Transformers won best audio quality at the Hi Def Awards? - Blu-ray Forum

Brain Sturgeon · 12-05-2007, 07:56 PM

Just a couple of thoughts after reading through this thread:

I, myself, have not heard the DD+ soundtrack on the HD DVD of Transformers and I don't have any plans of doing so. That having been said, anyone who does not think a lossless track from the original master would not best a DD, DD+, or DTS track from that same master is just plain nuts. Do A-B listening yourself on any disc out there that has a lossless and lossy track, and there is just no comparison. You can pick out the lossless track as better sounding every single time. The absolute bottomless bass, definition and coherence of the bass, and the width/depth of the soundfield is just so much better with lossless tracks. A lossy soundtrack needs to cut corners to fit it into space/bandwidth constraints based upon what the codec designers felt that, psychoacoustically, they could get away with and not sound too much off from the original. But regardless, there are elements of the soundtracks that are degraded with this process, and lossy is not as good as lossless on ANY soundtrack. Period.

Transformers DD+ soundtrack may be the best there is available for a DD+ soundtrack, but it still is not as good as the master that it was derived from. This is the point many of the posters are making in questioning the logic of giving a "High Def" award to a soundtrack that does not fit into that category. This has nothing to do with the fact that it is on HD DVD only. If this track was on a BD (a la WBHE), I would be making this same argument.

As far as the argument that DD+ is better at high bitrates-- this is not true. Quoted from Roger Dressler in talking about DD+ on Universal releases on HD DVD:

"The same question can be asked for the 1.5 Mbps rate, but at least in that case there's ample room to grow for the 7.1 option, but after that, we're almost maxed out again. We thought it was cool that Universal matched our bitrate to DTS's. But that rate is not necessary to get the full benefit of DD+ for 5.1. It is indeed rapidly diminishing returns beyond 640 kbs."

DD+ is better than DD at 640 Kbps, but it is nowhere near as good as lossless. Anyone who would argue that DD+ is transparent to the original studio master should probably have their hearing checked.

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12-05-2007, 07:56 PM	#32
Brain Sturgeon Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Sep 2007 Home Theater Gallery:39	Just a couple of thoughts after reading through this thread: I, myself, have not heard the DD+ soundtrack on the HD DVD of Transformers and I don't have any plans of doing so. That having been said, anyone who does not think a lossless track from the original master would not best a DD, DD+, or DTS track from that same master is just plain nuts. Do A-B listening yourself on any disc out there that has a lossless and lossy track, and there is just no comparison. You can pick out the lossless track as better sounding every single time. The absolute bottomless bass, definition and coherence of the bass, and the width/depth of the soundfield is just so much better with lossless tracks. A lossy soundtrack needs to cut corners to fit it into space/bandwidth constraints based upon what the codec designers felt that, psychoacoustically, they could get away with and not sound too much off from the original. But regardless, there are elements of the soundtracks that are degraded with this process, and lossy is not as good as lossless on ANY soundtrack. Period. Transformers DD+ soundtrack may be the best there is available for a DD+ soundtrack, but it still is not as good as the master that it was derived from. This is the point many of the posters are making in questioning the logic of giving a "High Def" award to a soundtrack that does not fit into that category. This has nothing to do with the fact that it is on HD DVD only. If this track was on a BD (a la WBHE), I would be making this same argument. As far as the argument that DD+ is better at high bitrates-- this is not true. Quoted from Roger Dressler in talking about DD+ on Universal releases on HD DVD: "The same question can be asked for the 1.5 Mbps rate, but at least in that case there's ample room to grow for the 7.1 option, but after that, we're almost maxed out again. We thought it was cool that Universal matched our bitrate to DTS's. But that rate is not necessary to get the full benefit of DD+ for 5.1. It is indeed rapidly diminishing returns beyond 640 kbs." DD+ is better than DD at 640 Kbps, but it is nowhere near as good as lossless. Anyone who would argue that DD+ is transparent to the original studio master should probably have their hearing checked.

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