Vision which takes care of the mapping, but Sony don't use DV a hell of a lot and they specialise in Light Cannon™ HDR grades which can be a bastard to map properly. For those the Optimiser is well worth it.

This is exactly how I interpret how the Optimizer works!! I've noticed this with my LG C9. The C9's DTM does well with 1,000 nit films, like any Disney movie, but needs a little help with 4,000 nit films like the Harry Potter movies. That's where the Optimizer comes in. Sometimes it's subtle while other times the Optimizer makes a big change. Now say if your TV doesn't do a great job with DTM or doesn't have it at all, the Optimizer will take over and do it's own thing to help produce the best picture possible. This is one of the reasons why I love the 820!!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

This is exactly how I interpret how the Optimizer works!! I've noticed this with my LG C9. The C9's DTM does well with 1,000 nit films, like any Disney movie, but needs a little help with 4,000 nit films like the Harry Potter movies. That's where the Optimizer comes in. Sometimes it's subtle while other times the Optimizer makes a big change. Now say if your TV doesn't do a great job with DTM or doesn't have it at all, the Optimizer will take over and do it's own thing to help produce the best picture possible. This is one of the reasons why I love the 820!!

Yep, the Barry Trotter films can be a bastard to tone map. They really should have been put onto disc with Dolby Vision to take the mapping out of the hands of the in-house TV processing. The same could be said of any HDR10 disc to be fair, but part of the reason why the Potters are so maligned on UHD is because some TVs just can't map them properly.

[nachoju95]

Hi, I was having a problem with the Panny UB820, which converts DD audio to PCM. I have a Panny connected the audio to my Onkyo TX-NR575 and the video output to my LG B7.

I was watching The Dark Knight 4K, and when I select for the audio to come out of the Panasonic it appears to me that the signal is PCM 2.0, but if I select the TV output it comes to me as DD. Do you know why? Or does Panny always return the signal to PCM 2.0?

Could someone help me please!! I'm desperate!!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nachoju95

Hi, I was having a problem with the Panny UB820, which converts DD audio to PCM. I have a Panny connected the audio to my Onkyo TX-NR575 and the video output to my LG B7.

I was watching The Dark Knight 4K, and when I select for the audio to come out of the Panasonic it appears to me that the signal is PCM 2.0, but if I select the TV output it comes to me as DD. Do you know why? Or does Panny always return the signal to PCM 2.0?

Could someone help me please!! I'm desperate!!

Silly question perhaps, but how is the Panasonic connected to the AVR?

Also, make sure that Secondary Audio on the Panny is set to OFF.

It's also interesting that you're getting Dolby Digital out of the Dark Knight 4K at all when the main English track is DTS-HD MA, though if you're watching it with one of the dub tracks then those are indeed DD.

[tama]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

That's what happens on my LG C9 OLED. The picture dims (for the most part) when playing 4K UHD HDR content, even when my 820's optimizer is set to On. Now, it is my understanding that OLEDs are naturally darker/dimmer than most TVs for HDR content because they can only output about 700-800 nits. This explains why it is dim when the DLM is not turned on. But, I have also read that the DTM allows the TV to remap the HDR picture to compensate for that. The downside is that the algorithm that the C9 has can sometimes helps the picture and it can sometimes clip/ruin the picture. The DTM hasn't been perfected yet. This is probably why most have recommended that the DTM setting should be not activated. But without it, the picture remains relatively dim. It just seems like there are a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to HDR content and how it is played/outputted on a screen.

Late response here but it took awhile before I was able to sit down and do a bit of experimenting.

I'll go back to the 1st Avengers film. Example:

In the final act there is a moment as Iron Man is flying through the city the Sun is directly above/behind him. The next shot is the aircraft carrying Natasha/Flint/Cap. I picked this sequence and title because it's in a 1000 nit container so in this case the optimizer set to OLED (1000 nits) does nothing. When you activate DTM, in order for the TV to map the sun as to not be blown out it maps down the entire image making it dimmer in the process. Yes you get a bit more specular highlights but at the expense of a dimmer overall image. The very next scene with the aircraft with DTM on now becomes overbright likely due to the low nits in this scene. Nothing over bright in itself.

Without DTM yes you will lose specular highlights likely in the 800-1000 nit range but when the one scene transitions into the next the average brightness remains the same. Where as with DTM you jump from one end of the spectrum to another. I've been wondering if this is why OLED users would see a fluctuations in brightness, brightness lag with DTM.

[nachoju95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Silly question perhaps, but how is the Panasonic connected to the AVR?

Also, make sure that Secondary Audio on the Panny is set to OFF.

I have the Panny connected by the "Audio OUT" to the Onkyo in the "BD/DVD" port.

Here I leave screenshots of my configuration in the Panny:

HDMI Settings:

[Show spoiler]

HDMI Settings - Advanced Settings:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings - Digital Audio Output:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings - Settings for High Clarity Sound:

[Show spoiler]

Is there a problem that I haven't noticed?

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's also interesting that you're getting Dolby Digital out of the Dark Knight 4K at all when the main English track is DTS-HD MA, though if you're watching it with one of the dub tracks then those are indeed DD.

And yes, you are right, I have the dub track of "The Dark Knight" which is Dolby Digital.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by tama

Late response here but it took awhile before I was able to sit down and do a bit of experimenting.

I'll go back to the 1st Avengers film. Example:

In the final act there is a moment as Iron Man is flying through the city the Sun is directly above/behind him. The next shot is the aircraft carrying Natasha/Flint/Cap. I picked this sequence and title because it's in a 1000 nit container so in this case the optimizer set to OLED (1000 nits) does nothing. When you activate DTM, in order for the TV to map the sun as to not be blown out it maps down the entire image making it dimmer in the process. Yes you get a bit more specular highlights but at the expense of a dimmer overall image. The very next scene with the aircraft with DTM on now becomes overbright likely due to the low nits in this scene. Nothing over bright in itself.

