How would you rate Chibnall’s run on Doctor Who? 1-10?

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by ProfProlific

Warning: Spoilers

In this series run, the Doctor does not seem as compassionate as the previous Doctors.
A great example is that when Graham is grieving about Grace in the later episodes, does the Doctor, ever say, “I am sorry,” or “I know it is tough, I have lost people too.”?

And besides, if you are true fan as you say, did it ever piss you off, that Chibnall did not use the Doctor’s mortal enemies in the her first season? I mean come on! In the “Smith” era, we got to see the Daleks by episode 3!

I couldn't disagree with that more completely, and I'm actually pretty tired of the same example being brought up ad nauseam. It gets brought up every time. And that's tiresome. It has absolutely nothing to do with "lack of compassion."

Also, it's a good idea to build anticipation for the "mortal enemies" - if every new Doctor got to face them immediately every time, it would be extremely predictable and even routine.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

I couldn't disagree with that more completely, and I'm actually pretty tired of the same example being brought up ad nauseam. It gets brought up every time. And that's tiresome. It has absolutely nothing to do with "lack of compassion."

It's not the only example given at all. The most commonly cited is how she reacted to Graham's heartfelt admission of his fear of his illness returning without a shred of empathy or compassion, just a trite joke and then made the moment all about her (“I’m quite socially awkward, so I’m just going to subtly walk towards the console and look at something. And then in a minute, I’ll think of something that I should have said that might have been helpful.”)?

The trouble for many considering how many complaints that specific moment got, especially for the truly horrible and callous message it sent out that this is why you should never, ever open up about your fears even to someone you think you're close to was twofold: there was a feeling that Graham was singled out after revealing his fear and that, rather than showing an alien side to her character, it was couched in purely self-centred 'look at me' terms and played purely as a joke. It's a lighten the mood moment in the worst possible phrasing and place and there were so many better ways you could have conveyed the Doctor's newfound inability to do empathy on a personal scale (which even Hartnell at his grumpiest managed) without spelling it out in such a trite way and making the response all about her issues rather than his.

They could even have taken the scene further with an admission that as a (then merely) near-immortal being who could regenerate out of illness the Doctor could offer sympathy but never truly know that kind of fear while still conveying rather than spelling out the Doctor's awkwardness. Instead it was all about the Doctor stealing his moment to make it all about her. It literally sounded like a placeholder line scribbled in the margins where a note from the writer to come up with something better got read out because they couldn't come up with anything on the day. At worst it was Chibnall trying to make a joke out of his fear and thinking he was being clever when forv many the message was that the Doctor really didn't give a shit and you should keep that stuff bottled up rather than looking for some kind of empathy or compassion from others.

By comparison look at how Andrew Cartmel's Doctor responds to Ace's violently mixed emotions on learning

[Show spoiler]that the baby she has saved in Curse of Fenric will grow up to be the mother she hated

- the scene isn't about him, but it reveals part of him while also addressing her confusion and anger. Throughout that final season there's an element of studying another species or a scientist using a guinea-pig (albeit one he's fond of in his own way), in this case what has to be the most screwed-up companion of the classic era, to test out a cure by deliberately putting her in traumatic situations he assumes he can control. He doesn't walk away from it and steal the spotlight, which is all it feels like 13 does. If, as the Master and other villains have noted over the years that the Doctor regards humans as his/her pets (or at best his/her pet project), in that scene 13 is the kind of neglectful owner who would have the neighbours calling in the RSPCA.

[BluBonnet]

Funny how folks can read interactions in completely different ways.

[ProfProlific]

Originally Posted by Aclea

The trouble for many considering how many complaints that specific moment got, especially for the truly horrible and callous message it sent out that this is why you should never, ever open up about your fears even to someone you think you're close to was twofold: there was a feeling that Graham was singled out after revealing his fear and that, rather than showing an alien side to her character, it was couched in purely self-centred 'look at me' terms and played purely as a joke. It's a lighten the mood moment in the worst possible phrasing and place and there were so many better ways you could have conveyed the Doctor's newfound inability to do empathy on a personal scale (which even Hartnell at his grumpiest managed) without spelling it out in such a trite way and making the response all about her issues rather than his.

They could even have taken the scene further with an admission that as a (then merely) near-immortal being who could regenerate out of illness the Doctor could offer sympathy but never truly know that kind of fear while still conveying rather than spelling out the Doctor's awkwardness. Instead it was all about the Doctor stealing his moment to make it all about her. It literally sounded like a placeholder line scribbled in the margins where a note from the writer to come up with something better got read out because they couldn't come up with anything on the day. At worst it was Chibnall trying to make a joke out of his fear and thinking he was being clever when forv many the message was that the Doctor really didn't give a shit and you should keep that stuff bottled up rather than looking for some kind of empathy or compassion from others.

I do agree, actually. But remember, Hartnell’s part was originally written to be a grumpy old man, and that is how it is written. But with the new era, it is just written as, Graham misses Grace, the Doctor does not do anything about it except where do we go for our next adventure, fam!

[BluBonnet]

Everything about the newer shows is written in a way that indirectly acknowledges the way people are today. Examples like the ones you've mentioned are actually things that happen to feel very real and very personal to me and even some close friends of mine - sometimes you desperately want to say the right thing to show someone close to you that you know how they're feeling, and you get tripped up because you don't want to mess it up, so you end up saying nothing, or trying to sound upbeat about something.

So, if anything, things like that actually make me feel like I can identify more closely with the Doctor and what she's feeling. That's why I think this is an example of good writing that is relevant to how people feel and act IRL.

[Aclea]

Yep, because it's really great writing in a show that children watch to teach them they should shut up and never, ever talk about their fears because their role model (and the show has always acknowledged the need to be a role model even while addressing his flaws and recklessness) will just make a joke about it for a cheap laugh - sorry, show how weak and inarticulate her 13th incarnation is by having her just run away from it. After all, that's so much more important than offering a conversation starting moment for parents and children who might be going through that situation. And so much less compassionate or thoughtful.

As noted above (but as usual ignored):

They could even have taken the scene further with an admission that as a (then merely) near-immortal being who could regenerate out of illness the Doctor could offer sympathy but never truly know that kind of fear while still conveying rather than spelling out the Doctor's awkwardness.

They could have had the Doctor acknowledge the difficulty of talking about it while acknowledging the need, but Chibnall just went for the cheap laugh after someone had expressed their deepest fear. It's symptomatic of the lack of thought and compassion that's such a prominent feature of his run. In much the same way that weaponising the Master's race to get him sent to a concentration camp goes beyond poetic justice into highly morally questionable territory by offering a Doctor who defeats a villain by exploiting white supremacy as, by implication, a force for good. Chibnall just didn't think things through.

[BluBonnet]

Ah, that sounds lovely, at last we are acknowledging that it is a children's show (or at least one aimed largely at the young 'uns). Sounds like progress to me

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Ah, that sounds lovely, at last we are acknowledging that it is a children's show (or at least one aimed largely at the young 'uns)

Family show. It was never made by the Children's TV division but by drama, but always with an awareness of a family audience - and always with more compassion and a moral centre than Chibnall provides, either because he's too lazy or simply too callous and lacking in empathy. But then this is a guy who thinks that shooting alien arachnids is disgusting but slowly suffocating them to death is humane...