Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4K UHD (Criterion Collection)

[SpookyDollhouse]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn28

Should I get the Arrow 4K or the Criterion 4K?

I don't think I'll ever watch the actual movie on the Arrow UHD again but I'm keeping it for the extras.

[Telemachus]

Buy which ever one you want, no matter what someone here suggests someone else will swoop in to say they're wrong and vice versa. Literally just buy the one that checks the most boxes for your individual taste. I've had the Arrow set since last year and watched it at least 5x already. Go to the Criterion subreddit to ask this for the lulz

[sheri1983]

Totally agree, I like the arrow colors way more so that's what I'll get, I don't care which one is more accurate at this point. I know that I don't like the colors on the Criterion.

[fkid]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn28

Should I get the Arrow 4K or the Criterion 4K?

See this post for some details and comparison shots, but honestly, just pick the one that checks the most boxes for your own personal taste and criteria (e.g. color grade, price, features, extras). Both are great options.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn28

Should I get the Arrow 4K or the Criterion 4K?

A board member was able to find evidence that the Criterion 4K is likely the more accurate color grading based on how the movie was shot. However, some personally prefer the Arrow 4K color grading. With that information, you can review the look of each from the post above and take your pick!

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

A board member was able to find evidence that the Criterion 4K is likely the more accurate color grading based on how the movie was shot. However, some personally prefer the Arrow 4K color grading. With that information, you can review the look of each from the post above and take your pick!

The funny thing is, I wasn't even trying to find proof of anything. I was surprised to find the color gels line up with so well with that particular scene in the Criterion release.. And I agree, and said as much, go with your personal preference.

One thing I'm still wondering about. Did we ever get an answer on whether Criterion's release is from a new 4K scan, or is it using the same original one that was used for Arrow/Turbine's release too?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The funny thing is, I wasn't even trying to find proof of anything. I was surprised to find the color gels line up with so well with that particular scene in the Criterion release.. And I agree, and said as much, go with your personal preference.

One thing I'm still wondering about. Did we ever get an answer on whether Criterion's release is from a new 4K scan, or is it using the same original one that was used for Arrow/Turbine's release too?

Given Universal's collaboration with Turbine for past releases such as The Frighteners, I would be surprised if Criterion didn't base their grading on Turbine's initial work also. It sounds like Universal has a deal with them.

[MifuneFan]

When I was looking at the caps from secretplace last week, I noticed there was a horizontal line in the Arrow cap (below black bar), which wasn't visible/present in the Criterion one. The different framing doesn't seem to cover it. Would this, and the fact that it does have different framing point to it being a different scan, or were lines like that simply removed? Looking at the caps between the two, they don't really look like they're from the same scan to me, but perhaps the grading differences, and any additional cleanup could also give off that impression.

Arrow (top) / Criterion (bottom)

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

When I was looking at the caps from secretplace last week, I noticed there was a horizontal line in the Arrow cap (below black bar), which wasn't visible/present in the Criterion one. The different framing doesn't seem to cover it. Would this, and the fact that it does have different framing point to it being a different scan, or were lines like that simply removed? Looking at the caps between the two, they don't really look like they're from the same scan to me, but I'm no expert on these matters.

Arrow (top) / Criterion (bottom)

If this is exactly the same frame, the framing does cover it toggling between the two in photoshop with the hat aligned, just barely

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

If this is exactly the same frame, the framing does cover it toggling between the two in photoshop with the hat aligned, just barely

Hm, when I layered both on top of the other, and changed the opacity of the Criterion one, I could still see the line just under the Criterion bar.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Hm, when I layered both on top of the other, and changed the opacity of the Criterion one, I could still see the line just under the Criterion bar.

