DTS-HD MA on regular DTS receiver, what's happening exactly? - Blu-ray Forum

BIslander · 12-25-2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Down Sampling??

Not that either.

Downsampling refers to a reduction in the PCM sampling rate. A 96kHz original may be downsampled for output at 48kHz, for example.

I don't know that there's actually a term to describe how Dolby and DTS handle backwards compatibilty. They each output a legacy version of the soundtrack that works with older equipment. You get good old fashioned DD 5.1 and DTS, athough at higher bitrates than you get on DVD. Those legacy encodes are not created on the fly. They are created at the same time that the lossless encoding is done.

sptrout · 12-26-2010, 01:32 PM

From DTS' web site:

"DTS-HD encoded content contains a DTS surround sound "core", plus an "extension" that delivers even higher quality. When you play a DTS-HD encoded disc through an older DTS-capable receiver, the DTS-HD extension is simply ignored and only the DTS core is decoded — but not at ordinary quality levels. Your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. Meaning? You get immediate compatibility and a boost in quality."

http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats...ter_Audio.aspx

Since day one, all DTS decoders have had the capability of decoding DTS tracks up to 1.5Mbps, which just happens to be the bitrate of the "Core." Back in the old DVD days, nearly all DTS tracks were encoded at about 1/2 of what is now called the core bitrate, but there would be a DVD once in a great while that was encoded at 1.5Mbps. I remember folks trying to find these gems like they were looking for the Holy Grail.

Anyway, any DTS capable decoder can easily handle DTS-HD MA, or at least some parts of it.

Cripesdude · 11-15-2016, 06:04 PM

Hi guys - great thread... just wanted to add one more question.

I know if you are playing DTS-HD (or the Dolby equivalent) encoded content through a receiver which can't handle it, it just uses the "core" mix, as per this:

"DTS-HD encoded content contains a DTS surround sound "core", plus an "extension" that delivers even higher quality. When you play a DTS-HD encoded disc through an older DTS-capable receiver, the DTS-HD extension is simply ignored and only the DTS core is decoded — but not at ordinary quality levels. Your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. Meaning? You get immediate compatibility and a boost in quality."

My question is where is the split happening? Does the player note the receiver and send only the core mix, or does the receiver have to do the work?

I ask this, because what does this mean for using a digital optical connection to transmit the audio? I get that digital optical can transmit older 5.1 mixes fine (a "core" mix)... but they can't handle newer "HD" ones, right? So basically, would a digital optical cable work? Would you get "core" 5.1 sound from a more advanced "HD" source via a digital optical cable, or does it need to be that the "HD" source material is transmitted via HDMI and the receiver then strips out the "core" 5.1 mix?

I want to see if I can use a receiver without "HD" codecs and only a digital optical in with newer "HD" source blurays and get 5.1 sound... but suspect that the receiver, not the player, does the work - so it'd have to be an HDMI connection...but maybe not!...

Finally, if I did use digital optical anyway and it wasn't able to deliver a "core" 5.1 mix, what would I get instead... stereo, nothing?

(PS, the receiver I have does have the appropriate speakers for 5.1, there's basically no HDMI in).

chip75 · 11-15-2016, 06:13 PM

You won't have any issues using a digital coaxial or Toshlink cables from player to receiver, you'll be able to get Dolby Digital or DTS without any issues. The only thing to be aware is that if you select LPCM as your player's output you'll only get 2.0 through to your receiver.

As to the decoding it depends on your settings, if you select the receiver to do all the work it will probably extract the compatible audio. Otherwise the player will do it.

I use both types of cables to my Yamaha receiver without any issues.

Cripesdude · 11-15-2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip75

You won't have any issues using a digital coaxial or Toshlink cables from player to receiver, you'll be able to get Dolby Digital or DTS without any issues. The only thing to be aware is that if you select LPCM as your player's output you'll only get 2.0 through to your receiver.

As to the decoding it depends on your settings, if you select the receiver to do all the work it will probably extract the compatible audio. Otherwise the player will do it.

I use both types of cables to my Yamaha receiver without any issues.

