BBFC decisions you agree/disagree with...

[koopabeach]

[QUOTE=Withnail74;20797399]I'm not even sure there's a market for R-18s anymore. Physical shops who can legally sell them are few and far between now and I'd be surprised if they rate more than a dozen a year at that category (annoyingly can't see any search function that allows you to search for any films with a given cert for any year now on their site).

They do still bother rating porn R-18.
I used the keyword 'sex'
Sex Party Guys (2022)
Cum To Grannys Sex Party (2022)
Amber Jayne Sex Addict (2021)
Anna De Ville Sex Addict (2021)
Etc.

It looks like they still cut R-18s for gagging and throat holding but can't find any cuts for other sex acts.

[McCrutchy]

It's less surprising that the BBFC are still classifying porn and more surprising that any companies are still submitting it. That it's still being submitted must mean that someone is making enough off of porn DVDs sold in the UK to bother. Unless there's some massive TV VOD windfall I'm missing, I should think every other type of porn consumption is either softcore TV broadcast or hardcore and over the internet via streaming or downloads, along with, of course, ordering DVDs from the US and Europe, all of which I understand are out of the BBFC's current purview.

[Withnail74]

Just found the stats in their annual report - 71 R18s in 2021, compared to 62 in 2020. Vastly reduced from the 5-600 a year between 2011 and 2015, since when it has been declining dramatically. 16% of the 2021 R18 submissions were cut for various choking, gagging, familial or underage references.

I seem to recall some kind of test case a few years ago where someone successfully defended an obscenity or extreme porn prosecution against things like sounding and watersports on the ground that they weren't necessarily harmful, and the BBFC reluctantly allowed these kinds of things in R18s after prevaricating for a few years.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by ZombieTwin2

I watched Jess Franco’s Shining Sex a few days ago and was surprised at how explicit it was for an 18 certificate.

There was plenty of labia on display, and with close-ups of erections and unsimulated cunniligus.

Kev W

The US release, assuming you watched the UK release, has extras 13 mins of "Very NSFW XXX Outtakes" which i doubt would bet passed the BBFC at 18.

[ZombieTwin2]

I’d heard about the outtakes. Is the U.K. release uncensored?

Kev W

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Withnail74

I'm not even sure there's a market for R-18s anymore. Physical shops who can legally sell them are few and far between now and I'd be surprised if they rate more than a dozen a year at that category (annoyingly can't see any search function that allows you to search for any films with a given cert for any year now on their site).

I figure most sex shops have enough things to sell without devoting retail space to discs which probably won’t shift.

[Withnail74]

I'm also not sure the police or trading standards are especially prioritising the unauthorised sale of R18s either - seemingly quite easy to find them for sale in shops and market stalls which sell more general adult material but aren't licensed.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by ZombieTwin2

I’d heard about the outtakes. Is the U.K. release uncensored?

Kev W

According to BBFC there's NO cuts. The Severin release, in addition to the XXX outtakes, have loads of extras including interview & "In the Land of Franco" part 3. The Severin release is worth getting, albeit the Limited Edition is the one to get as it contains "Daniel J. White: In the Land of Franco, Vol. 1" (CD) which is NOT in the standard edition.

[GaryCouzens]

Originally Posted by Withnail74

I'm not even sure there's a market for R-18s anymore. Physical shops who can legally sell them are few and far between now and I'd be surprised if they rate more than a dozen a year at that category (annoyingly can't see any search function that allows you to search for any films with a given cert for any year now on their site).

As the years have gone on since they liberalised, the criteria for allowing real sex at 18 seems to have slowly widened from being brief and contextually justified to as long as it's got some kind of story and isn't out-and-out porn. Although there are still some odd inconsistencies like Radley Metzger's Score which seems no more or less exploitative than a chunk of stuff they've passed with hardcore intact, yet they chose to cut it in 2012.

By all means keep the R18 but drop the outdated ban on mail order and requirement for a licensed sex shop to sell it. Seems as out-of-date as Ofcom's continued insistence on adult pay TV being softcore only these days.

I'm reading a Sight & Sound article from around the time the Video Recordings Act was passed ("Video Censors" by Neville Hunnings, Summer 1984 issue) and it says that availability by mail order was in the Act originally but was amended out. If they did allow mail order (which would need a change in the Act) then it's not impossible that certain boutiques might release certain cult hardcore titles. (Talking of Radley Metzger, Arrow did release The Opening of Misty Beethoven and The Private Afternoons of Pamela Mann at R18 in 2005, though the latter was cut by eight minutes.)

I don't know if there is any specific material which has to be R18 now which couldn't be passed at 18, but the difference between the two seems to come down to whether the BBFC considers the film a "sex work" or not. The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome is if nothing else a collection of "sex works" and my guess is that the only reason the BFI got that past at 18 was because they submitted the entire disc at once, i.e. with interviews, documentary and other contextual material. If they had submitted the films individually I'm sure most or all of them would have been landed with R18s.

[doomgen]

Originally Posted by GaryCouzens

(Talking of Radley Metzger, Arrow did release The Opening of Misty Beethoven and The Private Afternoons of Pamela Mann at R18 in 2005, though the latter was cut by eight minutes.)

I've wondered since knowing this if these actually got releases, or if Arrow were naively expecting 18s and withdrew the releases when they realised they were at a category that would make very little money for them. Tartan submitted an uncut version of The Pornographer for video along with the cut 18 version but ultimately decided against an R18 release due to how financially prohibitive the distribution of R18 works was. besides I'd say the average person who buys DVDs from sex shops would be fairly annoyed if they bought a DVD that's mostly just a slow and talky French drama with very little sex apart from the one scene the BBFC demanded cuts to.

