Crave: "Five reasons you shouldn't buy a Blu-ray player yet"

[Terjyn]

I don't know why this article has some people so riled up.

Even if he didn't use the word obsolete correctly, and what he posted is true of everything, the gist of what he says is true.

Whether what he says is enough to hold off or not I disagree with, I think it's past the time to feel confident enough to buy...but there's nothing wrong with this article.

It's not like his 5 reasons boiled down to HD-DVD might make a comeback or something.

[smd5158]

After reading it reminds me of how much I freaking love my PS3. And screw those people that STILL don't think people with PS3 use it for blu-ray. That's pretty much all I use it for. However, the fact that it has so many other options and that it is at least on some level "futureproof" just makes it one fine piece of machinery.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

That's a very good point. It's unfortunate that BD had to devote so much time, effort, and money into fighting a useless format war instead of perfecting their product. And the comment about imagining the "older" generation downloading and installing firmware updates...yeah, that's not gonna happen (my 60ish parents have no idea what firmware is). So there are some definite kinks that need to be worked out (obviously this was an issue with HD DVD also). But hopefully when things totally settle down, Blu-ray can get down to business and the HDM market can really take off!

What some people have forgotten is that firmware updates is mainly a manufacturer issue and not a Blu-ray issue. My PS3 has done quite well without me having to burning a CD with firmware updates on it. Is it not a Blu-ray player?

[Luis_A51]

The "Caveat" parts of each article are the only ones to pay attention to. The "points" themselves are pretty weak and are blatantly anti BD but then they get away with saying them by adding the caveats.

And at the very end they disagree with the basis of the entire article by promoting the PS3. They should have used a different title, like "reasons not to get a standalone BD player" or "reasons why the ps3 is the only logical bluray player".

Also I agree that, while catalogue selection is limited right now, most people only give a damn about new releases. The movie selection argument is such a thinly veiled attack.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

Well, I posted this on High Def Digest, and I've got to say people were much nicer over there then here. I figured this was more of a pro Blu-ray article than anything, but apparently not. This forum is accused of blind fanboyism, and I was hoping that wasn't true. Even though I'm 100% pro Blu, I don't know if I'll be posting much here if this is the reaction people get for posting anything that hints that Blu-ray has some work to do.

I don't think it's about "blind" anything. You can't say that Sonar5's arguments are not valid. Sure he wrote it in an emotional way, but that does not erase the fact that everyone of his points are rooted in truth (except maybe #5).

There is a huge difference between being emotional with facts and "blind fanboyism".

[esteban2]

Originally Posted by Lee Christie

I agree with each point made by the article... but do not agree with the conclusion that you shouldn't buy a Blu-ray player yet. I'd say buy, but be aware of what the issues are and made good choices.

Amen. I'd add that the only player i'd recommend is the PS3.

[mightypen]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

What some people have forgotten is that firmware updates is mainly a manufacturer issue and not a Blu-ray issue. My PS3 has done quite well without me having to burning a CD with firmware updates on it. Is it not a Blu-ray player?

Well, its obviously a combo of blu-ray players not doing their job and movies coming out with something that conflicts. Personally, I hold the manufacturers of the disks more responsible for conflicts at this point, as there are only a handful of machines in the wild to test for issues. I think that's expecting too much of the manufacturers to release updates constantly for machines that are rapidly aging (and only rapidly aging due to things like this)

And although it is a machine problem in that other machines won't conflict in the same way or at all, at the end of the day it doesn't mean much, as the mainstream adoption we crave is dominated by purchasers of what's on sale and not by reviews.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

What some people have forgotten is that firmware updates is mainly a manufacturer issue and not a Blu-ray issue. My PS3 has done quite well without me having to burning a CD with firmware updates on it. Is it not a Blu-ray player?

But do you keep your PS3 hooked to the internet and get the system updates for it? If you do, then that's the same thing. The PS3 gets 'system updates' and not 'firmware upgrades' if we want to argue the semantics of the terminology, but it's essentially the same thing, and it's a pain for people who don't want to keep their systems hooked to the internet.

I know a buddy of mine has a PS3 and had previously never hooked it to the internet for any updates. Then when Fox came out with the BD+ discs, and he bought one and put it in the system it wouldn't play. Then he hooked the system to the internet for the first time, downloaded the update, and that took care of it.

I finally got a PS3 just before Christmas because I was so sick of the slowness of Samsung's updates with the 1200 player. I just went and hooked it to the internet right away to update it (the PS3).

Regardless of whether it's burning a disc or hooking the system straight to the internet, it's something that the average joe isn't going to want to deal with.

I will say that PS3 seems to have less less frequent of needs for updates just to get movies to play than some other players out there, but it can still be a pain none the less.

