Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[Sky_Captain]

I picked up the UK set today, which has already been reduced in a number of stores.

After watching The Fellowship, I can honestly say that anyone that thinks that that is a bad transfer, in the Gladiator vein, needs a slap.

Is it flawed? Certainly. Is it unwatchable? No. Does it resemble an upscaled DVD? No.

Some people need to get a grip on life.

[jonmoz]

Good job from Ken Brown he has cleared up a lot of issues i feel.

Big T, the discs are the same wherever you buy them,as they all use the same digital master.The only way they will be different is if you buy them from someone with dodgy photocopy covers ie (PIRATE COPYS).

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Sky_Captain

I picked up the UK set today, which has already been reduced in a number of stores.

After watching The Fellowship, I can honestly say that anyone that thinks that that is a bad transfer, in the Gladiator vein, needs a slap.

Is it flawed? Certainly. Is it unwatchable? No. Does it resemble an upscaled DVD? No.

Some people need to get a grip on life.

Good that you decided for yourself to see how it looked and came to the same conclusion like me and many others in this thread that there is far worse blu ray transfers out there. Just wait til you get to TTT and ROTK they look fantastic

[scott.mcw]

Picked up the last copy at my local Best Buy the other night. I watched a little of Fellowship last night and have to say that I'm fine with how it looks. I own the EEs on DVD but prefer the TEs and can't see myself buying the EEs again.

[BluLobsta]

Does anyone know what the foreign language is at the end of the credits of FOTR right after Peter Jackson thanks his parents? Looks like maybe native New Zealand?? Not a biggie...just curious what it says if any trivia buffs know...

[42041]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

Does anyone know what the foreign language is at the end of the credits of FOTR right after Peter Jackson thanks his parents? Looks like maybe native New Zealand?? Not a biggie...just curious what it says if any trivia buffs know...

Maori I think.

[42041]

Had an opportunity to borrow the first movie for the weekend. Haven't had the time to view it yet but I've thumbed through a few scenes... while the film is obviously a good looking one, the blu-ray transfer looks utterly average to me, as I expected

I wonder if WB is looking for more video compressionists, seems like the least stressful job in the world

I also prefer the color timing on the 3-minute theatrical trailer in many scenes

[Russell_L]

Originally Posted by Gremal

The CD issue has to do with manufacturing processes of the discs themselves. Anyone know if LOTR discs came from different BD production plants? I suspect many of the different perceptions of LotR BDs are due to different home theater setups and misconceptions about how these films really looked in the theater--Ken has done his due diligence but most people seem to think the originals had tremendous depth and detail on the silver screen. They did not. CGI was a big reason.

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

That has to do with jitter.

Most folks don't realize that only the vertical axis of digital-audio is "digital"... the amplitude of each sample is measured with a bit word: digital. However, the horizontal axis is basically "real time", and so if the samples are run throug the d/a converter in a smooth, even manner just like they were originally sampled to begin with... you get good sound out of the d/a converter.

however, if there's time-clock variation, then the samples pass throug the d/a conversion process unevenly (even if the average time clock speed is the same). This is called "jitter" and it can degrade the sound of the d/a process.

Jitter can get introduced in a number of places when we talk about CD playback. Shocking as it may be, the *pressing* of the CD itself is one place. How? Because many CD players use the raw RF signal generated during the laser-read as their master-clock to send along side the audio samples. Therefore, a cleaner pressing that produces a cleaner RF signal can produce a cleaner clock. Please note that these very small timing errors in no way affect the integrity of the recovered bit-data... only the *d/a conversion* process itself is affected in a negative way if it's fed a clock with timing variability.

Jitter is also a reason why some gold CDs sound better than aluminum discs pressed from the same glass master: gold CDs produce cleaner RF signals when red by the lasers in most transports.

Some CD players generate "asyncranous" clocks that are in no way associated with the raw RF signal. Those types of playback systems would be immune to jitter in the transport and basically play the discs in a way that sounds identical. However such CD players are actually few and far between. There are also outboard devices that reclock data in various ways to try to reduce or elliminate timing variability to scrub/reclock the time clock. The Genesis Digital lens did a ground-up bran-new clock that was completely disassociated with the original clock. for this reason, the digital output of the device had the potential to drift over time out of sync with the incoming signal, and so they had a large RAM buffer to server as a cushin (worked for a 74 minute CD given the timing variation of most transports). They had an optional "phase lock loop" reclocking option when watching laserdisc to keep the incoming/outgoing digital signals in sync, but this reduces the effectivness of the reclocking as a result. Most jitter-filters in consumer gear are merely "phase lock loop" because they need to keep what goes out (to the DAC or other device) ultimately in sync with what's coming in.

