Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[charnier]

Originally Posted by jonboy24

Can't find the bankruptcy comment. I seriously hope not!

I have all their releases. I can say everyone I have watched has been worthwhile

You can find it on a post made on 29th October in the others's section - someone's asking about Attack the Gas station and why it has not been released when Kick the Moon has; the quote is in Third Window's reply to that post.

[Yami]

The exact quote is:

"We are a tiny company that is on the verge of bankruptcy trying to continue to release films just to keep us afloat."

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by Zen_Amako

No love for Kotoko? I haven't seen it yet, but the reviews I've seen have been mostly favorable.

I really liked it. It's so effective as a horror film (unconventional as it is), and I rarely say that about horror... but this film had me in a state of suspense throughout the entire running time, it's a great example of placing the viewer in the exact chaotic state of mind of the character.

[charnier]

It needs considerably more exposure than it's getting, especially when you consider the obscure gems it puts out and the superb HD treatments of cult classics. Blu-ray.com and Twitch are doing their bit, but otherwise they hardly enjoy the same publicity that other labels get e.g. MoC, BFI and Arrow. And I have to give props to Adam (I think he's the one in charge) - he does his best to choose titles which have not already been released elsewhere; it can be a little frustrating when after waiting for a label's announcements, you find that the bloody thing has already been released on another label.

[jonboy24]

Originally Posted by charnier

It needs considerably more exposure than it's getting, especially when you consider the obscure gems it puts out and the superb HD treatments of cult classics. Blu-ray.com and Twitch are doing their bit, but otherwise they hardly enjoy the same publicity that other labels get e.g. MoC, BFI and Arrow. And I have to give props to Adam (I think he's the one in charge) - he does his best to choose titles which have not already been released elsewhere; it can be a little frustrating when after waiting for a label's announcements, you find that the bloody thing has already been released on another label.

This is really annoying because they are easily the best in the UK when it comes to releasing contemporary asian film.

Maybe this thread should become a sticky?

[BAKA]

Originally Posted by Yami

Third Window will be announcing their 2013 schedule soon and, apart from what's already announced, they "have 4 BIG releases scheduled for next year: 2 restored classics and 2 new Japanese hits".

Did they ever announce what these were? I remember reading these were on top of the existing announcements of Serpent's Path/Eyes of the Spider, Vulgaria, Woodsman & the Rain and The Foreign Duck.

Reading the past couple of pages is quite depressing. I watched Himizu recently and was blown away. Easily among my favourite films this year. I'm due a refund and when it finally materialises I think I will spend it on Third Window stuff. I assume they get kickbacks if I order from Amazon through Third Window's store?

[rewak]

The 2013 schedule should come out sometime this week via Twitch

[Yami]

Originally Posted by rewak

The 2013 schedule should come out sometime this week via Twitch

And here it is

[mattyl149]

Some great titles there, and I hope Third Window keep going, as it will be a shame if they ever decide it is not economical to continue

For all the good the BBFC do, they do make it expensive for the smaller labels to release titles, and with what it costs to license Blu-ray, it gets even more expensive

[Sinthetic]

Absolutely love them for championing Tsukamoto.

I saw Vulgaria the other night and thought it was mediocre. I'm looking forward to checking out some of the other titles, especially Woodsman.

[charnier]

Originally Posted by mattyl149

Some great titles there, and I hope Third Window keep going, as it will be a shame if they ever decide it is not economical to continue

For all the good the BBFC do, they do make it expensive for the smaller labels to release titles, and with what it costs to license Blu-ray, it gets even more expensive

That's why I think they should stick to dvd until things improve; they can always upgrade to blu later.They almost need to follow the Second Run model - no blus if the economics don't justify it.

[Yami]

Originally Posted by charnier

That's why I think they should stick to dvd until things improve; they can always upgrade to blu later.They almost need to follow the Second Run model - no blus if the economics don't justify it.

However, Second Run have a much smaller niche than Third Window. Most Second Run titles will sell well under 1000 copies and will get little to no coverage by the media. Third Window's titles are (usually) extremely popular in their country of origin, recent and a few will even get TV screenings on Film4.

I have no idea why Third Window's titles are (apparently) selling poorly, compared to companies like Eureka which seem to be doing rather well on the face of it. If I were to guess, it's perhaps because their catalog is too varied, so it doesn't inspire as much of a blind-buy-due-to-the-distributor following. Maybe spine numbers would help

[charnier]

Originally Posted by Yami

However, Second Run have a much smaller niche than Third Window. Most Second Run titles will sell well under 1000 copies and will get little to no coverage by the media. Third Window's titles are (usually) extremely popular in their country of origin, recent and a few will even get TV screenings on Film4.

