Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Bukax42

No, he's not. I he would've respect the fans, he would give us restored and remastered original, theatrical versions in 1080p (+ special editions), with stunning set of extras worth waiting for. None of the above is in the Blu-ray edition.

Sure he does. He just won't put his artistic integrity and his personal vision second to them.
There's a difference between respecting the fans and kowtowing to every demand from them.

That's sooo sweet and touching, really, but the real reason is more simple: $.

If it was only about money, he would be releasing 3 different versions of every movie just to rake in the bucks. But guess what? He's not. Once the new version is released, he retires the old. He treats Star Wars much like classic oral tradition storytelling, where the story would undergo changes during the years of being passed down. Which I have to respect. He could easily sell an Unaltered Set, a '97 Special Edition Set, and a '04 DVD Release Set. Not to mention a set featuring whatever changes are in store for this release. Guess he's really not very greedy at all.

Are you talking about this awful CGI crap that doesn't look like Jabba at all? And about that ridiculous animation of Han Solo stepping on Jabba's tail? Oh yeah, I'm sure all the fans wanted to see something like this!

Many did want to see the Jabba scene restored. Just like now you see peope who want the other deleted scenes restore. Frankly the CGI Jabba looks great. Especially the newer '04 version. Now the '97 SE version, yeah that looks pretty awful. But the new one looks exactly like Jabba. As for the Han/Jabba's Tail thing. It was really the only option. Considering the scene was filmed before Jabba's final look was finalized.

There were money for Special Editions, for 2004 DVDs, for UOT DVD's and for 3D conversion of The Phantom Menace (and maybe rest of the movies, I hope that's not gonna happen), but there's no money for definitive, first and at the same time last, COMPLETE edition of Star Wars? Only for, let's say, half of it.

And? Those things were done with the likelyhood they would generate profit and pay off for the investment. There's no guarentee that releasing the original versions after extensive restoration would pay for itself. Especially since the negatives were already restored once, and then sliced up for the SE. So now Lucas would have to pull prints and start the process all over again. And in the end, it doesn't matter if there is money available for the process or not. In the end, Lucas doesn't feel the original cuts to be worth the time and money involved. And that's his right.

[Bukax42]

Originally Posted by Beast

There's no guarentee that releasing the original versions after extensive restoration would pay for itself

I wasn't talking about releasing UOT separately, but about The (Real) Complete Saga - UOT, Special Editions and Prequels.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

He only wants to fill a room?

He used to be able to fill arenas.

Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you?

You should do. I'm pretty big and I'm unable to crawl through small spaces....

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Releasing a $200+ set in this economy would be suicide. So that would be a foolish option.

Since releasing every cut in the boxset would increasing the number of discs, increasing the cost, and so on.

Yeah, that's pretty much backwards.

A separate UOT release would almost certainly break even (and would likely do significantly better than that) but there's no way they could fold all those additional costs into the current saga release without costing themselves more sales than they would gain.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Beast

As for the Han/Jabba's Tail thing. It was really the only option. Considering the scene was filmed before Jabba's final look was finalized.

That's just another reason the scene should've been left on the cutting room floor.

Originally Posted by Beast

In the end, Lucas doesn't feel the original cuts to be worth the time and money involved. And that's his right.

It may be his legal right, but that doesn't make it ethically right at all. What's legal and ethical are not always one and the same.

[chip75]

As much as I would love to see the restored and remastered theatrical editions, I think we'll have the altered scenes as part as the package. Which is a nice compromise. It would be cool if they finished off the SFX work on the Revenge of the Sith's deleted scenes as well.

I think it would be nice if the Han/Greedo scene was restored as well as Lucas didn't want to show his hero's in a bad light but if some people consider Darth Vader to be a hero and to redeem himself in RotJ (after murdering his way across the Galaxy) then Han shooting a bounty hunter in cold blood is small potatoes.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by chip75

Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you?

You should do. I'm pretty big and I'm unable to crawl through small spaces....

