Discotek Blu-rays

[Tylerfan]

On the bright side of things:
https://twitter.com/MichaelToole/sta...87615115563121

Originally Posted by Mike Toole

the furor over the LOVELY COMPLEX dubbed version has resulted in... the show almost getting pushed into the top 10 anime chart on Amazon. Come on people, we can do it!!

[snowmint]

Hahaha! I need to check out the dub too in hopes of more passion project productions.

[BigOnAnime]

Originally Posted by Lum

People are making this more complicated than it needs to be.
A translation is accurate, or it isn't.

All the rambling about grifters and reactionaries, totally distracts from the central topic.

The problem is translation discourse has been a dumpster fire for years, in part because of grifters and reactionaries, as well as harassing people to the point they will leave Twitter, like what happened over a My Hero Academia chapter years back. This is what you often get for discourse, a separate incident years later, but still.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hodgson

https://twitter.com/notvalclover/sta...24609056890882

This is kind of a perfect encapsulation of why a lot of translation critique on this website is fundamentally flawed. Just about everyone complaining about the official release is kneejerking without looking at the original JP.

https://twitter.com/DistantValhalla/...31522084712449

Originally Posted by Andrew Hodgson

The original has "author's notes" trying to make sense of Camie's lingo. It's meant to read obnoxiously and offputting, to the point where the author gets baffled by the fifth note in the margins. The official translation replicates the effect but with translator's notes instead.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpaBY_oX...=png&name=orig

https://twitter.com/DistantValhalla/...31522084712449

Originally Posted by Andrew Hodgson

Translation discourse online is regularly meaningless because the loudest/most confident sounding people rarely put in the legwork to know whether there's a problem. Too many times the output is the only thing considered while the most crucial part, the input, is ignored.

https://twitter.com/DistantValhalla/...31522084712449

Originally Posted by *****yAmi

Translation discourse on the internet fails to have an answer to the most common pitfall: what if the author meant it to be cringe

https://twitter.com/i/status/1627674133134774272

Also in part because of old low-quality fansubs that skewed what people view as a good translation or not. Modern fansubbers with actual standards will also get shit on like they're FUNimation/CR/Sentai/Discotek, etc. when they try to put out quality rather than stuff that should have stayed in 2000s fansubs.

Then you have the people trying to make it out like it's both the dub and sub with the exact same issues (worth nothing the *subs* for Maid Dragon reportedly had issues), and everything is being censored. Never mind the people that think Crunchyroll and FUNimation are censoring stuff when they're streaming the same broadcast masters used in Japan on non-premium channels. Love when people don't get basic things right and then misinformation spreads.
https://twitter.com/Rev_says_desu/st...37915076743346
https://twitter.com/Rev_says_desu/st...37916490338758

To try to get more back on track, there should have been much more vetting here. This JelloApocalypse guy apparently had a history of making it known he's an egotistical narcissist, and yet he was allowed to work on this? Still curious how much of the stuff he tried to put in that shouldn't went through.

I'm not a fan of very liberal dubs. Comedy is about where there's more room, especially as many puns or references won't translate well, but non-comedy stuff? When I heard High School DxD's dub basically threw the JP script in the trash, I lost any interest in ever watching it dubbed. I'm also still frustrated with what happened to Free! due to J. Michael Tatum turning one of the best anime sequels ever (Eternal Summer) into dudebro. The rest reportedly turned out fine when a leash was put on him, but ugh. There are many names that if I see attached to something, I will be wary (Ex: Steven Foster, J. Michael Tatum). The same can apply to certain translators, like Jennifer Challenger, as her track record is not good. Thankfully she rarely is the main translator for Sentai stuff now, and usually is the "Supervising Translator".

Bad translations and dub scripts can make me rather paranoid at times on how I watch stuff. All these years, and this stuff still can end up happening. Lovely Complex is a show I've not seen in almost 11 years, so my memory is bad, but I remember really liking it, and I was actually looking forward to the dub, a new way to experience an old favorite. Seeing the news made my heart sink.

On another note, that JelloApocalypse guy is like 17 days younger than me, yet far more immature. Even younger me when I'd rant about stuff wouldn't say the kind of stuff he did.

[Lum]

On a personal level, I'm not easily offended. Some of my most favorite shows are major departures from the source material. The likes of Pokemon replace the music and graphics, remove multiple entire episodes, etc.

Ergo a show's translation would have to be pretty outrageous for me to not watch it, even for curiosity's sake. Watching a bad translation to learn from its mistakes isn't wrong.

[Girls With Guns]

Ha, I just received my copy of discotek's Lovely Complex Blu-ray just the other day, but even still I'll never hear that dub on the disk.

