Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[IndefinentBlu]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

I think Palpatine and Windu were pretty evenly matched, also their lightsaber techniques gave Windu the advantage as his all-out offensive style was more than a match for Palpatine's own. Palpatine simply held off Windu just enough to make it look like Windu was doing all the wrong things when Skywalker landed so they could kill Windu together and turn Anakin to the dark side.

Not only that but i think he also knew how much Anakin despised Mace cause he refused him a position as master remember what Mace said right before he went to confront Palpatine "IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE THAN YOU WOULD HAVE EARNED MY TRUST"he right there admitted that he does not trust him.

[JamesKurtovich]

If Mace beat Sidious that easy then why couldn't Yoda put a dent in him?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Beast

I dunno. He's no male model, but he wasn't ugly by any stretch of the imagination. I'd concur with handsome.

I think distinguished or charismatic would be better to decribe Palpatine.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

If Mace beat Sidious that easy then why couldn't Yoda put a dent in him?

Yoda technically beat Sidious, he drove him back into the Senate chamber and also overwhelmed him in the war of wills, probably would've ended the Empire that day if he hadn't slipped and fell down and then fled. Mace didn't beat Sidious easily, he was winning but Sidious picked a very convenient time to be "overpowered" and then appear helpless before Skywalker.

[IndefinentBlu]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think distinguished or charismatic would be better to decribe Palpatine.

I would say distinguished, shady, sly, manipulative.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

I would say distinguished, shady, sly, manipulative.

I think Obi-Wan knew all along that Palpatine wasn't right, notice how he always talks to Anakin about the guy, should've tried harder to drive a wedge between the two, especially since he was pretty much Anakin's closest friend after the guy left his mother.

[IndefinentBlu]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Yoda technically beat Sidious, he drove him back into the Senate chamber and also overwhelmed him in the war of wills, probably would've ended the Empire that day if he hadn't slipped and fell down and then fled. Mace didn't beat Sidious easily, he was winning but Sidious picked a very convenient time to be "overpowered" and then appear helpless before Skywalker.

Also notice that when Sidiuos and Yoda are in the senate chamber one minute they are clashing lightsabers and then when we cut back to them Sidiuos no longer has his weapon and begins starting to throw stuff at him it can be assumed that at one point Yoda disarms him.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Uxi

It's funny to see the people who think Sidious was throwing the fight versus those that think Mace actually was beating him. Regardless of the official word, a lot of people are still in both sides of that.

Those Star Wars official word magazines mean nothing to me - I don't think Lucas had any rationales for any thing that happened in those new movies. He's got his posse of Star Wars magazines/books writers to back up his nonsense, but just because it's written from those books, it doesn't mean anything. I don't think George Lucas himself knows the reasons for all the questions posted on here, because he didn't actually make those three movies. He just let his technology team make them...if someone went up to Lucas and asked him, "why did Palpatine's face change during the Windu fight?" Lucas will probably give some random answer to get that person off his back. "Leave me alone, I'm trying to make some more toys...don't ask me about those toy commercials..umm...i mean those movie prequels."

[IndefinentBlu]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

I think Obi-Wan knew all along that Palpatine wasn't right, notice how he always talks to Anakin about the guy, should've tried harder to drive a wedge between the two, especially since he was pretty much Anakin's closest friend after the guy left his mother.

You're right.

Remember in Ep 3 Obi-Wan started realizing something was not right about him he says to Anakin to search his feelings and that something is out of place telling him Palpatine has stayed in office longer than he should have.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

If Mace beat Sidious that easy then why couldn't Yoda put a dent in him?

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Yoda technically beat Sidious, he drove him back into the Senate chamber and also overwhelmed him in the war of wills, probably would've ended the Empire that day if he hadn't slipped and fell down and then fled. Mace didn't beat Sidious easily, he was winning but Sidious picked a very convenient time to be "overpowered" and then appear helpless before Skywalker.

Also things don't work so black and white like that. Look at any sport...boxing for instance...just because one boxer beats another boxer doesn't make him unbeatable. And it doesn't mean that the other boxer wouldn't win in a rematch.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Also things don't work so black and white like that. Look at any sport...boxing for instance...just because one boxer beats another boxer doesn't make him unbeatable. And it doesn't mean that the other boxer wouldn't win in a rematch.

