The doom of HD DVD is inevitable now.

[Dave]

With the third Blu-Ray player out - Philips (after Samsung and Panasonic) and 3 more waiting for soon release (SONY, Pioneer and Sharp) Toshiba`s player remains more and more single in the HD video players pool...

The HD DVD hopes for more studio support have been left futile and the situation now is 7 out of 8 support for Blu-Ray.
Blu-Ray movies are the same price or most of the time even cheaper, the rumors about the barely noticeable sharpness HD DVD offers are gone and the players price advantage is melting (Samsung is $600, PS3 wich can be used as a fine Blu-Ray player is $499 and has HDMI 1.3 and TrueHD sound).

The HD DVD early start brought them some 10-20 more movie titles, but Blu-Ray is catching up fast. Also the HD DVD "huge" (~30 000) sold players advantage is diminishing.

Even if all the HD DVD fanboys buy Toshiba players they will not help the format since HD DVD is underseling their players. This means that Toshiba is loosing money, and no company likes that to jump in too. The lower prices will not help Toshiba win the format war even if all budget orientated customers buy their player.


Many analysis say that Blu-Ray will come on top and none say that HD DVD will. Stores prefer to show off Blu-Ray players instead of junk looking Toshiba`s boxes.


I think that HD DVD have crossed the point of no return, where they are at its best and can`t improve any further so for them is only one way from here - down.
I dont see any hope for HD DVD to survive. Do you?

[Knight-Errant]

I have NEVER seen HD-DVD in with a chance.

Just look at the dreadful propaganda tactics they've resorted to. If that's not desperation and sour grapes, I don't know what is.

[blitz6speed]

Soon you'll be seeing a late night infomercial on tv with Amir trying to inform people what HD-DVD is.

[hmurchison]

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/aeonflux.html

I was really quite impressed with the HD DVD release of 'Aeon Flux,' which I gave high marks for its video transfer. However marginal the film itself may be, its cinematography and effects are nothing short of spectacular. Such over-the-top visuals are tailor-made for high-def, though this Blu-ray is a narrow step down from its HD DVD counterpart. Both are minted from the same master and presented in 2.35:1 widescreen and 1080p video, though Paramount has gone with MPEG-2 here, instead of VC-1.

lost another "head to head" battle.

http://www.docdvd.com/hddvd_reviews_14359.htm
http://www.docdvd.com/bluray_reviews_14366.htm

The picture is presented in 2.40:1 widescreen and encoded at 1080p. This Blu-ray comes in second place to its HD-DVD counterpart, but its still fantastic. Its nearly perfect and without any blemishes.

You might want to beseech the BDA for better quality before forcasting HD DVD's doom.

Dave didn't you get banned from AVS for making stuff up like this?

[GoldenRedux]

Yeah, HD DVD is done, in a hurry as well. Price advantage? What price advantage? The second-gen players - still from Toshiba alone - are coming out at the same price with less features (the A2 - minus analogue multichannel outputs) or higher prices matching or higher than the Blu-ray players (XA2 - $999). The Phillips player can be had for $898. The Samsung can now be had for under $600, and the PS3 will be starting at $499 with HDMI 1.3. Go figure.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Dave didn't you get banned from AVS for making stuff up like this?

It can't be anything worse than what the HD DVD fanboys make up on a seemingly hourly basis over there, and apparently on here as well these days.

[GoldenRedux]

Aeon Flux:

http://www.digitalaudiovideo.com/blu...iews_14367.htm

Notice this quote:

On the technical front, it is pretty much just as good as its counterpart. The picture is presented at 2.35:1 widescreen and encoded at 1080p. The detail on every aspect of the blades of grass (the evil blades of grass), is mind-blowing.

Lost what head to head?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

It can't be anything worse than what the HD DVD fanboys make up on a seemingly hourly basis over there, and apparently on here as well these days.

Hey I don't support that either. But Dave is coming pretty close to Oshodi on the annoying scale. I realize no one wants to bust his chops but I'm sure turning down the fanaticism knob just a wee bit wouldn't hurt.

The only inevitable things in life are death and taxes. In this battle which I actually happen to love, I see things carrying out for at least 2 years.