Heck, even the subtitles will probably be too localized for my tastes. I bought this series going in totally blind, and I'm a big fan of shojo in general, but overall, this doesn't really sound like a series I will actually care much for, so I'm not sure I'll keep it. I'm not one that goes for comedy in anime anyway, so I definitely don't need even more comedy not in the original script added in on purpose. Give me a good, serious drama shojo any day.

[BigOnAnime]

Originally Posted by Lum

On a personal level, I'm not easily offended. Some of my most favorite shows are major departures from the source material. The likes of Pokemon replace the music and graphics, remove multiple entire episodes, etc.

Ergo a show's translation would have to be pretty outrageous for me to not watch it, even for curiosity's sake. Watching a bad translation to learn from its mistakes isn't wrong.

The thing is, just the tiniest thing can drastically alter the meaning of a line.

Originally Posted by AnimeAjay

Present in both Funi's Blu-ray and the Manga UK webrip is this mistranslation.

The correct line should read:

"I will be killed by Broly".

https://twitter.com/AnimeAjay/status...15440894025729

That error is also in the dub. This mistake makes Paragus seem more sympathetic when that isn't the case.

Originally Posted by B0bduh

https://twitter.com/SpiritusNox15/st...43422886199297

Apparently Sentai screwed up the translation of episode six's major scene so disastrously that they basically reversed the intent of Touko's confession, making her a far less sympathetic character. Wow

https://twitter.com/B0bduh/status/1091346759257939980

The official translation for Banner of the Subs botched the subtle details in the original Japanese script. Lots of stuff in this really old thread below.
https://www.gpforums.co.nz/viewtopic...23330#p2123330

To go into another example, Tenchi Muyo!.

Originally Posted by Astro Nerd Boy

...what I recall off the top of my head is the scene where Sasami meets Tenchi. The subtitles ADD words to what Tenchi says

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...00524170301440

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

He basically says, "How cute" and Sasami blushes because he could be talking about her being cute.

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...00712523915265

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

The subtitles say, "That's a cute pet" (or something like that), removing a reason for Sasami to be blushing.

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...00916824268803

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

It is a small thing, but it was the first clue as to Sasami's developing feelings for Tenchi.

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...01054317740032

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Tenchi was referring to the critter Sasami had, but he never said anything about he critter.

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...01535035318272

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

In Kajishima stories, he likes to say things that are clues or the like, which is why the subtitles needed accuracy.

https://twitter.com/AstroNerdBoy/sta...01797166743552

This shows the importance of doing a good job, especially when translating from a context-heavy language like Japanese. A bad translation can be worse than no translation at all, as strange as that may sound.

[Edit]Throwing this in too.

Originally Posted by zoid9000

Did you know translations with mistakes can get updated? It's true! In the interest of full disclosure, I screwed up a minor line in last week's Ahiru no Sora. I fixed it days ago and now it shows up properly on HIDIVE (not CR tho). Comparison below (original then update):

https://twitter.com/zoid9000/status/1258121271633641473

Originally Posted by zoid9000

The story here is that the Japanese line was throwing out a bunch of numbers that I misinterpreted as being like a rank (1st, 2nd, 3rd), but they actually refer to specific positions in basketball (1 = point guard, 2 = shooting guard, etc). I didn't do enough research, sorry!

https://twitter.com/zoid9000/status/1258121273089105920

Originally Posted by zoid9000

I think this stresses the importance of reviewing your own work. I always "rewatch" episodes of stuff I work on when they get released (since I work on them ahead of time), and sometimes it'll hit me that I heard something wrong, or the subtitler placed something wrong, etc.

https://twitter.com/zoid9000/status/1258121275295305728

Originally Posted by zoid9000

This helped me realize one of my bad translation biases in that 一番 makes me jump to "best" too quickly. I should have realized the idea of "4th or 5th tier" in a team of 5 was weird. It doesn't help that characters often call out jersey numbers instead of names in this show.

https://twitter.com/zoid9000/status/1258122450900070401

[SteamfloggerBoss]

I watched Lupin Sweet Lost Night this evening. I wouldn't call it one of my favorites. Definitely a bit of "weird" Lupin here. The opening sequence was good. Some of the CGI was bad enough to be distracting. Mid tier Lupin special for me.

[SMD88]

Originally Posted by BigOnAnime

If anyone wants to see for themselves how bad the Japanese upscale of Blue Seed was...
https://web.archive.org/web/20111108...4D16C5E12BC854

Little surprise they went the SDBD route.