Even when using an outboard d/a converter, the original time-clock signal is sent along with the audio data to the receiving device, and just like any analog signal, the time-clock can be subject to reflections in the cable etc. This is how some folks can hear differences between "digital cables" even when the bit-data is 100% the same.

Remember, jitter doesn't cause bit-errors: it just introduces very slight irregularities into the analog time clock that can cause the d/a conversion process to become less accurate, even when the bit-data is 100% perfect.

Ok, back to LOTR!

p.s. I have a few Japanese CDs that sound absolutely superb... almost "analog" like. I've also been surprised that making bit-copies of my aluminum CDs to gold recordable CDs often produces better sound when I play back the recorded discs, as does copying CDs to my iPod in Lossless and playing back via the digital-output WADIA iDock (100% bit-for-bit original to the CD, but completely free from the CD's transport jitter issue).

Thanks, Greg and Dave--that's what I suspected as well (that different manufacturing processes from identical masters could result in discs with different amounts of jitter). That accounts for why the few Japanese "Blu-spec" and "SHM" CDs I've heard sound noticeably superior to their regular CD counterparts despite (supposedly) coming from the same master.

Now, as you (Dave) say, back to LOTR!

[BluLobsta]

Originally Posted by 42041

Maori I think.

ok thanks

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Russell_L

Absolutely hilarious--loved it!!!

Here's what Elijah Woods had to say about the relationship in 2003.

[hearing that Sean Astin wanted to correct rumors that his character Sam Gamgee had a homosexual love for Frodo:] "Yeah, we've never had that perspective on the relationship, but there is a real bond and a real closeness. Which was easy for Sean and I because we became so close making the film. So it's a natural thing to display and to show and I think it comes across without any real effort ... Frodo really starts to fail physically and emotionally and mentally, so Sam is there to kind of pick up the pieces and show his affection for Frodo and really almost carry him to the end. So that relationship is really important in this film, particularly. ... I think it's really refreshing and nice. I'm really close with my friends and affectionate, and I don't think that there is anything suspicious about that, necessarily. So it's good to show it and have it be an unisexual thing, definitely." [The Toronto Star, December 12, 2003]

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

I know this has probably already been discussed, but the box art shows DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1. But, I am using an Oppo BDP-83 in bitstream mode and my Integra DTC9.8 is showing DTS-HD 5.1. I am definitely not hearing anything out of the rear channels.

What's the deal? I was really looking forward to 6.1 surround sound.

Oh yeah, I don't want to have to use post processing to get a 5.1 bitstream into a 7.1 output within the receiver.

Codec is DTS-HD MA which is by definition discrete, so it is 6.1 discrete and is displayed as DTS-HD MA 6.1 on my display using a PS3 via HDMI through a 7.1 AVR (Sony STR-DG 720) to my Samsung 1080P LED LCD TV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by svenge

ckenisell: Technically it's 5.1 ES.

It is technically DTS-HD MA 6.1 as noted on the case.

See DTS definitions of DTS-HD MA and DTS ES:

http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats...o_Formats.aspx

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Grand Bob, about 15 pages into the Hobbit. This made me think of LoTR a bit - Balin. Wasn't Balin, son of Fundin Gimli's cousin? Here lies Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria. I do wonder how Bilbo felt about that.

Yes, Balin foolishly led a group of dwarves from the Lonely Mountain (of Hobbit fame) to Moria about 30 years before the events of the movies. His reign as "Lord of Moria" lasted about five years before they disturbed the Balrog while mining mithril, and were killed. I'm not exactly sure of how you would state the cousin-relationship, but Balin's grandfather Farin was Gimli's great-grandfather. Bilbo would have been saddened by his death, because Balin visited Bilbo on occasion after the events of the Hobbit.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Codec is DTS-HD MA which is by definition discrete, so it is 6.1 discrete and is displayed as DTS-HD MA 6.1 on my display using a PS3 via HDMI through a 7.1 AVR (Sony STR-DG 720) to my Samsung 1080P LED LCD TV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

Originally Posted by raygendreau

It is technically DTS-HD MA 6.1 as noted on the case.