[Ryan0503]

Originally Posted by Beast

Releasing a $200+ set in this economy would be suicide. So that would be a foolish option.

Since releasing every cut in the boxset would increasing the number of discs, increasing the cost, and so on.

I agree, most consumers would not pick up a $200 blu-ray, yet Scarface is releasing a $1000 limited number collectors edition. I'd say Lucas is playing it safe, and you can't blame him for not gambling with his own money (rather we like it or not). I'll be picking up the Complete Saga, and will probably buy the two seprate trilogies down the road just for my OCD sake. But I would gladly pay $200 for an Ultimate Collection with the UOT.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

That's just another reason the scene should've been left on the cutting room floor.

I don't agree that it should be. It's a perfectly fine scene, regardless of the flaws.
If scenes were cut just because of flaws, movies would never get made.

It may be his legal right, but that doesn't make it ethically right at all. What's legal and ethical are not always one and the same.

The thing is, there's no ethical fault to his choice. As the artist and creator, they're his work and his property. Buying a movie ticket, toy, or what have you doesn't give us ownership of the film. Or even voting rights in how the property is handled.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

If scenes were cut just because of flaws, movies would never get made.

And if every line of dialogue was repeated in multiple locations they would never end.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Ryan0503

I agree, most consumers would not pick up a $200 blu-ray, yet Scarface is releasing a $1000 limited number collectors edition. I'd say Lucas is playing it safe, and you can't blame him for not gambling with his own money (rather we like it or not). I'll be picking up the Complete Saga, and will probably buy the two seprate trilogies down the road just for my OCD sake. But I would gladly pay $200 for an Ultimate Collection with the UOT.

I have a few opinions about that $1000 Scarface boxset. But to avoid being banned, I'll keep my trap shut.

[danny_boy]

Beast wrote:0

He could easily sell an Unaltered Set, a '97 Special Edition Set, and a '04 DVD Release Set. Not to mention a set featuring whatever changes are in store for this release. Guess he's really not very greedy at all.

Well said mate!

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Lucas respects the fans dude. His love of his fans and the respect for them is what got us the special editions in the first place. The fans wanted to see the Jabba scene for years, Lucas gave it to us. We wanted to see the films ONE MORE TIME in the theaters, he did that for us too (adding in some special effects to make it more to his satisfaction at the time and to avoid younger audiences calling the effects 'cheesey'). We wanted more Star Wars, he gave us three more films and a tv show. We want Star Wars to be a big deal, and he is making the blu rays a 'big deal.'

Listen, I question a lot of the changes in the films too, but we asked for it. He may be a very rich man, but he probably doesn't have the resources of a major studio to do a blu ray set like Blade Runner, LORT Extended Editions, Avatar Extended Edition and the Alien box set. These things cost a lot of money and I would LOVE to see the UOT show up on blu ray (and I def think it eventually will as its shown up in every other format since fn BETA). But right now, this is the best we are going to get.

I do question the quality of the UOT release on DVD (have said as much in the past) but I also can see it from another persepective. That set was released late in the DVD life cycle and there is a chance he thought that interest in such a thing would be small (who didn't already own Star Wars? Would people honestly double dip? Should he convert films to a anamorphic format if the sales weren't going to justify the cost?). At the time he was already considering 3D releases of the films and was probably already thinking about the eventual HD releases. So, maybe it didn't get a full effort then because he had other designs. I'd give the dude the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, he does respect the fans and I think that much is obvious. He's just not perfect is all.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Fans may have wanted to see that Jabba scene for years, but wasn't that only as a deleted scene? The fans have been clamoring for the Tosche Station scenes too, but putting those back into the movie would be terrible, since they just don't work in the movie.
I also think it's bad when you're purposefully altering an existing movie to cater to a new generation. The people who would call the original effects 'cheesy' should look at them again, since even on those terrible looking DVDs, the effects of the UOT look amazing, for the time they were released in. Lucas is erasing history when he's removing the original model effects for new shiny CG shots (well, when the SEs were released anyway).