Yep. You might have the Packers beat the crap out of the Bears, the Bears beat the crap out of the Lions, and the Lions beat the crap out of the Packers.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

Also notice that when Sidiuos and Yoda are in the senate chamber one minute they are clashing lightsabers and then when we cut back to them Sidiuos no longer has his weapon and begins starting to throw stuff at him it can be assumed that at one point Yoda disarms him.

It's just too bad that we have to assume these things rather then actually see them. There are too many things that are implied rather than seen (which would be epic if we did see them), and things that we do see that could have just been done better to create the emotion that they were going for, but somehow didn't quite capture.

Take your earlier post for example...

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

AFTER

Being taken away from his mother at an early age.
Watching his mother die right in his arms.
Having to hide his relationship with Padme.
Being asked to betray a friend (Palpatine)
Not being offered full jedi master status AFTER he single handedly killed Dooku and saving the chancellor's life.
Being betrayed by Windu and the jedi who tried to end Palpatine's life.
Believing that not only his wife BUT his children have died as a result of his anger.

THEN

Being burned alive on Mustafar by the person who he thought of as a father figure.
Being placed in that armored life support system forever trapped within it.
Being slowly turned into a cyborg year by year to replace certain organs/parts.
Not being able to survive outside of the suit.
Never being able to see the sun and breath the fresh air anymore.
Being only able to take off his mask in a hyperbarric chamber.
Living with the depression and guilt of what he has done and what he's become.
Killing innocent jedi cause he never let go of his anger and he blames them for everything that has happened to him.

AND YET

After all of this a man who has had so much anger in him so much hate can just as easily redeem himself through his son he was able to see that he did still after all the bad that has happened to him have good in him and that it took his own flesh and blood to point it out for him.

Vader never had anyone who loved/liked him in all those years being Palpatine's puppet yet all it took was the love of his son to bring him back to the good side and to redeem himself.

Now, I don't necessarily see exactly eye-to-eye with your ultimate conclusion, but that's neither here nor there for the point I am making.

Your description of the events of the saga is rather accurate, and actually makes it (especially the PT) sound pretty epic. Yet when I actually watch the PT, for the most part, that 'epicness' just doesn't quite come across anywhere near as well as it did here in your summary.

That's the problem. You're well-written summary comes across as much more epic than the actual movies, while the actual movies comes across more in a manner of a poorly expanded version of your summary being read by in a monotone voice (like that of Ben Stein).

It's not that the prequels are all bad... there are some good moments, but overall they just weren't very well executed.

[longhornsgirl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

It's not that the prequels are all bad... there are some good moments, but overall they just weren't very well executed.

I can forgive ROTS, but 75% of TPM and AOTC is just awful.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by longhornsgirl

I can forgive ROTS, but 75% of TPM and AOTC is just awful.

ROTS is my favorite too. Still when I watch it, I think, "What could have been?"

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

ROTS is my favorite too. Still when I watch it, I think, "What could have been?"

Same here. Each prequel got progressively better than the one before it for me, but that's still not saying much at the end of the day.

[Beast]

Eh. I still prefer the Phantom Menace out of all of the films. So I can't agree with that assesment.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Uxi

It's funny to see the people who think Sidious was throwing the fight versus those that think Mace actually was beating him. Regardless of the official word, a lot of people are still in both sides of that.

Such a shame we'll probably never get to see the Mace/Anakin fight which took place in the original script (when Anakin turned much earlier). It was shot AFAIK, and some remnants from that sequence are in the finished film, like Palps wielding Anakin's lightsaber.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Such a shame we'll probably never get to see the Mace/Anakin fight which took place in the original script (when Anakin turned much earlier). It was shot AFAIK, and some remnants from that sequence are in the finished film, like Palps wielding Anakin's lightsaber.

That would be an awesome deleted scene, any idea what the outcome of that particular duel was?

[longhornsgirl]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

ROTS is my favorite too. Still when I watch it, I think, "What could have been?"

If the prequels would've even been 75% as good as the OT they would a been great. Anakin wasn't likeable so I never saw a tragic fall from grace. I wanted him to basically be a Luke like character who in the end made all the wrong choices and wanted to be evil.

[Geoff D]

Forget Luke; Anakin should've been the Han Solo of the PT, simple as that. If we actually liked Anakin it would've made his fall all the more shocking.