Glasses-Free 3D Discussion Televisions / Cinema / Gaming

[Sankar28]

I just can’t see glasses free tv providing an experience that glasses has the potential to do when it comes to 3d. To make some things come right out or hit you in the face stuff that some call gimmick just won’t happen with glasses free. To be honest I thought that they would have done more with the glasses if you have glasses that have some sort of image from them working together with the tv you could literally have shit that floats right around in open space. The best 3D I’ve ever seen was way back when ima. Had little 45min documentaries and you put on this huge vr type helmet that worked with the screen and man oh man was the 3D spectacular unlike anything I’ve ever seen even till this point. I’m sure by now the tech they used back then could be made much smaller. I think vr is the way to go. Just my opinion

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by revgen

A few problems I have.

1) It's LCD. The black levels simply don't compare to my OLED or my former Samsung plasma.

2) I've heard reviewers claim "no crosstalk" with other 3-D displays including the Samsung Plasma I used to own. Then they're completely surprised when they see crosstalk on their "crosstalk free" TV or Projector when they watch Comin' At Ya or Jaws 3-D. They then blame the disc as defective before other forum members inform them that there is no cross-talk on their DLP projectors. I trust forum members here on this board before I trust a reviewer.

3) He claims there is no problem with the "sweet spot". He can see 3-D from all angles. See point #2.

Overall, I'm intrigued, but I'd like to see these displays up close and personal, with my own 3-D discs. Especially my crosstalk killer, Dark Country 3-D.

Have never experienced this technology, but the problem I have starts with "motion paralax" where "objects in your field of view move with respect to each other".. I take that as a simulated 3D creation, not real or native.

Read about this kind of 3D technology when I was in high school in the late 60's. There was actually a 3D projector made / built that would display two consecutive image film frames at a time on screen, making "motion paralax" that was necessary to induce 3D simulated perception. Not what I would require for two natural perceived discrete captures for a native 3D experience.

If this can be applied with accuracy using native Blu-ray 3D sources, it will be a prayer answered.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Sankar28

I just can’t see glasses free tv providing an experience that glasses has the potential to do when it comes to 3d. To make some things come right out or hit you in the face stuff that some call gimmick just won’t happen with glasses free. To be honest I thought that they would have done more with the glasses if you have glasses that have some sort of image from them working together with the tv you could literally have shit that floats right around in open space. The best 3D I’ve ever seen was way back when ima. Had little 45min documentaries and you put on this huge vr type helmet that worked with the screen and man oh man was the 3D spectacular unlike anything I’ve ever seen even till this point. I’m sure by now the tech they used back then could be made much smaller. I think vr is the way to go. Just my opinion

I happen to agree with you about VR.

[gazadams]

I was going to post about this yesterday. But at least their is still hope

[Zivouhr]

Quote from the article:

"In fact, BOE ships 100 million panels per year, and it will open a new factory in March to make 8K panels. Even better, BOE plans to build Stream TV glasses-free 3D technology into all of its 8K panels."

That sounds good. They also mention they plan to release the 8K TVs starting in late 2018...

If the glasses free 3DTV can handle strong 3D and strong 3D pop outs at more angles than glasses 3DTVs, that would be a plus and probably required for 3D to reach a larger audience. Glasses free though, that can make a difference because any technology that requires people put something on their faces at HOME will usually have a smaller audience based on history.

EDIT:
Ultra-D website for the BOE Stream TV 3D:
http://www.ultra-d.com/

"A key feature of Ultra-D rendering is adjustability; viewers can set the amount of depth to any level that is comfortable for them just like they would change audio volume. From minimal depth to maximum pop, the choice is yours at the touch of a button." Quote from the Ultra D website.
Interesting. Hopefully it happens. The price will be a concern I bet at first, as with any new tech.

[Apostate]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Quote from the article:

"In fact, BOE ships 100 million panels per year, and it will open a new factory in March to make 8K panels. Even better, BOE plans to build Stream TV glasses-free 3D technology into all of its 8K panels."

That sounds good. They also mention they plan to release the 8K TVs starting in late 2018...

