Archived: Insiders Thread

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Is SPHE seeing this as a supplement to UMD, or are you hoping for it to eventually replace UMD for movie distribution?

I see it as being potentially a HUGE win for BD, since the PSP buyer gets a cheaper movie disc, and effectively a free HD movie. It's staggering how huge this idea could be if it is applied to several portable music devices (e.g. iPod).

This very idea (and MS wanting to exploit it for Zune) is probably the main reason Amir is so hot for TL51.

Gary

The main idea is to add value to the Blu-ray disc. It is not designed to be a replacement for UMD.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

The main idea is to add value to the Blu-ray disc. It is not designed to be a replacement for UMD.

Cool.

From the "other place" :

Originally Posted by paidgeek

We are favoring AVC encoding for a large percentage of titles. It could just be coincidence, but lately we have had several masters in production that have benefited from using AVC based on tests. Rocky Balboa was a particularly difficult title and you will understand why when you view it. No tutorial on film grain will be required for that one...

Have you mentioned the speed of the AVC encoder yet? Amir is claiming VC-1 is down to 3x real-time. Would I be accurate if I stated that the VC-1 encoder is 3x? (I know you have to be careful).

The main reason I ask is that Sony intends to be very aggressive with releases (~100 titles this year) but that can be affected by the encoding issues. Are you confident that 100 titles can be released this year if a large percentage are AVC?

Gary

[Iceman_II]

3x, 4x, 5x real time... I really can't see where this number would be more than noise in the release schedule equation.

Being able to encode a two hour movie in 6, 8, or 10 hours? so what?

I know your next argument will be that they need shorter times to master more movies... not so much, if the encoding times are too long, you run parallel teams concurrently running more titles.

I would think that the long pole in the tent isn't the actual encoding time, or the time needed to optimize the encoding process, or even the time it takes to master... I would think the real constraint would be the time for production.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Iceman_II

3x, 4x, 5x real time... I really can't see where this number would be more than noise in the release schedule equation.

Being able to encode a two hour movie in 6, 8, or 10 hours? so what?

I know your next argument will be that they need shorter times to master more movies... not so much, if the encoding times are too long, you run parallel teams concurrently running more titles.

People == cost. Salaries + space + desks + computers + HR resources (etc.)

If they don't care about cost, then you're right they can throw resources at the problem. But, I expect like any sensible business they do care about controlling the costs.

An encoding generally consists of three phases:

(1) Statistics gathering - Figure out the tough parts
(2) Base encoding - An automatic encoding of the movie to general settings derived from (1)
(3) Segment re-encoding - The problem bits are worked on until they are right

Each of those will be affected by the speed of the tools involved, and how mature they are. For example, if the automated part can handle more of the tricky bits then there is less segment re-encoding needed.

The MPEG-2 workflow is so tuned now that a great title can (and has) popped out of Sony in as little as two days of encoding work.

Gary

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Iceman_II

3x, 4x, 5x real time... I really can't see where this number would be more than noise in the release schedule equation.

Being able to encode a two hour movie in 6, 8, or 10 hours? so what?

I know your next argument will be that they need shorter times to master more movies... not so much, if the encoding times are too long, you run parallel teams concurrently running more titles.

I would think that the long pole in the tent isn't the actual encoding time, or the time needed to optimize the encoding process, or even the time it takes to master... I would think the real constraint would be the time for production.

The time required to get good encoding results does matter. Software based encoders are more difficult to deal with when extensive customization is required. We are currently getting down to about 7x realtime for one encode pass with our latest computers. It's not bad, but less time would, of course, be better.

[dialog_gvf]

I imagine you also have to fight the frustration factor, where (for example) a tough 15 second segment takes several minutes to encode each attempt, and perhaps gets abandoned prematurely because the compressionist simply gets sick of dealing with it or is butting heads with a deadline.

Gary

[Damon Payne]

I have a question, sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't see it.
Regarding Warner saving some major releases for PIP capability in BD-J authoring tools:

1) iHD handles this by requiring a 2nd hardware video decoder in the player. Can BD-J handle this in a non-fake way (Crank) ?
2) If so, do you know anything about availability?

