Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Blu-man08

It actually looks like footage taken of Hayden doing a costume test or something.

It was an out-take if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by phansson

How about two different box sets. One for the "dark" side and one for the "jedi". Then you could pick a side.....

Do they do lenticular discs?

[Ernest Rister]

I don't mind the change, I just think that if they were going to do that, they should have gone the whole mile and replaced "Scarred Old Sebastian Shaw Anakin" with Hayden in old age makeup. I think it would have made the point clearer, because as it stands now, it sort of comes out of left field from many people.

It would have been easy to change, also, you only have to replace the OTS shots of helmet-less Vader. That's only a few seconds of film.

I don't know, just think if they're going to commit to changing the movie like that, they should go whole hog.

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by Rizor

I think I would have liked it better if they'd actually filmed Hayden's entire body and put him into the scene. As it is, there's a strange floating head pasted over Sebastian Shaw's body. Lucas could have told Christensen to look proud of Luke and act more golden-boyish. But Lucas doesn't direct actors and instead we have Anakin giving his creepy "Please don't look at me like that" look.

I don't think this was the way the scene was done. I'm usually pretty good at picking up edits like this while watching the films, it never occured to me that the ghost scene consisted of Shaw's body with Christensen's head, so I went back and double checked.

It's clear that Shaw has been completely (body and all) replaced. This video is especially helpful

YouTube - ‪Return of the Jedi - Alternate Anakins‬‏

Shaw's black shirt is close to being a turtleneck, Christensen's has a low V-neck. Also look at the position of their belts.

Also notice that during the video, notice how during the fade shots, Ben and Yoda continue to move smoothly, whereas when Shaw faces to Anakin (or vice versa) the position of the actor changes.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't mind the change, I just think that if they were going to do that, they should have gone the whole mile and replaced "Scarred Old Sebastian Shaw Anakin" with Hayden in old age makeup. I think it would have made the point clearer, because as it stands now, it sort of comes out of left field from many people.

It would have been easy to change, also, you only have to replace the OTS shots of helmet-less Vader. That's only a few seconds of film.

I don't know, just think if they're going to commit to changing the movie like that, they should go whole hog.

If I were Luke I would have been saying to myself hmm...who is this guy? Should have just left well enough alone.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

They could have merged Maul and Dooku's character and solved that issue though.

I think Lucas just new Maul was a pretty bad ass looking character and didn't want to have a villain that could potentially overshadow Vader so he limited his screen time and got rid of of him quickly.

He really doesn't fit with what I consider to be a Sith Lord. He's got no ambition.

He's more like Palpatine's pit bull rather than an elegant and evil Sith Lord.

Dooku is much more in keeping with Vader and The Emperor from the OT.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Beast

Weakest character in the series was Maul. Given he had no personality.

Followed closely by Boba Fett. Who I'm also glad is missing from the disc art.

One of the reasons I like Maul is because of the fight scene in Episode 1 between him and Qui Gon/Obi Wan. The music is incredible and the choreography is just as good.

How can you hate the Fett? I agree that he should have been much "tougher" as he was killed so easily. He is a huge fan favorite

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

They could have merged Maul and Dooku's character and solved that issue though.

I think Lucas just new Maul was a pretty bad ass looking character and didn't want to have a villain that could potentially overshadow Vader so he limited his screen time and got rid of of him quickly.

I don;t know about the merge thing but you are correct Maul did not have enough screen time. Lucas should have at least developed him a little more....but he was a bad a** and one of the few bright spots in the PT.

Binks ruined the first film; Dooku the second and General Grievous the 3rd....kinda like a domino effect.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by phansson

One of the reasons I like Maul is because of the fight scene in Episode 1 between him and Qui Gon/Obi Wan. The music is incredible and the choreography is just as good.

How can you hate the Fett? I agree that he should have been much "tougher" as he was killed so easily. He is a huge fan favorite

Oh the fight scene is excellent. But Maul always screamed style over substance. Nothing more or less than his look.

He showed no ambition, just was a pit bull for Sidious. Which was unfortunate, cause his character design is fantastic.
Which you can see when he's pacing like a caged animal when the shields come up between him and Qui-Gon during the duel.

I just never considered him a compelling character. So wasn't disappointed when he was killed.

Same with Boba Fett. Style over Substance. No real character. And was killed by a blind man.
Though I will say that AotC and the Clone Wars series has done a lot to flesh out Fett as a character.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by phansson

One of the reasons I like Maul is because of the fight scene in Episode 1 between him and Qui Gon/Obi Wan. The music is incredible and the choreography is just as good.

How can you hate the Fett? I agree that he should have been much "tougher" as he was killed so easily. He is a huge fan favorite

Please refer to post #16529.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by Beast

He really doesn't fit with what I consider to be a Sith Lord. He's got no ambition.

He's more like Palpatine's pit bull rather than an elegant and evil Sith Lord.

Dooku is much more in keeping with Vader and The Emperor from the OT.

Again, that's why I say to merge him with Dooku's character.

Keep the design, but put him in Dooku's role of being ambitious and being more of a true sith lord etc. Make him the one leading the droid army and pulling the strings on that side of the created war, give him more of a personality and character arc etc.

