The Criterion Collection

[hoytereden]

Personally, I'd like to see some more De Sica in the Collection. Along with upgrades to Bicycle Thieves and The Children Are Watching Us, I'd like to see Shoeshine, Miracle in Milan, and The Garden of the Finzi-Continis. The last has one of the most heart-breaking finales I've ever seen.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

It's stuff like this that leads to me believe that silent films and sound films are essentially two different art forms that happen to use the same medium.

There's typically a different language being used to communicate ideas with the audience. Obviously, sound films use visual storytelling to a great extent in many films, and heck some sound films are practically silent anyways. But great silent films aren't "missing sound." They are created with a storytelling method that is 100% visual.

A truly great silent film doesn't need cards or subtitles. If it's made correctly everything that needs to be communicated can be done so visually.

It makes me think that Jacques Tati's films might as well be silent films too, since its all visually-driven as opposed to dialogue.

I wonder if any director has ever made a modern silent film with subtitles and music? It would be dreadful I'm sure since subtitles would be unnecessary.

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by soarinsteven

Yes! I'm eagerly awaiting high def releases of Amores perros and 21 Grams.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/21-Grams-Blu-ray/3302/

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by RojD

I was completely rapt in Gravity from the great opening visuals, but when we got the big reveal about Ryan's mystery just after, I groaned aloud. Loudly. (Yeah, I'm that guy in the theater.) It seemed so trite, especially in contrast to the fantastic visuals.

And it was the same thing in Children of Men, which I rewatched after. Another trite, obvious script with spectacular visuals. Does Cuaron have some kind of madonna complex? I'd love to see him interpret a script that a producer gave him, though I think he's probably too big for that to happen now. Or maybe his collaborators could just set up a rule that Cuaron doesn't get to write any more women's roles.

Same here. I think that Gravity is an outstanding movie, but the grief porn backstory with Ryan is unnecessary clutter.

Fortunately, Gravity was good enough for me to purchase on Blu-ray after seeing it at the theater, and, much to my surprise, the visual experience does not lose a lot in translation from a big theater screen to my comparably small television. There are still some great white-knuckle moments.

I really loved Alfonso Cuarón's Children of Men when I saw it at the theater, and I enjoyed revisiting it months later on DVD. I got tired of that movie pretty quickly for some reason, though. I cannot put my finger on it, but your post probably puts my weariness in words better than I can.

I rented Y Tu Mamá También several years ago, and I thought that it was a fascinating movie. I have no desire to revisit it or to buy the Criterion Blu-ray, though. I have nothing against the film, but I'm just...I'm just not feeling it.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by ultlife2013

The collection needs more Cuaron in it ASAP!

I'd vote for A Little Princess and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, but those are both Warner-owned, and therefore it'll never happen.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

I would love to see Alejandro González Iñárritu featured in the collection, he's made some devastating films.

Speaking of Alejandro González Iñárritu, it would be awesome if Criterion was able to acquire the rights to do an upgrade of the BMW short film series The Hire. González Iñárritu's Powder Keg (with Stellan Skarsgård) was my favorite of the series.

Even if they could, I'm not sure Criterion would want to do something so (literally) commercial.

[ultlife2013]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Same here. I think that Gravity is an outstanding movie, but the grief porn backstory with Ryan is unnecessary clutter.



Fortunately, Gravity was good enough for me to purchase on Blu-ray after seeing it at the theater, and, much to my surprise, the visual experience does not lose a lot in translation from a big theater screen to my comparably small television. There are still some great white-knuckle moments.



I really loved Alfonso Cuarón's Children of Men when I saw it at the theater, and I enjoyed revisiting it months later on DVD. I got tired of that movie pretty quickly for some reason, though. I cannot put my finger on it, but your post probably puts my weariness in words better than I can.



I rented Y Tu Mamá También several years ago, and I thought that it was a fascinating movie. I have no desire to revisit it or to buy the Criterion Blu-ray, though. I have nothing against the film, but I'm just...I'm just not feeling it.