3X3 EYES was even worse. The LDs are a horrible blended mess, bad colour, noisy as hell. Why on Earth did they even try to release these as BDs and charge as if they were REAL BD masters? Unbelievable. More unbelievable that these are all "premium" priced items now. Bit of a joke, really.

My question about Blue Seed was not to do with the hideous "blu-ray" upscale, I was just hoping they received fresh, as in untouched, analogue Jp masters and that it was not the icky ADV masters. Too bad. As I said, I will assume Bakuretsu Hunters is the same. My Bakuretsu Hunters LDs are actually really nice looking so I assume the DVDs would look good if it was fresh analogue masters from Japan. But as I said, I will assume it is the ADV masters with hideous English title and hard subs etc. Yuck.

Too bad Discotek did not put out Elf wo Karu Mono-tachi on SD-BD, THEY may have gotten the component masters from Japan! Friggin' Sentai just used their old ADV masters which are composhit-rainbow city!

[SMD88]

Originally Posted by Glorian

If you put left wing politics into something, don't be surprised when it gets a reaction from the right wing. I guarantee you that the people ranting about a right wing backlash would be doing the same thing if the localizers had inserted pro-Trump or other right wing lines into something. It's pure hypocrisy from people who think it's okay when it's their stuff; because they think they're better than those people they look down on.

Don't insert politics into this stuff, right or left, plain and simple. The world's toxic and angry enough without dragging that into everything.

Oh, and don't make other major alterations either, small adjustments for mouth fits or translation difficulties are one thing, but it is not your job to change the original work, period. It's like me ordering a chicken sandwich, and the worker giving me a fish sandwich instead because he likes them better. Totally unacceptable, and it should be a firing offense.

I don't like the idea of using AI for localization, but the more stuff like this happens, the louder the calls for it will be. The industry needs to police this stuff and blacklist the people who do it, whenever it happens, or they'll make the case for their own replacement. Which Discotek did, in all fairness, but their statement suggests it wasn't because of the alterations; attempting to alter the original as much as he did should have been a firing offense in its own right, even if they didn't adopt those changes.

Why do Americans insist that anything to do with sexuality is somehow "politics"? Ooops, sorry, I meant the LGBT.... and whatever other bloody letters are in it now, sexuality. People's lives are not a political subject.

I don't agree that things should be toned down or changed in subs. If you DO want to change things, do it in the dub. The Japanese language is already set in stone and should not be changed, just translate the damned thing accurately. I know "the dub crowd" would not agree with that, but my point is that you are supposed to be translating something that is already written and exists. A dub dialogue script has to be created from scratch because it cannot be a direct translation of the script as subtitles for the original language should be.

I mentioned the Kyatto Ninden Teyandee sub here, it has been so toned down and "kiddy-fied" that it is awful to watch if you know what they are saying. For christ's sake, a character said "kuso" and the subs said "ohhhhhh", seriously? I guess kiddies are not allowed to say "damn" in the US, letalone hear it or read it. I thought the world was out of the 1940's. That type of thing pisses me off in subs. Toning things down or changing it because it is a child that says it or worse, a teenage girl.

I have been watching my Dragon Ball with the funi subs for the first time. I did not understand why Goku suddenly started saying "darn it/darn you" all the time in the Red Ribbon arc. Friggin' ridiculous. Someone is trying to kill him, he is so mad he says "darn you!". Give me a break. "Heck" is another of those dumb, fake American words in subs that annoys the HELL out of me.

BUT!! Kuririn called the blonde army dude a "flaming homo". Inferring that it would be easy to beat him, because he was just a flaming homo. Nice! But hey, at least they kept it in the subs, but at the same time, Goku suddenly got watered down. Homophobic shit is just to be expected in 80's anime. If you release a show and it has it in it, it should stay in it as it was written and recorded in the 80's as far as I am concerned. Just makes me roll my eyes when I see/hear it in Jp stuff.

Although I was incredibly put off Marmalade Boy because the of homophobic shit. Stopped watching it for a very long time. But that show sucked anyway, was a haaaaaard slog to get through it. Shame as it was a show I had wanted to see for so long (I kind of forgot I had the old Tokyo Pop DVD boxes from many years ago!). It was right upthere, in my mind, with Hana Yori Dango and other classic 90's shoujo. Boy was I wrong! I hated the main character so much! She was an annoying, selfish little a-hole.

[dubudavid]

This has been mentioned elsewhere when Samurai Pizza Cats came up, but the subtitles on the Japanese version disc were actually just the sale scripts from the licensor, which are notoriously terrible. This came out a long time before MediaOCD's involvement with Discotek, and we would never, ever use subs like that under our production these days. It's the same reason much of the time I and other translators go over live action films' subs too since many of those tracks are based on sales scripts as well (though for television, they are far worse in quality usually).