Like I've said, I wouldn't hold my breath. From December 2013:

"Beijing BOE Vision Electron Technology plans to produce the Ultra-D™ 4K 2160p line of TVs with its 55-inch panels."

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...235042161.html

Same song, different year. All talk, nothing real.

[reewinder]

I really wish they would at least promote one of the dedicated 3D forum members to a moderator status. In every other forum a thread like this or any of the 3D is dead threads would have been immediately moved to the proper area or deleted.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I agree that 3D was rushed out 8 years ago before it was ready. Studios weren't ready and the tech wasn't up to par. If they had quietly worked on it and launched it as passive only when UHD TVs hit, I think it would have done better. Active glasses killed it for many, along with active crosstalk on poorer active sets, and 720p passive didn't help. Everyone that sees 3D on LG's passive UHD sets say the same thing. It's a shame they dropped it when they were the best in the industry at 3D.

It isn't an active/passive issue, it is a crosstalk issue. Both techs have sets with way to much crosstalk and active has some with zero crosstalk (along with dlp link). For most tv's active was the way to go outside of maybe some enthusiast higher end tvs.

The point being is the first few years of 3d tv's was really rough with a lot of them not being good enough to be able to enjoy a large number of 3d films due to the crosstalk issues.

Originally Posted by AdamR

I think that is what they are talking about. They both create a double image.

I just think if it is technically correct to separate the cause we should. Otherwise we may return to Hugo getting bad 3d review scores on this site review due to a display related issue (crosstalk). Meaning stronger 3d will be penalised which is not what I think is what people should be wanting.

Originally Posted by Apostate

Like I've said, I wouldn't hold my breath. From December 2013:

"Beijing BOE Vision Electron Technology plans to produce the Ultra-D™ 4K 2160p line of TVs with its 55-inch panels."

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...235042161.html

Same song, different year. All talk, nothing real.

Tv manufacturers went with "4k"/hdr to sell tv's at present. The resolution for most is already moot which is why they felt they also had to have hdr at the same time. A higher res doesn't do much so 8k won't mean much to most. So all that is left is better hdr support (which has already been muddied quite a bit) and then the easier sell it seems to me is glasses free 3d that is of high quality. People walk into the store and they see it and it just works without them needing to put on glasses or even know it is going to be 3d. It just is all done automatically for them unless they want to actively enter a preference or take manual control and so on.

Now is the tech there yet, I doubt it, but give it a few years and it very well could be.

[kurosawa]

Well, the MODs have listened. All hail the MODS!

[Shaggy1978]

If we start saving $200 per month we might be able to buy one several years after release! $200 x 12 months x 5 years = $12,000 might get us in the door for a 24” model!

I’m glad there is still talk of 3D... it’s encouraging. I have doubts that this “new 3D” will work with our existing 3D Blu-rays though. That would make too much sense.

I’ve never much cared for which post belongs to which thread etc... the thought has never even crossed my mind. For others it seems to be very important, though. I’ve never been one for rules though. Especially rules that aren’t life and death. Probable explains a LOT about me.

This seems 3D related to me. :shrugs:

[Apostate]

Originally Posted by Shaggy1978

I have doubts that this “new 3D” will work with our existing 3D Blu-rays though. That would make too much sense.

Not only this glasses-free 3D tech works with 3D blu-rays, it's purported to convert all 2D (including TV, streaming, gaming, etc.) to 3D real-time pretty well.

Totally agree, virtual reality is the way to go and they are already becoming a reality. The sensation with the latest VR glasses is very intense

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Apostate

Not only this glasses-free 3D tech works with 3D blu-rays, it's purported to convert all 2D (including TV, streaming, gaming, etc.) to 3D real-time pretty well.

Yeah I don't believe that at all. Not one bit, they said the same thing years ago about the current 2d to 3d converters which are absolutely horrid.