[Chordata]

In all my conversations with Darth Maul, he was extremely ambitious. He used to say to me all the time, "hey, OVN, I have ambition dude. People are always saying I don't have it, but I totally do." I believe him.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

What are you talking about? The Tusken Raiders killed his mother that he loved deeply and was propably carrying a lot of guilt for leaving her behind.

Are you suggesting slaughtering their children was an understandable response?

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

On the other hand the Tuskens all are faceless and look kind of the same. That makes it easier to see them just as "monsters".

Does that make slaughtering their children any less evil?

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

On top of that Anakin has lots of bottled up fear and is being held back by his master.

Wait. He was having trouble at work? His supervisor was tough on him?

Well no wonder he slaughtered children.

Who wouldn't slaughter children under that kind of stress.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

His held back enormous powers explode in a ball of rage as he avenges his mother. After that he is devastated by his failure as portrayed beautifully in the haunting garage scene.

After crossing that first treshold it gets easier to kill in the Clone Wars, to kill Dooku, Mace, the Younglings and the Separatist-leaders. "If you're not with me - You're my enemy." He dehumanizes his victims as he did the Tusken years ago.

It's not just a ball of rage. It's a ball of evil and/or psychopathic rage.

The problem with Anakin's 'fall from grace' isn't that it's too sudden or abrupt. The problem is it's not much of a fall at all.

The adult Ani starts out as a douchebag.

[HylianBowcaster]

It's hard for me to consider the Tusken's anything more than animals. They even say it in the movie by Cliegg Lars.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by octagon

Wait. He was having trouble at work? His supervisor was tough on him?

Well no wonder he slaughtered children.

Who wouldn't slaughter children under that kind of stress.

Ever heard of the expression going postal?

[phansson]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Please refer to post #16529.

Sorry, I didn't know we were not supposed to take the "bait".....

Personally, I like these kind of discussions. It is interesting to see how other people feel about the characters.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Again, that's why I say to merge him with Dooku's character.

Keep the design, but put him in Dooku's role of being ambitious and being more of a true sith lord etc. Make him the one leading the droid army and pulling the strings on that side of the created war, give him more of a personality and character arc etc.

Great idea, just one major flaw: There is no way anyone would believe that Hayden Christensen's Anakin would have been able to defeat Maul.

Besides, Maul oozed pure evil and it would be hard to think of anyone joining his ranks in a war and NOT think they were on the wrong side of the conflict. The Clone wars needed someone much more chrasmatic and noble, thus why Dooku or Tyranus or Sauramon (whatever you want to call him) was the better choice. Maul also served a very important role in the PT and that was to give TPM a satisfying ending. ONE of the bad guys needed to be finished off in a way that would give the audience a reason to cheer.

But I do agree with you for the most part in that the PT could have combined SEVERAL characters (Obi Wan and Qui Gon, and also Maul, Grevious and Dooku, Zam and Jango, etc, etc).

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Jay444

But I do agree with you for the most part in that the PT could have combined SEVERAL characters (Obi Wan and Qui Gon, and also Maul, Grevious and Dooku, Zam and Jango, etc, etc).

I'm with you there. Not that I have the time, but I'd love to rewrite the PT myself. There is an entire movie (TPM) that could be cut out IMO, though I really do like TPM standing on its own. I think the close friendship with Obi-Wan and Anakin, Anakin's seduction, and Anakin's hunting down and destroying all the jedi over a period of time all could've been done much better.

Minor annoyances to me, that's all. Still love the movies for what they are.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Great idea, just one major flaw: There is no way anyone would believe that Hayden Christensen's Anakin would have been able to defeat Maul.

They could just give him a lame death like he got in Phantom Menace with getting cut in half from behind etc.

Besides, Maul oozed pure evil and it would be hard to think of anyone joining his ranks in a war and NOT think they were on the wrong side of the conflict. The Clone wars needed someone much more chrasmatic and noble, thus why Dooku or Tyranus or Sauramon (whatever you want to call him) was the better choice.

Easily remedied in a number of ways. Maul's personality would be different. You could make the trade federation races more "evil" and willingly involved rather than just being morons suckered into a created war etc.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I'm with you there. Not that I have the time, but I'd love to rewrite the PT myself. There is an entire movie (TPM) that could be cut out IMO, though I really do like TPM standing on its own. I think the close friendship with Obi-Wan and Anakin, Anakin's seduction, and Anakin's hunting down and destroying all the jedi over a period of time all could've been done much better.

Agree 100% with all of that

Minor annoyances to me, that's all. Still love the movies for what they are.

But not with this. They're more major annoyances to me. I still like the PT ok, but I definitely don't love it. I'm a bit on the fence about whether to keep my Amazon preorder of the saga vs. waiting and buying it cheaper in a deal down the road, since I mainly just want the original trilogy.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I'm with you there. Not that I have the time, but I'd love to rewrite the PT myself. There is an entire movie (TPM) that could be cut out IMO, though I really do like TPM standing on its own. I think the close friendship with Obi-Wan and Anakin, Anakin's seduction, and Anakin's hunting down and destroying all the jedi over a period of time all could've been done much better.

Minor annoyances to me, that's all. Still love the movies for what they are.

Are you kidding? I woud scrap Clones and Sith and start over....TPM as farked up as it is at least stands alone by istelf so you cold jsut by pass that; well go cut that midichlorian BS out of it so that garbage never gets brought up....