Without DTM yes you will lose specular highlights likely in the 800-1000 nit range but when the one scene transitions into the next the average brightness remains the same. Where as with DTM you jump from one end of the spectrum to another. I've been wondering if this is why OLED users would see a fluctuations in brightness, brightness lag with DTM.

This is why content-derived dynamic metadata for such mapping gets around these kinds of fluctuations in brightness, because the TV essentially knows what's coming and can moderate its output ahead of time. But the more powerful that the standalone DTM analysis and processing becomes over time then the less 'dumb' and more efficient it'll be, though short of dropping several grand on a Radiance I'm not sure it'll ever quite match up to content-derived display management. Or not having any tone mapping at all, which is the ultimate goal (though metadata like this may still come in useful to prevent backlight pumping on LCD displays, should they make it that far into the future).

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by tama

Late response here but it took awhile before I was able to sit down and do a bit of experimenting.

I'll go back to the 1st Avengers film. Example:

In the final act there is a moment as Iron Man is flying through the city the Sun is directly above/behind him. The next shot is the aircraft carrying Natasha/Flint/Cap. I picked this sequence and title because it's in a 1000 nit container so in this case the optimizer set to OLED (1000 nits) does nothing. When you activate DTM, in order for the TV to map the sun as to not be blown out it maps down the entire image making it dimmer in the process. Yes you get a bit more specular highlights but at the expense of a dimmer overall image. The very next scene with the aircraft with DTM on now becomes overbright likely due to the low nits in this scene. Nothing over bright in itself.

Without DTM yes you will lose specular highlights likely in the 800-1000 nit range but when the one scene transitions into the next the average brightness remains the same. Where as with DTM you jump from one end of the spectrum to another. I've been wondering if this is why OLED users would see a fluctuations in brightness, brightness lag with DTM.

You are spot on with your observation. I have actually watched the 1st Avengers movie as well and have observed the same thing. This is where I think the algorithms of the TVs come into play. Some TVs do Dynamic Tone Mapping better than others. As some has said over in the HDR discussion thread, there hasn't been a overall rule or mandate as to how a TV should tone map. This is why LG, Sony, and Panasonic all have different methods of tone mapping.

It is very frustrating because I honestly love the way the specular highlights are when I have DTM on on my C9. But I know that it may not be the exact picture that it was intended to be seen. When I turn it off, I feel like I am missing out on all of the great specular highlights that comes with HDR that pop, which I feel like is part of the reason to watch a movie in 4K. For my own personal decision, I am leaving DTM ON for my LG C9 as well as keeping the Optimizer On as well on my 820. The crazy thing is, there is no right or wrong on this. It's really personal preference. Maybe soon though, there will be a rule or mandate as to how Dynamic Tone Mapping should be.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nachoju95

I have the Panny connected by the "Audio OUT" to the Onkyo in the "BD/DVD" port.

Here I leave screenshots of my configuration in the Panny:

HDMI Settings:

[Show spoiler]

HDMI Settings - Advanced Settings:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings - Digital Audio Output:

[Show spoiler]

Audio Settings - Settings for High Clarity Sound:

[Show spoiler]

Is there a problem that I haven't noticed?





And yes, you are right, I have the dub track of "The Dark Knight" which is Dolby Digital.

Yes but WHICH audio out? Are you using HDMI or the optical?

Turn Secondary Audio OFF as I said. Also turn off 7.1 reformatting.

[nachoju95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes but WHICH audio out? Are you using HDMI or the optical?

Turn Secondary Audio OFF as I said. Also turn off 7.1 reformatting.

Ah sorry I am using HDMI.

I made the modification you told me but PCM 2.0 still appears

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nachoju95

Ah sorry I am using HDMI.

I made the modification you told me but PCM 2.0 still appears

I'm out of ideas then, sorry.

[David M]

Interestingly, the UK Panasonic 820 I have here has an issue where, if the audio output format is Bitstream, it will downgrade both Dolby Digital and DTS tracks to their DVD-era lossy variants (in other words, only play the cores). I assume that it's delivering the full-fat streams when set to decode them to PCM. Secondary audio and other effects are off, so I'm at a loss to explain it. I haven't tried using the secondary HDMI output though.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by gnicks

Are you sure about that? Strictly speaking, I was under the impression that with high clarity sound on for movies, it turns off the unit's display and deactivates the analog connectors, which (theoretically) can improve sound quality. (AV Receivers often do the same thing via a 'pure direct' mode)

Now, whether it makes any perceivable difference, I have no idea. But I'm pretty sure it does something during movie playback.

99.9% sure

"The player has a High Clarity Sound mode that shuts off both video circuits and the front-panel display to reduce noise when playing music, and offers a range of Sound Effects settings to upsample lower-res files to up to 192-kHz/32-bit resolution or apply processing modes that model the effects of vacuum tube amps on audio signals."
- Sound and Vision

"And to step back into the audio realm for just a moment, Panasonic provides lots of audio-processing options, too. You can sweeten the sound of an overly bright or low-res soundtrack, for example, by tapping the “High Clarity” button on the remote. That will cycle through a variety of choices, including six “Digital Tube Sound” settings designed to mimic the warm sound you get from a vacuum tube amp (I liked #2 best)."
- TechHive

These settings are only available when playing a music CD, so it makes sense..yes you can use the setting to turn off the front display during movie, but I don't think it does anything. Especially since it's bitstream anyways.

Here's another opinion:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...33&postcount=3