Wow! Thanks for the quick reply! So no issues with a digital optical cable then! My issue will be the player... I'll have to check the settings... it might be LPCM only (it's an old player)...

-update: It's a Samsung with PCM... and Bitstream (Re-encode DTS), and Bitstream (Audiophile)... so either Bitstream should do the 5.1 job! Yay!

chip75 · 11-15-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cripesdude

Wow! Thanks for the quick reply! So no issues with a digital optical cable then! My issue will be the player... I'll have to check the settings... it might be LPCM only (it's an old player)...

-update: It's a Samsung with PCM... and Bitstream (Re-encode DTS), and Bitstream (Audiophile)... so either Bitstream should do the 5.1 job! Yay!

You're welcome. I think my older Samsung has those options and I've never run into any problems.

11-15-2016, 06:04 PM	#3
Cripesdude Member Member since:May 2016	Hi guys - great thread... just wanted to add one more question. I know if you are playing DTS-HD (or the Dolby equivalent) encoded content through a receiver which can't handle it, it just uses the "core" mix, as per this: "DTS-HD encoded content contains a DTS surround sound "core", plus an "extension" that delivers even higher quality. When you play a DTS-HD encoded disc through an older DTS-capable receiver, the DTS-HD extension is simply ignored and only the DTS core is decoded — but not at ordinary quality levels. Your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. Meaning? You get immediate compatibility and a boost in quality." My question is where is the split happening? Does the player note the receiver and send only the core mix, or does the receiver have to do the work? I ask this, because what does this mean for using a digital optical connection to transmit the audio? I get that digital optical can transmit older 5.1 mixes fine (a "core" mix)... but they can't handle newer "HD" ones, right? So basically, would a digital optical cable work? Would you get "core" 5.1 sound from a more advanced "HD" source via a digital optical cable, or does it need to be that the "HD" source material is transmitted via HDMI and the receiver then strips out the "core" 5.1 mix? I want to see if I can use a receiver without "HD" codecs and only a digital optical in with newer "HD" source blurays and get 5.1 sound... but suspect that the receiver, not the player, does the work - so it'd have to be an HDMI connection...but maybe not!... Finally, if I did use digital optical anyway and it wasn't able to deliver a "core" 5.1 mix, what would I get instead... stereo, nothing? (PS, the receiver I have does have the appropriate speakers for 5.1, there's basically no HDMI in). Last edited by Cripesdude; 11-15-2016 at 06:11 PM.

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12-26-2010, 01:32 PM	#2
sptrout Active Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Spring, TX	From DTS' web site: "DTS-HD encoded content contains a DTS surround sound "core", plus an "extension" that delivers even higher quality. When you play a DTS-HD encoded disc through an older DTS-capable receiver, the DTS-HD extension is simply ignored and only the DTS core is decoded — but not at ordinary quality levels. Your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. Meaning? You get immediate compatibility and a boost in quality." http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats...ter_Audio.aspx Since day one, all DTS decoders have had the capability of decoding DTS tracks up to 1.5Mbps, which just happens to be the bitrate of the "Core." Back in the old DVD days, nearly all DTS tracks were encoded at about 1/2 of what is now called the core bitrate, but there would be a DVD once in a great while that was encoded at 1.5Mbps. I remember folks trying to find these gems like they were looking for the Holy Grail. Anyway, any DTS capable decoder can easily handle DTS-HD MA, or at least some parts of it.

11-15-2016, 06:13 PM	#4
chip75 Blu-ray Grand Duke Top contributor Member since:Oct 2010 Location:Wales 4K collection:304 Blu-ray collection:3102 DVD collection:1783 iTunes collection:233 Trading Score:9	You won't have any issues using a digital coaxial or Toshlink cables from player to receiver, you'll be able to get Dolby Digital or DTS without any issues. The only thing to be aware is that if you select LPCM as your player's output you'll only get 2.0 through to your receiver. As to the decoding it depends on your settings, if you select the receiver to do all the work it will probably extract the compatible audio. Otherwise the player will do it. I use both types of cables to my Yamaha receiver without any issues.

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