Like it or not, this is the sort of thing that will detour regular people from jumping on board with Blu-Ray if the format doesn't get to a point where these updates are no longer required. I hope we get to that point, because I want the format to flourish.

[Doc_Stew]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Like it or not, this is the sort of thing that will detour regular people from jumping on board with Blu-Ray if the format doesn't get to a point where these updates are no longer required. I hope we get to that point, because I want the format to flourish.

Well said. Both sides have been plagued with frequent, long updates. Maybe it's because the technology is new, and they're working out the kinks. But think about it like this - what if they had to do that when they originally released DVD players and the internet was far less mainstream that it is now? It would have suffered from slow adoption as well. Sure, prices were outrageous when they were first introduced, but of the half dozen players I've owned over the years, not ONCE have I had to update it to watch a movie (or special features, etc.)

I love BD also and want it to flourish. But with articles like this on the homepage of a very popular website, news travels fast and this could hurt BDs mass adoption. That's not to say it's totally true, but J6P might not know the difference. I hope BDs issues don't hurt its market acceptance, but they need to get the kinks worked out fast.

[Smallville206]

I haven't watch all of my nearly 140 Blu rays yet, but so far I have never had a playback issue on my PS3.

[bryaaaant]

I agree with the OP, I think it's a fairly written neutral piece. I am amazed, however, by how some members of this forum acted. Pure blind fanboyism at its finest.

[Anthony P]

Who exactly is that article biased in favor of? Certainly not HD-DVD which gets slammed as well.

Yes, it is just a coincidence that he loved the A1 and recommended it in 2006 over BD and has disparaged BD or praised HD DVD on any of his blogs on the subject. Basically always saying buy HD DVD or nothing (and since HD DVD=nothing now, just nothing)

Its an article written for the masses, not people on fora like this one.

You really have to be clueless if you think firmware issues like the sammy's have had are not a barrier to adoption. People want their machine to work right out of the box with all movies, and the notion that that is not the status quo is not good. 3rd generation of blu-ray is here, and things are getting better, but unfortunately until it gets resolved, I can't in good conscience recommend blu ray to my tech-wary friends (who have the disposable income for it)

so all these masses that have no way of applying a simple FW upgrade all have fully wired homes and can configure the equipment so they can connect the player in the LR to the internet. So much soi that just offering 1.0 or 1.1 players is enough reason for them not to buy BD.

This isn't all black/white or blue/red. Not everything is perfect or evil, there is middle ground and room, much room for improvement.

agree. Now can you and he explain why you have such an irrational hatred of anything BD? why HD DVD was good enough but now that it is gone people should not buy BD?

[Anthony P]

Well said. Both sides have been plagued with frequent, long updates. Maybe it's because the technology is new, and they're working out the kinks. But think about it like this - what if they had to do that when they originally released DVD players and the internet was far less mainstream that it is now?

there where no FW but DVD was just as plagued, the difference was that your player became obsolete. Many of the first players could not play DL disks when they came out several months later. Others could play them but there was a major issues on the brake (movie stuttering and freezing).

With web features and fancy "menus" upgrades are a thing you should get used to (be it BD, HD DVD or something else like DL)

I love BD also and want it to flourish. But with articles like this on the homepage of a very popular website, news travels fast and this could hurt BDs mass adoption. That's not to say it's totally true, but J6P might not know the difference. I hope BDs issues don't hurt its market acceptance, but they need to get the kinks worked out fast.

why do you think they are there? it is precisely to drive people away. It is knowsn as FUD read all about it. It is spread by people with a bias against something (like this author) These are not issues with BD, they are garbage created by the authors to slow down BD adoption.

[Anthony P]

Like it or not, this is the sort of thing that will detour regular people from jumping on board with Blu-Ray if the format doesn't get to a point where these updates are no longer required. I hope we get to that point, because I want the format to flourish.

But what ever format that will unfortunately never be true. The issue is not the players but what you want. The minute you say HDi or BD-J (the fox title you mentioned was not a BD+ issue) you are talking a multi functional device, just like any PC. And just like any PC (or PC equipment) you will need updates for ever, because simply put the guy that created the device a few months ago (or years ago) cannot know what the content creator will want in a few days, weeks, months or years. It has nothing to do with BD, it is asking a device to evolve with the demand.

[mightypen]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

so all these masses that have no way of applying a simple FW upgrade all have fully wired homes and can configure the equipment so they can connect the player in the LR to the internet. So much soi that just offering 1.0 or 1.1 players is enough reason for them not to buy BD.

You have more faith in the average consumer than I.