Also, small note on the above, the Japanese language barely has words strong enough to be considered swear words like we use in English. Words like "kuso" and "chikusho" are often translated as "damn (it (all))", but the actual strength of these words don't come anywhere near the "bad word" status of English swears, so a lot of the time translators will go for weaker versions of them like "darn it/you" and it's still a valid translation on its own, maybe for the context it would be better to go stronger though. I don't think it's a case of anything being "watered down", since Japanese usually doesn't have strong swear words like that to begin with, but yeah, I would probably prefer the stronger variants myself.

[Glorian]

Originally Posted by SMD88

Why do Americans insist that anything to do with sexuality is somehow "politics"? Ooops, sorry, I meant the LGBT.... and whatever other bloody letters are in it now, sexuality. People's lives are not a political subject.

Not wanting to get into politics much, but people's lives ARE THE ONLY political subject, directly or indirectly. Changes in law and policy have direct effect on people's lives, and are tangled up in their morals and values too. And any time you're trying to change law or policy, it's politics; you don't get to try changing things politically, then dismiss people who disagree by saying it isn't political, it's people.

Saying that your goals aren't political, but everyone who disagrees is, is just a way of painting yourself as morally superior as an excuse to dismiss people and ideas you don't like. It's contemptible, and it's foolish; those people still live in the country, and it hardens disagreement and inflames hatred.

I see the same kind of arrogant moralizing on the right and the left, and an alarming, and growing, number of people with the belief that anyone who disagrees with them is evil, immoral, or bigoted in some way.

[DTGee]

Firing Jello was definitely a step in the right direction. However, Discotek and the anime industry as a whole needs to publicly condemn that kind of localization. Otherwise, people are just going to say, "Well, you don't actually think he did anything wrong. You're just upset that he got caught." People like Jello who think anime dubs should be used as a mouthpiece for their political/ideological beliefs really only make up a tiny fraction of the industry, and that needs to be made clear.

[El_Fez]

Originally Posted by SteamfloggerBoss

I watched Lupin Sweet Lost Night this evening. I wouldn't call it one of my favorites. Definitely a bit of "weird" Lupin here. The opening sequence was good. Some of the CGI was bad enough to be distracting. Mid tier Lupin special for me.

I have to give that one another watch someday. I was WAAAAAY too blazed that night to follow the plot.

[Röckzilla]

Man, and here I thought "anime gals' watermelon tits" was a touchy subject to bring up for discussion in this thread... sheesh!
Wake me up when the latest round of new Discotek releases are actually revealed...

[Tylerfan]

Gonna beat the dead horse one last time

https://twitter.com/Schaffrillas/sta...ewtwitter=true

Originally Posted by Schaffrillas

JelloApocalypse was a huge inspiration to me. One time he said something like "I wish more people would wake up and realize Ratatouille is mediocre", and I thought "Wow, what a miserable mindset! From now on I'm going to heavily encourage my fans to form their own media opinions"

https://twitter.com/Schaffrillas/sta...ewtwitter=true

Originally Posted by Schaffrillas

This is a true story btw. He said it in an extended Patreon review of every Pixar movie and it completely shifted my mindset on how I should present my opinions. It also shifted my mindset on giving him money

[Mike0284]

Originally Posted by Tylerfan

On the bright side of things:
https://twitter.com/MichaelToole/sta...87615115563121

[Show spoiler]

[Watershipdownisgood]

Well that’s disappointing and this is coming from somebody that really liked the weird sci fi angle used in the Elusiveness of the Fog and I think that specials very underrated. I’ll still check out the special but honestly I would not be surprised if I don’t like it that much. Hopefully the next two specials that get released on Blu Ray are much much better.

[Watershipdownisgood]

Yes that is so true I like that it’s close to the top 10 anime being bought or ordered. And is up there with freaking Sailor Moon, Perfect Blue man I need that steelbook so bad, and Cowboy Bebop. Gosh that Perfect Blue steel book is amazing been eyeing that steelbook for a long time. No wonder that anime film is so popular and man do I need to rewatch it again after I get that steel book.

[Gowho]

Originally Posted by dubudavid

This has been mentioned elsewhere when Samurai Pizza Cats came up, but the subtitles on the Japanese version disc were actually just the sale scripts from the licensor, which are notoriously terrible.

So basically like Toeilations? Not surprised!

[SpaceDandy]

Originally Posted by SMD88

the Mangaka would not allow that to happen to their shows for a start

The mangaka opinion is absolutely irrelevant to what a licensor, or a production committee does to the storage of masters.