[koopabeach]

Wild Things rated '18' again for strong sex. One actual brief sex scene that looks tame next to the uncut 15 rated Monster's Ball. Two kissing scenes with bare breasts. One non-sexual shower nudity scene, that's it. I guess because mainly the intention with Wild Things was to be softcore pornography?
https://www.bbfc.co.uk/release/wild-...jpwwc0zmjq5mtq

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by koopabeach

Wild Things rated '18' again for strong sex. One actual brief sex scene that looks tame next to the uncut 15 rated Monster's Ball. Two kissing scenes with bare breasts. One non-sexual shower nudity scene, that's it. I guess because mainly the intention with Wild Things was to be softcore pornography?
https://www.bbfc.co.uk/release/wild-...jpwwc0zmjq5mtq

Excuse me, that's "strong thrusty sex".

[hakunamufasa]

Originally Posted by koopabeach

Wild Things rated '18' again for strong sex... looks tame next to the uncut 15 rated Monster's Ball. I guess because mainly the intention with Wild Things was to be softcore pornography?
https://www.bbfc.co.uk/release/wild-...jpwwc0zmjq5mtq

Pretty much - they said in a more exploitative context Monster's Ball would have merited an 18, but went for 15 given the serious intent and narrative importance.

"The award-winning US film Monster's Ball contained at least one sex scene which might have justified an '18' certificate had it occurred in a film offering sexual thrills as the primary pleasure.

Carefully placed in a serious and moving drama, and clearly intended to provide insight into the characters involved, their emotional states and their complex relationship, the scene was judged to be acceptable in the context of the film as a whole at certificate '15'."

Rated 18 in Australia, Ireland and Canada, so obvs a borderline call (15 was the right one imho).

[hakunamufasa]

Also bear in mind the new submission for Wild Things is the uncut/extended version, reinstating material removed for the R rating and MPAA.

If you're going by the (tamer content of the) theatrical cut, it may well be downgraded on a new submission.

Same with Candyman - only the uncut version was resubmitted in 2018 and downgraded to 15, but the R-rated version wasn't, so the overall release remains at 18.

[koopabeach]

Originally Posted by RossyG

Terminator 3.

Another strong 12A is Last of the Mohicans rated R in the USA. Even bloodier overall than Terminator 3. There is an ambush attack at the beginning - bloody exit wounds and blood is shown but the blood forms in a cloud. Many people are slashed and then blood pours from the wounds. A man is scalped by an Indian, his skull is seen for a split-second. An obscured slit throat with blood spray on face. A scene where a heart is ripped from a chest with the bloody heart held aloft. And this is without mentioning the brutal fight at the end including arm hit with weapon showing bone sticking out, and then the weapon is thrust through the body with gore.

The Last of the Mohicans Final Battle (Promentory) (HD) - YouTube - YouTube

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by koopabeach

I saw 'A Man Called Otto' rated 15 for a suicide theme. Before I saw the film, I questioned if it should be a 12a but I think the BBFC was right to give it a 15 rating. The focus on all the ways one can commit suicide throughout would've been strange and unprecedented at 12, even though the film can't really decide what tone it wants to settle with.

Just watched the film, it has some intense and upsetting moments but I think I would give it a 12 personally. The suicide attempts feel similar to Groundhog Day in that they’re unsuccessful and used to comedic effect. While it does present a variety of suicide methods (hanging, a gun, being hit by the train, carbon monoxide poisoning), it doesn’t show that much to really be imitable. Also the whole point of the film is to be life affirming and finding reasons to carry on even when you’ve lost the things you care about. However, I did find the trailer downplayed the suicide angle to focus on the grumpy old man aspect.

Was A Man Called Ove rated in a similar way?

One thing I find interesting is how M3GAN was apparently toned down with reshoots to make it less gory and meet the requirements of a PG-13, but ended up being a 15 in the UK.

[CavebobSpongeman]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

One thing I find interesting is how M3GAN was apparently toned down with reshoots to make it less gory and meet the requirements of a PG-13, but ended up being a 15 in the UK.

That happened with Fall as well. They edited the film to remove some of the swearing for a PG-13 but it still ended up being a 15 over here, same as the uncut version they released on bluray.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

One thing I find interesting is how M3GAN was apparently toned down with reshoots to make it less gory and meet the requirements of a PG-13, but ended up being a 15 in the UK.

Most horror films are automatic 15’s here, mainly because of our slight sensitivity to more realistic depictions of violence, but also they had a complete fiasco with children getting brought to see The Woman in Black due to some slight toning down to get it at a 12a.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Most horror films are automatic 15’s here, mainly because of our slight sensitivity to more realistic depictions of violence, but also they had a complete fiasco with children getting brought to see The Woman in Black due to some slight toning down to get it at a 12a.

Well of course that had to be done, it's got Harry Potter in it after all. The kids would have thrown an even bigger wobbly if they weren't allowed to see it

[eddyw78]

Originally Posted by koopabeach

Another strong 12A is Last of the Mohicans rated R in the USA. Even bloodier overall than Terminator 3. There is an ambush attack at the beginning - bloody exit wounds and blood is shown but the blood forms in a cloud. Many people are slashed and then blood pours from the wounds. A man is scalped by an Indian, his skull is seen for a split-second. An obscured slit throat with blood spray on face. A scene where a heart is ripped from a chest with the bloody heart held aloft. And this is without mentioning the brutal fight at the end including arm hit with weapon showing bone sticking out, and then the weapon is thrust through the body with gore.

The Last of the Mohicans Final Battle (Promentory) (HD) - YouTube - YouTube

Wasn’t there a suicide scene in this too? I can remember seeing this at the cinema back in the day and thinking how rough it was for a 12 though obviously nowhere near as graphic as say Braveheart. Great movie. Love the soundtrack.