I know that "study" about an alarmingly high percentage of hi-def tv purchasers not actually viewing hi-def due to improper cabling is flawed, but it should give an indication that regular non techie folks are not going to be able to burn cds or go through whatever procedure is required to update. Maybe in a year if 2.0 players automatically update when connected to the internet, but that presupposes that these people are going to have a router and be able to use it, things will have changed.

These things need to play every movie out of the box or be idiot proof-rare firmware updates. Otherwise, movies are not going to work, and players are going to get bricked.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

why do you think they are there? it is precisely to drive people away. It is knowsn as FUD read all about it. It is spread by people with a bias against something (like this author) These are not issues with BD, they are garbage created by the authors to slow down BD adoption.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=35519

That is fud?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree. Now can you and he explain why you have such an irrational hatred of anything BD? why HD DVD was good enough but now that it is gone people should not buy BD?

Apparently I am self-loathing, as I've spent way, way more on blu than red and choose blu for any dual release.

[Anthony P]

You have more faith in the average consumer than I.

I know that "study" about an alarmingly high percentage of hi-def tv purchasers not actually viewing hi-def due to improper cabling is flawed, but it should give an indication that regular non techie folks are not going to be able to burn cds or go through whatever procedure is required to update. Maybe in a year if 2.0 players automatically update when connected to the internet, but that presupposes that these people are going to have a router and be able to use it, things will have changed.

These things need to play every movie out of the box or be idiot proof-rare firmware updates. Otherwise, movies are not going to work, and players are going to get bricked

not at all. But most people that are that incompetent usualy know someone that can help. The other day my neighbour called because his printer stopped working. I went over and noticed he unplugged the USB cable by mistake.

But again. Do you think the person that is doomed because he can't burn a CD and can't find someone to help him have a fully wired houise with ethernet going behind the TV and know, when setting up the player, the IP addresses and what ever else he needs to get it working?

It is a joke to make a big deal about FW updates and how complicated they are when at the same time whining that not every player is 2.0 There is a lot more involved with having a working network connection on a player then what is involved with FW upgrades.

[Maxell]

2. I see a HUGE difference between blu and dvd on my 32" LCD. I would guess the same for 26". Under that you really dont need it for other reasons than PQ difference. My first priority would be buying a bigger tv. I also can't picture buying a blu-ray player for a kitchen tv or kids room. Right now it's more of a home theater enthusiast type of purchase.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

there where no FW but DVD was just as plagued, the difference was that your player became obsolete. Many of the first players could not play DL disks when they came out several months later. Others could play them but there was a major issues on the brake (movie stuttering and freezing).

With web features and fancy "menus" upgrades are a thing you should get used to (be it BD, HD DVD or something else like DL)



why do you think they are there? it is precisely to drive people away. It is knowsn as FUD read all about it. It is spread by people with a bias against something (like this author) These are not issues with BD, they are garbage created by the authors to slow down BD adoption.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

But what ever format that will unfortunately never be true. The issue is not the players but what you want. The minute you say HDi or BD-J (the fox title you mentioned was not a BD+ issue) you are talking a multi functional device, just like any PC. And just like any PC (or PC equipment) you will need updates for ever, because simply put the guy that created the device a few months ago (or years ago) cannot know what the content creator will want in a few days, weeks, months or years. It has nothing to do with BD, it is asking a device to evolve with the demand.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by mightypen

You have more faith in the average consumer than I.

I know that "study" about an alarmingly high percentage of hi-def tv purchasers not actually viewing hi-def due to improper cabling is flawed, but it should give an indication that regular non techie folks are not going to be able to burn cds or go through whatever procedure is required to update. Maybe in a year if 2.0 players automatically update when connected to the internet, but that presupposes that these people are going to have a router and be able to use it, things will have changed.

These things need to play every movie out of the box or be idiot proof-rare firmware updates. Otherwise, movies are not going to work, and players are going to get bricked.

Firmware discs can be mailed to individuals in need of a update. I still have an old standalone DVD player from 1997. I can't play certain DVDs and there is no such thing as DTS as far as that player is concerned. This is the normal process of a new format. That's all to it.

Some people just have no experience with early adoption of formats. Format adoption for the J6P is ALWAYS last. We are in the early stages of this format. We all need to try to remember that. By the time J6P really gets into the act, Blu-ray players will probably be between $40 to $90 and half the size (just like DVD).

[supersix4]

I know for a fact in my bedroom with my aquos 1080p compared to my old hdtv there was a BIG DIFFERENCE between the two in PQ and AQ so this guy is out of his tree as for the comments about profile 1.0 players the only people that would need to upgrade to 1.1 or 2.0 are people who want live and people who are special feature junkies ... hes got some points but still doesnt really break them down like he should, keeps the argument 1 sided... I love my ps3's and my S1

[X400]

meh his argument is kind of weak, but i could see people using them as an excuse not to buy into hd media