I mean BD fans are crowing about the PS3 and the tier1 BD players coming but what do the BD movie sales still suck? If you have so much faith why not support the platform by buying a couple of movies while you wait?

I've got 4 movies (HD DVD) and I'm buying another 2 today. That increases the attachrate to players even more because I don't have a player so my purchases avg into someone elses.

This is how we're going to get Lionsgate and Disney. We support our platform with dollars not messageboard posts.

[Spankey]

Like it or not, more and more people, even HD-DVD owners are inquiring about Blu-ray now that there are other manufacturers on the market. Whatever head to head battles are "lost" it almost always comes down to a matter of preference. Some people have preferred the look of Paramount's MPEG2 releases to their HD-DVD counterparts. There is hardly a disparity in PQ. HD-DVD has there own share of duds.

I really don't even want to help the HD-DVD idiots that are now looking into Blu-ray.

[Jazar]

The CES show in Januaray is going to be a huge milestone for this next gen battle. If the show goes without any major CE companies announcing HD DVD support then it will be very bad news for the format.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Hey I don't support that either. But Dave is coming pretty close to Oshodi on the annoying scale. I realize no one wants to bust his chops but I'm sure turning down the fanaticism knob just a wee bit wouldn't hurt.

The only inevitable things in life are death and taxes. In this battle which I actually happen to love, I see things carrying out for at least 2 years.

I mean BD fans are crowing about the PS3 and the tier1 BD players coming but what do the BD movie sales still suck? If you have so much faith why not support the platform by buying a couple of movies while you wait?

I've got 4 movies (HD DVD) and I'm buying another 2 today. That increases the attachrate to players even more because I don't have a player so my purchases avg into someone elses.

This is how we're going to get Lionsgate and Disney. We support our platform with dollars not messageboard posts.

Considering the one BR player that has been on the market has gotten poor reviews - perhaps unjustly - and the two new players have just now begun to get into people's hands, I think BR titles are selling at a the correct rate. I have an order in for the Panasonic player, one title on the shelf (Rattle & Hum) and another nine on order or pre-order, plus I'm going to order the John Legend BR and Legends of Jazz BR today. Is that enough for you?

Besides, you can't honestly be basing how well BR titles are selling on people who don't even have a player yet? I'm quite confident that most people are not in the habit of buying titles on a format for which they as yet have the means to play.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by sltmag

I really don't even want to help the HD-DVD idiots that are now looking into Blu-ray.

Well, that is certainly the wrong attitude. I'll be perfectly happy to show them the light, 'beyond high definition'.

[Spankey]

Peter Bracke from highdefdigest:

So, how do the Blu-ray and HD DVD stack up? Perhaps it is the mega-bitrate afforded both transfers -- and I know I might get taken to task by some in the HD DVD camp for even suggesting such a thing -- but this is one comparison that makes a pretty good case for MPEG-2. It seems clear that, with enough bits behind it, the codec isn't ready to be put out to pasture just yet (VC-1 was developed and optimized with low bitrate applications in mind, so is less space-hungry). Compression artifacts, posterization and macroblocking are just not a problem on either version. Black, color reproduction and overall detail are consistently impressive regardless of codec, and of all the dual-format releases I've yet seen, 'M:I III' is probably the best proof that Blu-ray is clearly able to deliver absolutely first-rate video quality when at its best.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I've got 4 movies (HD DVD) and I'm buying another 2 today. That increases the attachrate to players even more because I don't have a player so my purchases avg into someone elses.

Ha. Well if that would be the measure of the HD DVD attach rate, BD has it literally beaten 10 to 1 as far as it concerns me

Originally Posted by hmurchison

This is how we're going to get Lionsgate and Disney. We support our platform with dollars not messageboard posts.

Yeah, well for now Buena Vista Home Video and Lions Gate Entertainment have 0 dollars support from you, and already have 13 titles released supported by me.

So I don't see you supporting them at their High Definition venture.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by sltmag

Like it or not, more and more people, even HD-DVD owners are inquiring about Blu-ray now that there are other manufacturers on the market. Whatever head to head battles are "lost" it almost always comes down to a matter of preference. Some people have preferred the look of Paramount's MPEG2 releases to their HD-DVD counterparts. There is hardly a disparity in PQ. HD-DVD has there own share of duds.