He doesn't have the resources? I thought he paid for the prequels out of his own pocket? He can fund the 3D conversions, so I think he can fund the restoration of the originals. And even if he was poor, don't you think there are other ways? A lot of folks would fund the restoration of the Star Wars movies, since they're still extremely popular.

And DVD sales were already declining in 2006? I believe that was the time that every studio was releasing massive amounts of catalog titles. The most obscure movies would be released, in proper quality, because there was an audience for it. Surely, some of the most beloved movies of all time could have had from a proper master, and could've been made anamorphic.
No, I think Lucas did it just to prove a point. The point that apparently nobody was interested in the original versions. By making sure the quality wasn't anything good, he made sure there weren't many people who would buy them, thus proving that "nobody wants them". If he truly respects all of the Star Wars fans, he would realize that giving the fans the option to choose the version they like, is the best one.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by octagon

And if every line of dialogue was repeated in multiple locations they would never end.

Even though the dialogue is at no point exactly the same.

I guess characters arn't allowed to have similar conversations. So Leia can't find out she's Luke's Sister.

Or that Vader is Luke's Father. Since those things were covered in earlier conversations.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

And yet, the circle begins all over again, with the "bashers" and "non-bashers" railing against each other.

The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but an debater, now I am the.. err same debater which can´t be convinced nor convince the other party

[Beast]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Lucas is erasing history when he's removing the original model effects for new shiny CG shots (well, when the SEs were released anyway).

I still remember the movies as they were originally released. So I guess the timeline alteration of Lucas erasing history hasn't caught up to us yet.
He is not "Erasing History", just like he's not sending Stormtroopers out to gather up those obsolete versions to be destroyed.

A lot of folks would fund the restoration of the Star Wars movies, since they're still extremely popular.

They can offer to fund them all they want. The point is he doesn't feel they're worth bothering with.

If he truly respects all of the Star Wars fans, he would realize that giving the fans the option to choose the version they like, is the best one.

Again, he does respect the fans. He's just not going to sacrifice his vision to kowtow to them.

[Ryan0503]

Originally Posted by Beast

I have a few opinions about that $1000 Scarface boxset. But to avoid being banned, I'll keep my trap shut.

So your saying you won't be preordering that one lol

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Even though the dialogue is at no point exactly the same.

I guess characters arn't allowed to have similar conversations. So Leia can't find out she's Luke's Sister.

Or that Vader is Luke's Father. Since those things were covered in earlier conversations.

Of course they're allowed to have similar conversations. They're even allowed to have boring, repetitious conversations.

And I'm allowed to find them so.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Ryan0503

So your saying you won't be preordering that one lol

Considering my opinion of movies like Scarface and the Godfather Trilogy, not even if they paid me.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Beast

I don't agree that it should be. It's a perfectly fine scene, regardless of the flaws.
If scenes were cut just because of flaws, movies would never get made.

Your opinion I guess, but I don't like the scene and I don't think it works at all. I find it redundant, pointless, and the movie worked perfectly fine without it for 20 years. And even though the CGI model looks much better than the one from 97, it still looks awkward and out of place.

Originally Posted by Beast

The thing is, there's no ethical fault to his choice. As the artist and creator, they're his work and his property. Buying a movie ticket, toy, or what have you doesn't give us ownership of the film. Or even voting rights in how the property is handled.

Again, your opinion. I have no problem with a director or creator releasing a version of a film or whatnot that helps satisfy his needs better (even if I might personally disagree with said creators choices). And you might feel differently, but I strongly believe that once a movie is released to the public in a particular form, it should always be made available in that particular form along side whatever version the director might prefer (particularly movies as historical and influential as the original versions of the star wars trilogy). If somebody releases a movie to the public for 20 years, has everybody fall in love with it and then just takes it away and tries to bury it, it just makes said person come across as incredibly selfish. There's no reason at all that Lucas should feel so bothered by having both versions of his movies released side by side and given equal treatment.