HDR heatmaps and torch mode UHDs

[fkid]

Top Gun: Maverick (2022)

HDR BL vs. DoVi FEL HEATmaps/GAMUTmaps

HDR10 PLOT


Cheers!

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by Macatouille

This release was initially criticized around here for just being a 2K DI upscale but I've always thought it looked sharp and had wide HDR usage.

It was always going to be an upscale because it's a 2K DI movie. The criticism came mainly from it looking a bit sharpened and overcooked, it feels like Universal tinkered with it on their own to make it pop, without Tarantino's involvement, kinda like how they did with Looper.

[fkid]

Gladiator (2000)

HDR BL vs. DoVi FEL HEATmaps/GAMUTmaps

HDR10 PLOT


Cheers!

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by dorian

Exactly. The times I notice a larger gamut is usually when it's gone too far. It's partly why I'm hesitant to post gamut visualisation maps because I feel like I'm contributing the idea that more chromatic = more better. A larger colour gamut should aid in faithfully reproducing aesthetic intent, not showcasing technological advances.



There are prototype displays that hit those peaks but I don't think any can surpass 2000 nits full screen. The bigger question is why would you ever want that? These displays are impressive at events where the ambient light overpowers even reasonably bright TVs, but in a home environment would be way too bright.

The argument is that real world reflective and emissive light levels are far brighter, and while that is true, you have to keep in mind that our eyes take time to adapt to different luminance ranges. If you've been outside for a while, thousands of nits are no issue but shut your eyes for a few minutes and see how uncomfortable the light is once you open them. Likewise, scenes in a film can arbitrarily go from an average of 1 nit to hundreds or thousands.

I think 1000 nits is more nits than we'll ever need. Almost all content that exceeds 1000 nits has been clipped in the grading tone curve anyway. I think we can all agree that 1000 nits is bright so why do we need brighter for the sake of brightness?

Even if you put that aside, 10,000 nits would have a significant impact on the lifespan of LEDs and may even require active cooling. I'm glad people are realising that the endeavour for more and more nits, at least for consumer displays, is misguided. We're seeing it with UHDs too. Many of the early UHDs had insanely bright peaks and averages, but now that the novelty has worn off, we're seeing much more reasonable presentations.

I think that 1000nits cap is too little, and essentially gimping the format for the sake of some of today's brightness-impaired models. While it is true you probably don't need 100% at 4000 nits, a small group of pixels at 4000 nits isn't all that bright. So you could use those upper nits for more nuanced "highlights of highlights," and future microled displays should be able to display it without issue

Currently there are 5000nit mastering monitors such as the 2300-zone mini-led Flanders XM312U, which I believe is the most advanced professional mastering monitor commercially available ($22,000 for 31", on backorder at the moment!)

[fkid]

They Live (1988)

HDR BL vs. DoVi FEL HEATmaps/GAMUTmaps

HDR10 PLOT


Cheers!

[fkid]

The Silence of the Lambs (1991)

HDR BL vs. DoVi FEL HEATmaps/GAMUTmaps

HDR10 PLOT


Cheers!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Currently there are 5000nit mastering monitors such as the 2300-zone mini-led Flanders XM312U, which I believe is the most advanced professional mastering monitor commercially available ($22,000 for 31", on backorder at the moment!)

TCL have a 5,184/5,000 local dimming zones/nits display on the way. 98" 85" screen sizes with 160W Atmos.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by chip75

TCL have a 5,184/5,000 local dimming zones/nits display on the way. 98" 85" screen sizes with 160W Atmos.

Would be a good combo to use the Flanders XM312U for grading work on the computer, then the TCL for QC & observation on how the grade looks on a consumer-sized TV. Anyhow it seems these new flagship 5000nit mini-led mastering displays are displacing the previous flagship OLED models in the space. Wonder how long before Samsung will have a 5000nit 85" mini led TV for consumers that is under $5k... Their best current one (QN95C) uses about 1/3 the LEDs of that TCL and consequently about 1/3 the brightness. If that happens next gen (QN95D or whatever), I'll def upgrade my QN90A to that.

[Macatouille]

Out of Sight (1998)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1439 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 281 cd/m2

Heatmaps (Album)

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations (Album)

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[Macatouille]

Really nice HDR grade: highlights past 1.7k nits but it doesn't blow out the average. Subdued where it needs to be.

A ton of WCG usage too, at least from my own shots (the Universal Studios ad being among the most colorful of the pack):

[Macatouille]

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1090 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 206 cd/m2

Heatmaps (Album)

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations (Album)

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[Macatouille]

Originally Posted by Azurfel

DCI-P3 wasn't standardized until the release of Digital Cinema System Specification V1.0 on 2005.07.20, so it is reasonable to expect that most older digital intermediates would have been Rec. 709 (and a at least a few were probably sRGB or Rec. 601). For example, Revenge of the Sith was also entirely within the bounds of Rec. 709 iirc.

I'm curious what a DI that was explicitly graded for the filmout from that era would look like in this regard. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind would probably be a good test case, since we know that Kino's release was scanned from a filmout rather than pulling directly from the DI.

Per your request.

This one has some occasional details in the WCG but nothing crazy. Definitely more than Spider-Man, though, which prompted the conversation:

[matbezlima]

Most links in the OP to Pyoko's HDR heatmaps and color gamut analyses are sadly broken.

Random news: do you guys know that the site HD Numerique is now sharing color gamut graphs too for their latest reviews? This is Enter The Dragon 4K. And, if the graphs are accurate, this disc really took full advantage of the entire Rec. 2020 color space. Look at 1:20, that's insane!

YouTube

[Macatouille]

John Wick (2014)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 169 cd/m2

Heatmaps (Album)

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations (Album)

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[Macatouille]

MaxCLL is 896 nits but the vast majority of my shots were under 400 nits in the highlights. Only two exceeded (with small lights shining):



Not to spoil it but this is easily the most tame HDR grade of the first three movies (I don't own 4 yet). As for the WCG, I found quite a few shots exceeding Rec. 709 and P3, and in big ways:

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by dorian

Bright indeed. The subtitles themselves are at 4000 nits but the edges of the text reach peak white, hence the 10, 000 nit reading.

[Show spoiler]

I think I might have found another Kino 4K BD with torch mode subtitles (i.e. 4000/10000 nits!).

More specifically this one:



Are any of you HDR wizards able to analyze a screenshot from it with subtitles included to confirm this suspicion? I.e. like dorian did with The Usual Suspects in the quote above.

If as suspected, I think The Usual Suspects 4K BD may not have been a single odd production mistake, but that Kino has a systematic problem affecting several of their 4K BD titles in that they have the subtitles set to max HDR brightness.

[Macatouille]

John Wick: Chapter 2 (2017)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 510 cd/m2

Heatmaps (Album)

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations (Album)

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[Macatouille]

A noticeable uptick in luminance here, in both highlights and average: MaxCLL up over 400 nits and MaxFALL 200. The mirror room shootout is a highlight (no pun intended):



Like the last movie, it makes excellent use of the WCG:

[matbezlima]

Could you do all the films from the first two Hitchcock 4K volumes by Universal, as the third volume comes out next month?

[Macatouille]

Originally Posted by matbezlima

Could you do all the films from the first two Hitchcock 4K volumes by Universal, as the third volume comes out next month?

Can definitely do the first but I don’t have the second volume (yet).

Posting the third John Wick tomorrow and then next week is Tenet, Robocop, Blow Out, Gemini Man and The Untouchables.