Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

No, I don't buy that. When people say they want the unaltered original trilogy, they're referring to the images, the cut and the sound mix. They are not referring to the condition. The condition is a totally separate matter.

Most people don't believe that the 1977 version doesn't exist in negative form. I think there's a good possibility it doesn't exist, if Lucas cut it up at some point to create newer versions. But that doesn't mean that prints don't exist and at the very least, the Library of Congress probably has one (they definitely have a print - the question is what version it is) and I'm willing to bet that Lucas has one. So while it will never look as good as it once did, theoretically, you could re-release the 1977 version by restoring one of those prints.

Interpositives and internegatives too (which would be much better than any release print). I'm sure there's several of those to pick and choose from.

Also if the original cut negative was altered they can always go back and drop the original scenes back in, albeit losing a few frames in the process.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by 42041

It was also used in Close Encounters and I hear that looks fine

Originally Posted by Strevlac

Correct. And it doesn't just look fine, it looks excellent.

I agree. Every bit of film grain is intact, along with all of the detail that comes along with it. I really hope that the OT still retains most, if not all of it's original grain. I don't so much like grain, but I would rather not lose the detail that comes from the removal of it.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I have the same level of proof as those who claim that Lucas has secretly hidden a pristine copy of the '77 version from the public.

Lucas has an IB tech print by his own admission.

[Monolithium]

^ The internet reveals our true selves.

[42041]

Even if Lucas wishes to disown the original film, talk about a perfect bonus feature for that unused BD layer: a raw 2k scan of the IB print, with whatever disclaimers he wants to add about how shockingly bad and unrepresentative of his vision it is

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by 42041

Even if Lucas wishes to disown the original film, talk about a perfect bonus feature for that unused BD layer: a raw 2k scan of the IB print, with whatever disclaimers he wants to add about how shockingly bad and unrepresentative of his vision it is

I'd buy that in a heartbeat. I've heard IB Tech prints aren't suitable scanning sources for home video releases but I dunno why. They were good enough to project on 50-foot screens.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by 42041

Even if Lucas wishes to disown the original film, talk about a perfect bonus feature for that unused BD layer: a raw 2k scan of the IB print, with whatever disclaimers he wants to add about how shockingly bad and unrepresentative of his vision it is

I'd buy that in a heartbeat. I've heard IB Tech prints aren't suitable scanning sources for home video releases but I dunno why. They were good enough to project on 50-foot screens.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

1977 theatrical version (likely unrecoverable)

You're kidding, right? I have that on VHS.

Lol, 1080 pages. Nice one, guys.

[al cos.]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I have the same level of proof as those who claim that Lucas has secretly hidden a pristine copy of the '77 version from the public.

It's not opinion. You've seen it with your own eyes. In 1997. And you're about to see it again in 2011. It was used to create sections where the negative was too far gone.

[sean19]

Originally Posted by THGhost

You're kidding, right? I have that on VHS.

Lol, 1080 pages. Nice one, guys.

I also have them on Pal laser disc in goood old 4X3. Problem is I no longer have a PAL laser disc player.

[phatrat1982]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Adults don't b---- and whine about it on the internet.

Well to be fair Kevin Smith has made a fortune telling dick and fart jokes in his adult oriented movies...

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

More than likely, the original, 1977 theatrical release of "Star Wars" no longer exists. It had degraded like crazy by the time Lucas started writing the prequels in 1994, so he cleaned it up as best he could. This created a new print, which was altered from the original '77 version. After that, Lucas made some additional changes, which resulted in the 1997 Special Editions. Then, in 2004, Lowry Digital Images created an HD master likely based on the SE, and now in 2011, Lucas has this new version which has been confirmed by Matthew Wood as being based on the 2004 version. So, to the best of my knowledge, here's how things are at the present time...

1977 theatrical version (likely unrecoverable)
Mid-1990s cleaned version
1997 Special Edition
2004 DVD Edit
2011 Blu-Ray Edit, based on 2004 version

Now, I'm just guessing here, but I think what most people are referred to by using the term "unaltered" is the second of those five options. The problem is, they're using the wrong term. A truly unchanged release would be equal in quality to the deteriorated 1977 reels, which would almost certainly look horendous in SD, let alone HD.

You should also note that there are several "original theatrical versions." The mono, stereo, and 70mm versions all had unique differences. For example, Aunt Beru's voice is different in one of them.

I actually quite liked the 1995 THX editions. If only DVD, which was about to debut, and HDTVs were around just a little bit sooner, than we just might have had an anamorphic edition of those, instead of having to use an XBox to manually do so.

[ObiTrentKenobi]

Did i make it onto the 1080th page? whooopie!!!!

ANYWAY --------

I have multiple versions of Star Wars, from the original VHS to all the DVD releases (that have any changes to the films themselves, not just packaging).

