Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[sapiendut]

You may have not turned on the optimizer yet.

With an HDR disc playing, press option, go to hdr optimizer, then turn it on. Exit from there, then press HDR Setting button on the remote, and activate the HDR Setting.

[Geoff D]

Aye, it doesn't just turn on the Optimiser when you set the display type, you've got to manually turn it on during playback as well. Interstellar will look fine because it's not got >4000 nit highlights which are being clipped to shit by the TV (standard practice for Sony TVs with HDR, they clip to preserve APL rather than map down the whole thing), unlike that shot of the horseys.

[kristoffer]

Do you think we will see a new Panasonic UHD player at CES in January?

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Do you think we will see a new Panasonic UHD player at CES in January?

I've got my eyes on IFA first, hoping for perhaps some new interesting things.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Aye, it doesn't just turn on the Optimiser when you set the display type, you've got to manually turn it on during playback as well. Interstellar will look fine because it's not got >4000 nit highlights which are being clipped to shit by the TV (standard practice for Sony TVs with HDR, they clip to preserve APL rather than map down the whole thing), unlike that shot of the horseys.

The optimizer is definitely on. I flip back and forth between Off and On and the difference is barely perceptible. Reducing Dynamic Range considerably (-10 or -11) restores the clipped highlights, but APL is really dark—much darker than the DV clip.

The earlier scene with the mountaintop just a few seconds before is much the same; all the clouds blend into the sky on the HDR10 clip, but are clearly visible on the DV clip.

In scenes that are easier to process, the optimizer definitely restores some highlights that Sony clips. I guess I just expected it to do a much better job than the display on particularly challenging scenes like the horses.

Is there anyone with the S&M disc who can verify the horse clip looks correct on their setup?

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by thirdkind

The optimizer is definitely on. I flip back and forth between Off and On and the difference is barely perceptible. Reducing Dynamic Range considerably (-10 or -11) restores the clipped highlights, but APL is really dark—much darker than the DV clip.

The earlier scene with the mountaintop just a few seconds before is much the same; all the clouds blend into the sky on the HDR10 clip, but are clearly visible on the DV clip.

In scenes that are easier to process, the optimizer definitely restores some highlights that Sony clips. I guess I just expected it to do a much better job than the display on particularly challenging scenes like the horses.

Is there anyone with the S&M disc who can verify the horse clip looks correct on their setup?

Sorry if I missed it, but did you also check that you have the display setting within the Panny menus set to "OLED"?

I don't have the benchmark disc (yet), but from testing many sources on my A9G (and Z9D), I haven't seen the UB9000 clip anything really or even affect the picture in any way other than tonemap the highlights between 1000-4000 nit. It's pretty impressive flicking between ON and Off, where the difference appears to be only clipping vs no clipping, but overall same brightness.

I didn't notice any real benefit on using HDR Optimizer with the Z9D, only in extreme cases, so it made sense to keep the UB9000 with the OLED.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Sorry if I missed it, but did you also check that you have the display setting within the Panny menus set to "OLED"?

I don't have the benchmark disc (yet), but from testing many sources on my A9G (and Z9D), I haven't seen the UB9000 clip anything really or even affect the picture in any way other than tonemap the highlights between 1000-4000 nit. It's pretty impressive flicking between ON and Off, where the difference appears to be only clipping vs no clipping, but overall same brightness.

I didn't notice any real benefit on using HDR Optimizer with the Z9D, only in extreme cases, so it made sense to keep the UB9000 with the OLED.

The display type is set to OLED, yes.

My experience matches yours for the most part in most scenes, but the horse scene and mountain scene provide extreme examples where I would've thought the Optimizer had a chance to shine, but it doesn't do any better than Sony's own tone mapping. Guess I was expecting more based on all the positive feedback.

I've also posted in Stacey Spears' thread over at AVS to get his input.

[Robert Zohn]

My guess is this is because when you activate Dolby Vision and disable the HDR Optimizer you are seeing the elevated luminance that is the defect of the Dolby Vision decoding.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

My guess is this is because when you activate Dolby Vision and disable the HDR Optimizer you are seeing the elevated luminance that is the defect of the Dolby Vision decoding.

Why would DV have any effect on an HDR10 demo clip? Just to be certain, I disabled DV in setup and played the clip with the Optimizer turned on and it didn't look any different.