See DTS definitions of DTS-HD MA and DTS ES:

http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats...o_Formats.aspx

It's 5.1 ES, which is a matrixed (not discrete) rear (back) surround channel. Decoded output will show as 6.1, the back channel is duplicated and then sent out as 7.1 PCM by the PS3.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

Elvish? Moria was a Dwarvish place. There were Elvish letters on the door. The passage about Oin was in the book that Gandalf found, and read aloud, in the chamber where Balin's tomb was.

Right. Oin and a group of dwarves found the passage to the west gate of Moria and apparently foolishly went outside where the Watcher in the Water killed him. Before the lake existed at that entrance, a road ran from the west gate of Moria to the Elven city of Ost-in-Edhil, where Celebrimbor made the three Elven rings. The west gate of Moria was shut by the dwarves of Durin's reign when Sauron came to get the rings and destroyed Eregion. Elrond left that area at that time and founded Rivendell.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's 5.1 ES, which is a matrixed (not discrete) rear (back) surround channel. Decoded output will show as 6.1, the back channel is duplicated and then sent out as 7.1 PCM by the PS3.

How do you reconcile your statement with the definitions shown on the DTS link in my post? DTS-HD MA is by definition discrete. The discrete (6th) back channel is dematrixed for output to the two surround back speakers. The audio from my two surround back speakers differs from the out put of my two surround speakers. This applies to all three LOTR BD's.

Also please see 5.1.4 of the DTS white paper: (Its the PDF)

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...A_enUS351US351

This shows mandatory max bit rates of 1.509 mbps for DTS-ES and 24.5 mbps for DT-HD MA.

The bit rate for FOTR averages around 4.7 on my display in the first chapter so I don't think it is DTS-ES.

Excerpt from Hollywoodnews.com April 9 interview (previously posted:

With the audio, this is interesting – what people don’t know is that Mike Brunsmann at Warner called me and said, hey, we found a discrepancy in the audio of Fellowship, and Two Towers and Return of the King. Whereas Two Towers and Return of the King were EX encoded, Fellowship was just 5.1 with no EX encoding at all. That told me something was wrong, because all three films had been originally encoded in EX. It also made me remember that back in the DVD days the audio soundtrack to Fellowship was inconsistent with the audio soundtrack for Two Towers and Return of the King on the DVDs. The group that was doing the encoding for Fellowship actually remixed the film from original stems and created a new mix, but not a Peter Jackson-approved mix. The audio track was flattened out and it was kicked up a few [decibels] compared to the other two films, and there were some consumers who wrote in and said hey – what’s with this mix? What most people don’t know is that the audio track on the DVD of the theatrical edition of Fellowship was a very different than the mix Peter and his team originally created for the film in theaters. So when I got this call from Warner Brothers, I said I can guarantee you’ve still got that dodgy, inconsistent mix that was never corrected. So I put Amy White at Warner Brothers in touch with Wingnut Films, and Wingnut had copies of the original theatrical mixes, and what we were able to do was [get] Chris Boyes and Michael Semanick, two of the guys who mixed the original films to actually go back and supervise a new near-field mix of Fellowship to bring it in line with Two Towers and Return of the King.

This is something that has never been told to the public or anything and no one’s ever known about it, but they were able to go back and fix the mix and bring it in line so that it actually replicates the theatrical experience and matches the two other films. That was a pretty cool thing that has been waiting to be addressed for a pretty long time now.


Were the studio masters referred to here 5.1??

[SketchyDee]

I can't believe I was actually considering passing on this release because of some screen shots. Just finished watching the Fellowship and I have to say it's the best it has ever looked! Sure it was a little on the soft side, but the detail and color were much better than the DVD. And the sound... totally blew me away! Can't wait to watch the rest!

[Witch King of Angmar]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Frodo's personality didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the fact that Sam and Frodo had a pseudo gay relationship and I blame Jackson completely for that.

Originally Posted by Mahatma

lol.I couldn't believe my eyes after frodo,sam,pippin and merry was together jumping in the bed after they were reunited at the end of the third.That definitly was gay.Don't think Jackson is very well with people

Yeah I wonder how these gay movies earned universal acclaim and grossed 2.9 billion worldwide.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

well, jus be grateful its no broke back...

[snowball_iv]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Grand Bob, about 15 pages into the Hobbit. This made me think of LoTR a bit - Balin. Wasn't Balin, son of Fundin Gimli's cousin? Here lies Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria. I do wonder how Bilbo felt about that.

Ya they were cousins. Fundin and Groin were brothers, Groin had Gloin and Gloin had Gimli, and Fundin had Balin.

A awesome website that i always use to look up Lord of the Rings facts and names is The Encycolpedia of Arda