I really don't even want to help the HD-DVD idiots that are now looking into Blu-ray.

Some people "prefer" having large items inserted into their nether regions as well. The thing we're looking for here are trends that cut across larger groups of people. Clearly they prefer to spend less than $1000 for their player. Perhaps the PS3 will provide comfort to these people and I do think many with HD DVD players are looking at this area. Oh I think the disparity in quality is evident.

Originally Posted by Jazar

The CES show in Januaray is going to be a huge milestone for this next gen battle. If the show goes without any major CE companies announcing HD DVD support then it will be very bad news for the format.

agreed. That is why I think CES 2007 will be pretty impressive for HD DVD. They will come knowing that they beat the pants off of Blu-Ray in their first year.

Regarding MI3

Yes I've never said MPEG2 looks bad. It's just not the ideal codec for 30GB discs if you want better audio and interactivity as well which the BD version of MI3 lacks.

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

So I don't see you supporting them at their High Definition venture

And I may not if they don't hop aboard the HD DVD gravy train. Though you are to be commended for your support of Blu-Ray. Clearly there are more people talking and not buying in your camp.

Just ordered The Corpse Bride and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang today.

Batman Begins
V for Vendetta
Slither in the batting circle.

[partridge]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

This is how we're going to get Lionsgate and Disney. We support our platform with dollars not messageboard posts.

You do know this is a forum primarily for blu-ray discussion, hence the name? You appear to be here for no other reason that to antagonise and troll. In other threads you argue that the HD-DVD add on makes the 360 a rival for the PS3, etc, etc.

So, why are you here? You rarely agree with anyone, so why not hang out at the AVS pro-HD-DVD brigade instead?

In the meantime, please enlighten me as to how you will win Disney over with dollars when they don't actually make movies in the format you support? What exactly will you spend those dollars on to make Disney support HD-DVD?

Oh, and you should change your signature, it's clearly a lie.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by partridge

You do know this is a forum primarily for blu-ray discussion, hence the name? You appear to be here for no other reason that to antagonise and troll. In other threads you argue that the HD-DVD add on makes the 360 a rival for the PS3, etc, etc.

So, why are you here? You rarely agree with anyone, so why not hang out at the AVS pro-HD-DVD brigade instead?

In the meantime, please enlighten me as to how you will win Disney over with dollars when they don't actually make movies in the format you support? What exactly will you spend those dollars on to make Disney support HD-DVD?

Don't you understand that HD DVD fanboys use twisted logic? There really is no point in even arguing with them. Doublespeak is the way they operate.

[hmurchison]

My such thin skin.

Sorry I have nothing against BD other than what I've said before. It's overkill for what it offers.

My issues with it center around cost.

1. The requirement to eschew legacy equipment for a totally new format means more expense for me.
2. The cost of the hardware. I shouldn't have to buy a console which is primarily aimed at gaming to be a low cost player.
3. Substandard hardware. Sony has been too kind to the hardware vendors. Everything is optional which means as cheaper players hit they will just strip down to the bear basics.

Now...if we begin to see affordable dedicated players next year with excellent performance then I could easily see myself as supporting Blu-Ray. I'm just not buying into the theory that the PS3 is going win this battle.

I know that many of you want a bully pulpit where you're these boards but I assure you that if you were on hd-dvd.com and offering dissenting opinions I would not ask you to leave nor would I admonish you. My opinions are my own but I welcome their cross examination in a civil manner. I should be able to back up my opinions with cogent arguments.

Don't be too surprised if I have a BD player next year. As the son of a lawyer i've always had to look at both sides of the coin moreso than others. I have a natural tendency to argue the other side of what the prevailing group is for balance.

[GoldenRedux]

The question is, why are you on a blu-ray forum when every post you make is anti-blu-ray HD DVD propaganda? FUD of the ilk that has already been refuted and disproved over and over I might add.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

The question is, why are you on a blu-ray forum when every post you make is anti-blu-ray HD DVD propaganda? FUD of the ilk that has already been refuted and disproved over and over I might add.

I don't get it, either. I've been wondering that for many weeks.