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I imagine you also have to fight the frustration factor, where (for example) a tough 15 second segment takes several minutes to encode each attempt, and perhaps gets abandoned prematurely because the compressionist simply gets sick of dealing with it or is butting heads with a deadline.

Gary

If an encoder is just not working on a difficult scene, we will either try a different codec, or we will ask for more disc capacity to allow higher bit rates. We have enough options now that we rarely if ever have to outright give up...

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Damon Payne

I have a question, sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't see it.
Regarding Warner saving some major releases for PIP capability in BD-J authoring tools:

1) iHD handles this by requiring a 2nd hardware video decoder in the player. Can BD-J handle this in a non-fake way (Crank) ?
2) If so, do you know anything about availability?

PiP is not actually a BD-J issue, but rather a dual decoder issue. I expect the first players to support this function to be software based and out sometime in the summer.

[Chris Beveridge]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

PiP is not actually a BD-J issue, but rather a dual decoder issue. I expect the first players to support this function to be software based and out sometime in the summer.

Is this an area where it can be tested against by those authoring the discs? i.e. can it be created and placed on a new release but simply not functional until player(s) arrive the can handle it? Or is it a situation where the feature cannot be properly tested so it's being held off on or certain releases are being delayed until then.

I recall during the DVD days that there were features on discs that didn't play on all players (DTS being a big one) but the core features of the disc - video/audio for the movie - would play. So the disc could be released and then have some replay value in the future.

[Talkstr8t]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

Is this an area where it can be tested against by those authoring the discs? i.e. can it be created and placed on a new release but simply not functional until player(s) arrive the can handle it? Or is it a situation where the feature cannot be properly tested so it's being held off on or certain releases are being delayed until then.

While the use of secondary video for PiP can certainly be authored now, it would be risky to release something without being able to test it on a couple of different players which support secondary video. Therefore I don't think you'll see title released making use of this until fairly close to the time that players supporting it (or firmware updates for existing players capable of supporting it) are released.

- Talk

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

PiP is not actually a BD-J issue, but rather a dual decoder issue. I expect the first players to support this function to be software based and out sometime in the summer.

The PS/3 could/should be able to handle it now, right?

I think it is a testament to the BDA that they don't let the PS/3 overly dominate the situation. It would be too easy to author for it and only it, and ignore the long term.

Gary

[Talkstr8t]

The PS-3 should be able to support it based on what we know about the H/W capabilities, but until/unless Sony releases a firmware update to enable secondary video support it doesn't help the studios...

[blitz6speed]

Paidgeek

I picked up a ton of titles from Frys this weekend thanks to the Buy 1 Get 1 Free offer. I went back this morning to get more, but hardly anything was left at the Anaheim store, and not just the sale items, the place was RANSACKED through and hardly any titles left! Shows to me that Sony is working the system to its advantage, great job. I am curious to see if any other studio might do a deal like this anytime soon, such as Fox or Disney? Either way, tell the marketing team they are kicking butt.

[dobyblue]

Paidgeek - I see Sony just announced Stephen King's Secret Window with Johnny Depp.
Any idea of the codecs to be used on this one?

[blitz6speed]

Paidgeek

Any chance the PS3 team will allow NTFS external hard drives to finally work on the ps3? FAT32 sucks with its 4 gig limit.

[WriteSimply]

When players/receivers with advanced audio codec decoding are out, what will SPE do with regards to audio? Still do PCM or try out TrueHD/HDMA?


fuad

[dobyblue]

paidgeek, can you shed any light on Fox Pathe Europa's decision to release on HD DVD jsut as Studio Canal announces neutrality as well?
Does this mean all Fox produced movies will be on HD DVD in Europe?

[Josh]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

paidgeek, can you shed any light on Fox Pathe Europa's decision to release on HD DVD jsut as Studio Canal announces neutrality as well?
Does this mean all Fox produced movies will be on HD DVD in Europe?

Fox Pathe Europa is not Fox. Here is a list of titles they can release (a handful of BD exclusives)

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0077949/

[dobyblue]

Can you explain how they are the studio distributing Ice Age 2, Fantastic Four, etc.. and why they will not be able to release these on HD DVD?