Your alignment is off IMO, check out my attachment. I cropped it a bit so the forum software didnt destroy the detail, but you can see this is near perfect alignment and the line is in the matting area of the criterion. your alignment has ghosting on the hat meaning its not quite aligned

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Your alignment is off IMO, check out my attachment

How are you aligning them? Are you starting from the full caps posted by secretplace?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=157

I took both 3840 x 2160 caps, and pasted one in one layer and one in another. And then simply cropped the image, so it would be the exact area in both shots. I think the reason for what you're calling ghosting is simply because the framing/AR of the two releases are different. Criterion is 2.39:1, while Arrow is 2.35:1, so I wouldn't expect things like the hat to line up exactly.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

How are you aligning them? Are you starting from the full caps posted by secretplace?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=157

I took both 3840 x 2160 caps, and pasted one in one layer and one in another. And then simply cropped the image, so it would be the exact area in both shots.

I just aligned the crops you posted, I can try the full cap now and see how it goes

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

How are you aligning them? Are you starting from the full caps posted by secretplace?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=157

I took both 3840 x 2160 caps, and pasted one in one layer and one in another. And then simply cropped the image, so it would be the exact area in both shots. I think the reason for what you're calling ghosting is simply because the framing/AR of the two releases are different. Criterion is 2.39:1, while Arrow is 2.35:1, so I wouldn't expect things like the hat to line up exactly.

I just realigned the entire images with same result - the criterion mattes off the line in the top of the arrow cap. The alignment is near perfect, no ghosting

It looks like Criterion just extended the matte further down than Arrow did as there is no difference in the information in the sides that would suggest a zoom.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I just realigned the entire images with same result - the criterion mattes off the line in the top of the arrow cap. The alignment is near perfect, no ghosting

It looks like Criterion just extended the matte further down than Arrow did as there is no difference in the information in the sides that would suggest a zoom.

Interesting. I wasn't doing any realigning with my examples, just pasting one on the other. Thanks for your explanation. I know different lines, artifacts, grain pattern, etc..could signify different scans, so that's what I was wondering about.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The funny thing is, I wasn't even trying to find proof of anything. I was surprised to find the color gels line up with so well with that particular scene in the Criterion release.. And I agree, and said as much, go with your personal preference.

One thing I'm still wondering about. Did we ever get an answer on whether Criterion's release is from a new 4K scan, or is it using the same original one that was used for Arrow/Turbine's release too?

I don’t think there’s a definitive answer but FWIW, Plaion Pictures in Germany received a brand new negative scan from Universal for their 4K version of Hard Target according to them directly. They made a new restoration and grade from scratch without using the the KL / Universal master for their UHD. Similar to Fear and Loathing, Plaion’s grading is also different to the other master and leans similarly into teal-like colors in select scenes or shots based on the caps-a-holic caps. However judging if it really is another scan is difficult due to the encoding differences already. This applies to Fear and Loathing with NexSpec vs. FiM (Arrow) / LSP (Turbine) and Hard Target with KL’s authoring house and again LSP for Plaion.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Interesting. I wasn't doing any realigning with my examples, just pasting one on the other. Thanks for your explanation. I know different lines, artifacts, grain pattern, etc..could signify different scans, so that's what I was wondering about.

When they are aligned the grain structure looks identical, same scan I'd say

Arrow looks like they boosted the contrast though, resulting in harder grain and increased chromatic aberration

[fkid]

It's certainly possible it was a new scan (although unlikely), but could also have been cleaned up, see this shot (look at left side): https://slow.pics/c/r7wKYhAn

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by fkid

It's certainly possible it was a new scan, but could also have been cleaned up, see this shot (look at left side): https://slow.pics/c/r7wKYhAn

highly unlikely a new scan IMO, the grain structure and picture geometry is like bit-for-bit identical when you align the caps.

Criterion did appear though to matte it a little tighter (covering a line in the Arrow as MifuneFan caught), regrade the color to be more accurate, and as you noticed performed additional damage cleanup in post (the scratch is still there and isnt fully removed from the criterion, just mostly removed if you look closely - the fact its there in both again points to it being the same scan). On the other hand, in post it appears Arrow boosted the contrast as the grain is rendered much harder (despite identical structure) and the chromatic aberration is exacerbated on the Arrow again likely from contrast boost.

[anand-venigalla]

I had bought the Criterion 4K of this, and may also get the Arrow of this too.

Is Criterion more “accurate” then? Even if many would prefer the Arrow color? Or is Arrow more accurate?