Comparing the two versions side by side, it's clear the way it's rendered in the DV demo is the way the scene is meant to be displayed (or at least much closer to correct).

I tend to think Sony's tone mapping on top of Panasonic's is just a bad combo.

[TJtennispro]

My understanding from Stacey is that the S & M disc doesn’t have any DV clips. They just started working on DV clips and will be in the next addition.

Originally Posted by thirdkind

Why would DV have any effect on an HDR10 demo clip? Just to be certain, I disabled DV in setup and played the clip with the Optimizer turned on and it didn't look any different.

Comparing the two versions side by side, it's clear the way it's rendered in the DV demo is the way the scene is meant to be displayed (or at least much closer to correct).

I tend to think Sony's tone mapping on top of Panasonic's is just a bad combo.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by TJtennispro

My understanding from Stacey is that the S & M disc doesn’t have any DV clips. They just started working on DV clips and will be in the next addition.

It doesn't have DV test patterns, but it has a DV version of the demo, which is what the first screenshot in my original post was from.

[sapiendut]

Under HDR Settings, which preset did you use? Natural, bright room, etc

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Under HDR Settings, which preset did you use? Natural, bright room, etc

Whatever the default is. I cycled through the different options and none looked correct.

[Geoff D]

That's weird. Where is your contrast set in HDR10? Please don't say maximum.

[thirdkind]

Contrast is at 90.

[Geoff D]

90's solid, maybe a bit high but if that's how the EOTF is tracking best then it is what it is. But even if the TV is nuking the highlights you should still be able to bring it all back with the Optimiser. Have you tried using one of the lower settings like Basic LCD (500 nits) to see if it makes any difference?

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

90's solid, maybe a bit high but if that's how the EOTF is tracking best then it is what it is. But even if the TV is nuking the highlights you should still be able to bring it all back with the Optimiser. Have you tried using one of the lower settings like Basic LCD (500 nits) to see if it makes any difference?

Just out of curiosity, where do you have your brightness set on your Sony? I have mine at 95. Is that too high?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Just out of curiosity, where do you have your brightness set on your Sony? I have mine at 95. Is that too high?

Depends on the scene select you choose, what model it is and what generation it is. Without objectively measuring how the EOTF is tracking it's hard to say what's correct.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by thirdkind

I've been comparing the UB9000 and LX500 in my system for the past week or so and I'm at a loss as to why I'm failing to get good results with the Panny's much vaunted HDR Optimizer.

The UB9000 is connected directly to my Sony A9F (audio is sent to my receiver via eARC). This first screenshot is from the DV demo clip on the S&M UHD disc:



This shot is from the HDR10 clip with HDR Optimizer enabled:



This is consistent with what I see throughout the demo. Highlights are completely blown out. I have the display type in the player set to OLED. What am I missing?

I am expecting a Spears & Munsil disc to arrive. I'll be sure to check that clip via my UB9000 on my Sony 640E. Maybe the HDR10 clip is encoded improperly? (Seems unlikely, but you never know.)

Mark

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

90's solid, maybe a bit high but if that's how the EOTF is tracking best then it is what it is. But even if the TV is nuking the highlights you should still be able to bring it all back with the Optimiser. Have you tried using one of the lower settings like Basic LCD (500 nits) to see if it makes any difference?

I tried lower nit settings and the result is the same.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Sony OLEDs, so forgive me if I'm telling you anything you already know since I don't post here often and don't know anyone all that well. Their calibration is a bit unique in that they don't have separate HDR settings; you calibrate for SDR and then the display performs the necessary math to translate those settings for HDR. Contrast out of the box is set to 90 and CalMAN determined that tracks perfectly for 2.2 gamma, so that should result in a correct EOTF curve for HDR as well. Changing it while watching an HDR source will also change it for SDR, so you're not supposed to touch it once you've done an SDR calibration. If I lower it while watching HDR sources, all it does is lower the white level without revealing any of the crushed highlights.

Toggling Optimizer on and off is weird on the A9F. Turn it on during the horse scene and you can see some of the highlights reappear (not much compared to the DV version), but then it's as if the display is actively working against the Optimizer because those details slowly fade away once Sony's dynamic tone mapping kicks in.