My question is, would it be POSSIBLE for George Lucas to come over to my house, borrow my 1995 Widescreen Original Trilogy Limited Edition VHS box set from me (which is in mint condition btw), and have his posse enhance it in someway to be decently viewed on my 40" 1080 display?

Why is that so hard? If he doesn't have the original prints to do a new scan, why not just enhance my M-----F------ VHS's and stick 'em on a Bluray Disc as a Supplement?!?

George, if you're reading this... PM me for my address to come borrow my VHS tapes...

Love, ObiTrent

EDIT - No, I did not make it to the 1080th page

[phatrat1982]

No sorry it is not technically possible to upscale VHS into good quality 1080p picture. What you would get is a horrible mess and if they were going to go that route you might as well just get a good quality professional grade Super VHS deck and a top of the line CRT set from the late 90's and view those VHS tapes the best they are ever gonna look.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by ObiTrentKenobi

Did i make it onto the 1080th page? whooopie!!!!

ANYWAY --------

I have multiple versions of Star Wars, from the original VHS to all the DVD releases (that have any changes to the films themselves, not just packaging).

My question is, would it be POSSIBLE for George Lucas to come over to my house, borrow my 1995 Widescreen Original Trilogy Limited Edition VHS box set from me (which is in mint condition btw), and have his posse enhance it in someway to be decently viewed on my 40" 1080 display?

Why is that so hard? If he doesn't have the original prints to do a new scan, why not just enhance my M-----F------ VHS's and stick 'em on a Bluray Disc as a Supplement?!?

George, if you're reading this... PM me for my address to come borrow my VHS tapes...

Love, ObiTrent

EDIT - No, I did not make it to the 1080th page

Rid yourself of the VHS and come over the Dark Side, we have LaserDisc!

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

In the strictest sense, "unaltered" means exactly that...no changes whatsoever. The moment you change anything - even for preservation purposes - the film is no longer in its original state. Therefore, other films like "The Wizard of Oz" or "Gone With the Wind" do not exist in their original forms, on the Blu-Ray format.

There are moments where I don't think you know what you are talking about (or you are talking things way too literally). Remastered to current standards is not altering the films. What everyone means by altering the films is adding things to the narrative structure (i.e. deleted scenes add back into the film). Unaltered means leaving the narrative the way it was when originally released (no unicorn and leaving the voice over). Every film released on blu ray has been 'remastered in High Definition' and by no means does that mean the original product of Gone with the Wind or The Wizard of Oz' have been altered. Have they been cleaned up so that you don't get scratches, pops and hisses? Of course, the marvels of modern technology are amazing. Especially in film preservation.

Anyway, lets just end this lil discussion and move back to the blu rays. I am thinking they should have this in the bonus features:

Porkins Video Tribute - YouTube

[georgec]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Adults don't b---- and whine about it on the internet.

And childish people resort to name calling and hateful retorts in defense of Lucas when unable to cope with rational arguments.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Jay444

There are moments where I don't think you know what you are talking about (or you are talking things way too literally).

Only moments? I'm flattered.

In all seriousness though, I used a literal stance to prove a point. Many people (most of them likely purists) have ranted time and again, showing zero respect for anyone or anything, aside from what they want for themselves, all the while insulting and demeaning anyone who gets in their way. That kind of behavior is selfish, rude, irresponsible, uncivilized, self-defeating, and ultimately leads nowhere. The answer is an old one, but its still applies: if you want respect, then be respectful.

What everyone means by altering the films is adding things to the narrative structure (i.e. deleted scenes add back into the film). Unaltered means leaving the narrative the way it was when originally released.

I am very much aware of what many people mean by using the term (albeit incorrectly). However, there's a substantial difference between what most filmmakers have done with different cuts of films, and what Lucas is doing. As the creator and owner of "Star Wars", he is perfectly within his rights to do anything he wants with the films, including control over their release. Fox owns the distribution rights in terms of providing them to the public, but Lucas has the final say, whether anyone else likes it or not. Many don't think its fair or right, and all of us are entitled to our opinions...but since we didn't create the films, and we do not own them, we have no say in what's ultimately done with them. If Lucas chooses to listen to fan response, and change the films accordingly, then he can, and vice versa should he decide to do otherwise. As fans, we have one choice: accept his versions or not. It really is that simple, and circular debates aren't worth anything in the long run.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by 42041

Perhaps the most appropriate example being Alien. It's an effects film from about the same time and looks stunning, while still not being removed from its time and place, or without misguided, hubristic changes to the content of the film.

Alien, in my opinion, is the standard for a 70's restoration. Just amazing. I watched the BD for the first time recently and my jaw dropped. Maybe the original source material was in really good shape and/or someone knew exactly what they were doing.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Alien, in my opinion, is the standard for a 70's restoration. Just amazing. I watched the BD for the first time recently and my jaw dropped. Maybe the original source material was in really good shape and/or someone knew exactly what they were doing.

With a proper 4K restoration of the 97 SE elements episodes 4-6 could easily look as good.