[Apostate]

Say bye bye to Ultra D. Mathu Rajan was not only full of crap, he turned out to be a thief as well. What a shame.

https://www.law360.com/delaware/arti...d-tv-tech-cos-

[jacQues Imperium]

I've first hand seen glasses-free 3D in action. Both crappy ones and one actual good one. To start, the good one exists for a while now and has a clear drawback: It only works if you are perfectly straight in front of the TV. Sit one meter to the left or right and the 3D effect is gone and you'll see only the left- or right eye content. Mind you, I prefer this drawback to the passive glasses whereby I get seasick if I tilt my head too much. But in short, glasses-free 3D is not yet ready and way too expensive. Currently, it only works properly with a limited size TV and a maximum of two maybe three viewers, sitting close to each other. And for the price you can buy OLED with a decent speaker setup and receiver. Give it some time though...

As for the crappy ones. They only give a 3D feel without depth, just like the old red/green 3D glasses. Also, content must be rendered in 3D for it to work. A single frame can take a really fast computer hours to compute, and there are 24 every second. This is whilst having a true 3D basis. When the basis is 2D, you need to calculate shapes, sizes and directions from many frames (way more than two), which is even harder. So any claim of real-time 3D from 2D is both preposterous (maybe in 20 years if Moore's law keeps up) and simply never nowhere as good as real 3D. If it works at all, it is still fake-3D and there are a lot of shortcuts taken that simply cut heavily into the quality or worse, overcompensate. For me personally, I rather watch 4K HDR than crappy 3D except for animated films. With real 3D it is a different story.

Also please be aware about your health. Regular 3D works because you have two eyes and your brain works hard putting the input of both your eyes into a single 3D interpretation. With passive 3D glasses and glasses-free 3D, this effect is mimicked, but unlike in real life your focus is at one point. This provides a certain stress for your eyes. With active 3D glasses, there is an added flicker. Even though you consciously don't see it, it does make your brain work a little bit harder. Thus far it is no problem if you limit it, in order to not over-stress your eyes and brain. So I would advise against watching The hobbit extended edition trilogy in one day if it is in 3D. If you watch 3D the crappy way, this could pose a problem. I've had a headache after a relative short 3D demo, whilst I occasionally watch a whole film in 3D using active shutter glasses with no problems.

[BLMN]

This technology is just not there yet, and if they force it out by 2020 with Avatar 2 it will be 2010 all over again with half resolution, major crosstalk etc (not saying glasses free will suffer with either its just a comparison with issues back then)... it only took them 6 years to get it right but then boom 4k came and took 3D away, and now we are marching on to 8k.

[8traxrule]

There's a line of slot machines that use glasses-free 3D displays. Here's a video of one, obviously not in 3D:

Sphinx 3D Slot - LONGPLAY BATTLE - $4 Max Bet Big Wins, Bonuses, and LAUGHS! - YouTube

The background behind the game board has depth, and some of the objects protrude from the screen. There's also a big animated logo that shows while the games are in demo mode that works pretty well, with obvious out-of-screen effect. The problem is that there's still a bit of crosstalk sitting in front of it, and it's unviewable from some other positions. Some places you see a double image, others you see just one image which is at least passable. Has potential but not quite ready yet, the industry should stick with glasses until then. (I had an active 3D set for a few years and the flickering never bothered me, never even noticed it on the screen itself. I still like my passive better but active is no slouch, though the flickering seems to depend on the individual. Watch an old standard-def field-sequential 3D video if you wanna see some REAL flicker!)

[Apostate]

The whole discussion on consumer glasses-free 3D is moot at this point. The company that had the glasses-free 3D technology that was closest to being ready for the market (Ultra D 3D TV) is now in a whole kettle of mess with owners and management suing each other for embezzlement and mismanagement. Technology might be close to being ready for prime time but there is no one to bring it to the finish line - unless one of the big boys decide to step in and buy out the technology.

[Camps]

Originally Posted by Apostate

Technology might be close to being ready for prime time but there is no one to bring it to the finish line - unless one of the big boys decide to step in and buy out the technology.

Can't happen soon enough for me at this point. I just went through my latest pair of Samsung 3D TV glasses. I pay upwards of $30 per pair and they're made of such cheapjack plastic and design that the batteries are a pain to replace and the battery housing chips/breaks after a few uses. Leave it to a company whose mobile phones blow up on you!

Just had to take a moment to vent about this.

[clement88]

news from CES 2019 https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-...L0G95JmgnKQgNA