I have no idea why Third Window's titles are (apparently) selling poorly, compared to companies like Eureka which seem to be doing rather well on the face of it. If I were to guess, it's perhaps because their catalog is too varied, so it doesn't inspire as much of a blind-buy-due-to-the-distributor following. Maybe spine numbers would help

Yet their strategy appears to pay off - their titles are so reasonably priced, that it virtually guarantees their loyal customers will blind buy every new title (which is the kind of loyalty Third Window needs right now). And I have to doff my cap to them for not falling into the seductive trap of blu-ray.

However, I do think Third Window made a big mistake with their online store - although very generous, they priced their blus and dvds far too low, and I suspect some people have held off pre-ordering in the hope that the store will come back up. And that's got to impact on sales. For instance, there was one guy on Facebook recently who wanted to get a recent TW blu title but wanted to get it for £10 only and indicated that he was not prepared to pay more. And I thought - does he have any clue how expensive it is to manufacture a blu ray?

As to Eureka - are they doing that well? I love what they do, but they really are not consistent with the formats - they were putting out Gate of Hell and Floating Weeds on separate dvd and blu releases, then they made them dual format. Blue Angel gets a dual format release, while Fear and Desire gets separate releases. They're clearly trying to find something that works and they have not found it yet.

[Yami]

Second Run's model works as the films it works with don't cost a lot to licence, it has a small but loyal fanbase that will buy every one of its releases and its prices are low enough to entice blind buys from other consumers. As Third Window releases modern Asian (usually Japanese) films, the titles will be quite expensive to licence but they shouldn't be selling in numbers as low as Second Run's do - films like Love Exposure and Tetsuo should sell enough to justify a Blu-Ray. Do/did they? I don't know.

I don't know how much it costs in real terms but I've read that it costs six times as much to produce a Blu than it does a DVD. Take into account that you'll also have to produce a DVD (unless you want to limit your market to only those that have a Blu-Ray player) and it's a significant difference. So, distributors should definitely make sure the cost is justifiable before they go ahead with it. Perhaps the Twilight Time model is the future?

I'm not entirely sure why Eureka keep changing their release format but if they were having trouble financially I doubt they would be releasing the volume of titles that they do.

Also, I suspect that Third Window were making just as much - if not more - than they were via Amazon with their online store. I certainly doubt it has had a big negative impact on their sales since but I'm only guessing.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by charnier

Yet their strategy appears to pay off - their titles are so reasonably priced, that it virtually guarantees their loyal customers will blind buy every new title (which is the kind of loyalty Third Window needs right now). And I have to doff my cap to them for not falling into the seductive trap of blu-ray.

From your writings, I have to wonder if you actually understand the difference between the films Second Run and Third Window release. Excluding the fact that both fall into what one would consider a niche category - one being Eastern European cinema mostly, the other Asian festival films - the licensing game is very different.

Having dealt with Polish and Czech distributors directly, I would guess that the licensing cost on the films Second Run release on DVD is substantially smaller than the one Third Window Films have to pay.

And let's be honest here, the quality of many of Second Run's releases isn't impressive even for the DVD format. They have had some good hits here and there, perhaps the Jancso films, but they have never ever come close to putting the type of effort into something that matches the Body Hammer set.

At the end of the day, drawing parallels between the two markets these companies operate in is simply pointless.

As far as the other observation about formating is concerned, I have long believed that what the BFI do is the best approach - produce dual format releases if you are a boutique label. It is an option that serves both the DVD and the Blu-ray crowd, and keeps prices at reasonable levels for producers and customers.

As far as the so called Twilight Time "model" is concerned, I am completely against it. The Shout Factory "model" is much better.

Pro-B

[aewb]

I agree

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

At the end of the day, drawing parallels between the two markets these companies operate in is simply pointless.

So don't you think this is a bit unnecessary.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

And let's be honest here, the quality of many of Second Run's releases isn't impressive even for the DVD format. They have had some good hits here and there, perhaps the Jancso films, but they have never ever come close to putting the type of effort into something that matches the Body Hammer set.

Especially as it's untrue. Some of Second Run's early discs were a bit disappointing but have you seen Our Beloved Month of August, Liverpool or Casa de Lava? It took them two years to get the latter out in a director approved version.

[pro-bassoonist]

I actually own all of the Eastern European films, but Munk's Passenger, and a few of the more recent releases.

I don't think that my statement was not justified. In fact, I would think that some of the improvements we have seen with recent releases is because there were concerns with the initial releases (some of which were discussed on other forums).

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that they bring films that will otherwise be difficult to track down, but the quality of many of their releases is far from impressive. I understand that there are limitations there because for example before Mondo Vision came around Zulawski's films were in terrible condition (The Third Part of the Night I have no doubts will look dramatically better when they release it).

In other cases, such as The Red and The White release, clearly it was not up to the DVD standards we had at the time. It was a welcome, serviceable release, but if you see what Clavis Films did in France in the very beginning with other Jancso films, you should agree that there is/was a lot of room for improvement.

As I said earlier, Third Window Films operate in a very different market, and I personally think that they are doing a terrific job.

Pro-B

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Third Window Films pick sensational titles and do incredible work. The titles they pick are fun, entertaining occasionally powerful and hold up very well in repeat viewings. I've been able to show friends and family who aren't very familiar with Asian cinema nor usually like it and they were all impressed and had a great time.

MoC release important "classics" from Asia but they're almost all incredibly dull in my opinion. They're worth watching because they are important but they're not worth owning because I'll never watch them again. I rewatch all my Third Window Films and Criterion Asian films all the time.

Third Window Film are definitely doing the best work for Asian cinema in the UK and need to be kept around. If they're only going to release some titles on dvd until there are better sales to release of them on blu-ray, they might want to stop releasing their dvd's for 11.99GBP each when their blu-ray's are either less or only a couple pounds more. Seriously, $20 for a dvd? no thanks. Before they closed their website, they were selling dvd's for 5GBP each and I bought plenty of them. That's a fair price for a dvd.

[charnier]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

From your writings, I have to wonder if you actually understand the difference between the films Second Run and Third Window release. Excluding the fact that both fall into what one would consider a niche category - one being Eastern European cinema mostly, the other Asian festival films - the licensing game is very different.

Having dealt with Polish and Czech distributors directly, I would guess that the licensing cost on the films Second Run release on DVD is substantially smaller than the one Third Window Films have to pay.

And let's be honest here, the quality of many of Second Run's releases isn't impressive even for the DVD format. They have had some good hits here and there, perhaps the Jancso films, but they have never ever come close to putting the type of effort into something that matches the Body Hammer set.

At the end of the day, drawing parallels between the two markets these companies operate in is simply pointless.

As far as the other observation about formating is concerned, I have long believed that what the BFI do is the best approach - produce dual format releases if you are a boutique label. It is an option that serves both the DVD and the Blu-ray crowd, and keeps prices at reasonable levels for producers and customers.

As far as the so called Twilight Time "model" is concerned, I am completely against it. The Shout Factory "model" is much better.

Pro-B

Well, if you feel such a comparison is wrong, then can you suggest any way in which Third Window Films can improve their fortunes? Because their current model is not working as well as it should, unfortunately.

And as for Second Run, I must concur with aewb - Our beloved month of august and the Costa releases are very good, in terms of PQ and choice of film, and that must be balanced against the poor PQ of some of their earlier releases. And I think the fact that they release films that are difficult to track down overwhelmingly outweighs some of the PQ concerns. Surely it is better to have the film even in an imperfect state rather than not at all? Surely the virtue of a first time release of Confidence outweighs the vice of the poor PQ of the first release of Mother Joan of the Angels (which Second Run did re-release with better PQ).

[logboy]

Originally Posted by charnier

However, I do think Third Window made a big mistake with their online store - although very generous, they priced their blus and dvds far too low, and I suspect some people have held off pre-ordering in the hope that the store will come back up. And that's got to impact on sales. For instance, there was one guy on Facebook recently who wanted to get a recent TW blu title but wanted to get it for £10 only and indicated that he was not prepared to pay more. And I thought - does he have any clue how expensive it is to manufacture a blu ray?

that was me. and to answer your question - yes, i understand how expensive it is to make, and how much of a risk it is for adam. can;t remember the details, but i can remember being told the estimated price to master 'love exposure' on BD; the license allowed for it but wasn't viable until, i guess, it was mastered for BD release in japan and made available to him? problem is third window set the price at £10 then said the store was suspended temporarily and has yet to put it back up. they set the precedent and judged the price - not me - and they've also said their store is going back up at some point soon-ish.

i've so much other stuff i can buy, stuff i've got that i've yet to find the chance to watch, that i can hold off any new purchases until i'm happy with the price. and who can honestly say they've never looked around for the best price on a disc? at times we don't need to, and at others we forget to, and it's even sometimes not an issue in the slightest, but although i'm particularly interested in japanese films and am also a fan of third window, i'm too old and low on money to intentionally make it no issue what so ever.