That "grief porn story" that Ryan had was apart of her character arc in the film. Without that what would be the point of the later scenes? Should she have been a level headed person with no issues at all? Would that have worked as well with the film's story arc? And if not, what "grief porn story" would you think that would have worked better for her character?

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jw007

I wonder if any director has ever made a modern silent film with subtitles and music? It would be dreadful I'm sure since subtitles would be unnecessary.

Silent Movie (Mel Brooks, 1976). There is actually one spoken word, ironically uttered by Marcel Marceau.

The Artist (Michel Hazanavicius, 2011). Not completely silent, but almost.

[cakefactory]

"Grief porn"??? What does that even mean? If Gravity qualifies, then what is Cries and Whispers or Autumn Sonata or Grave of the Fireflies? Hardcore Hott XxX Grief Action?

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

"Grief porn"??? What does that even mean? If Gravity qualifies, then what is Cries and Whispers or Autumn Sonata or Graveyard of the Fireflies? Hardcore Hott XxX Grief Action?

Breaking the Waves

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by jw007

I watched all the supplements from The Freshman last night and thought it was a great package in addition to the film.

One thing that struck me though was, how come back in the silent era (1910s-1920s), subtitles weren't used? Instead they used panels with text in between shots/sequences, but that is almost like subtitles, except more of a general "idea" that was going on in the scene as opposed to "word for word" dialogue. Perhaps the technology did not yet exist for subtitles back then or maybe it would have been too distracting for audiences.

If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd love to know more.

Actually, a few films did use superimposed titles from time to time, usually at points when they were especially concerned about not wanting to interrupt the on-screen action.

There were a number of reasons this was rare, however. One is that the convention of what we now call "intertitles" (but were originally called "subtitles") was well-established by the early 1910s. Another is that numerous films used title cards as not just a way of presenting dialogue or narration, but as additional editorial commentary on the action by having artwork backgrounds for the words that helped reinforce various themes and moods, or even make visual puns (Lloyd's films do this frequently). Another is that film laboratory duplication at the time resulted in obviously higher-contrast, softer copies, so superimposed titles would always have a slightly degraded image. Most optical effects like dissolves, fades, irises, split-screens, and superimposed images were carefully planned out in advance and photographed in-camera on one piece of film to avoid the need for additional generations of duplication. This is also a primary reason why early sound films were shot in multiple language versions rather than subtitled, and foreign languages are also another major key to the use of intertitles rather than subtitles in silents:

Probably the single most important reason for having title card inserts rather then superimposed titles, was that it made it much easier and cheaper for foreign distribution. A film could be sent to any country in the world and each country could cut out the English (or whatever) title cards and replace them with titles in their own languages.

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Silent Movie (Mel Brooks, 1976). There is actually one spoken word, ironically uttered by Marcel Marceau.

The Artist (Michel Hazanavicius, 2011). Not completely silent, but almost.

Also the wonderful BLANCANIEVES (Pablo Berger, 2012). However all of these used traditional "intertitles" rather than superimposed subtitles, which I got the impression was the original question.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

"Grief porn"??? What does that even mean? If Gravity qualifies, then what is Cries and Whispers or Autumn Sonata or Grave of the Fireflies? Hardcore Hott XxX Grief Action?

Gravity was, in my opinion, a mediocre film in context of story, and yes it has an innovative cinematography. In my final analysis, it is a technical marvel, nothing else. It never reaches a Bergmanian level of sincerity.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

Gravity was, in my opinion, a mediocre film in context of story, and yes it has an innovative cinematography. In my final analysis, it is a technical marvel, nothing else. It never reaches a Bergmanian level of sincerity.

My reaction was that it was spectacular in the theater (I saw it twice) but I really disliked the endless scene where she listens to the Asian guy on the radio and cries, it kinda made me want to groan. It probably doesn't hold up in home viewings without a huge screen and great sound system, but I dunno cause I haven't seen it on disc and don't plan on buying it till it gets down to the 10 dollar range. I was just questioning his use of the term "grief porn," it sounded like a very flippant way to criticize something, but maybe he has some definition that makes sense.

[ultlife2013]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

"Grief porn"??? What does that even mean? If Gravity qualifies, then what is Cries and Whispers or Autumn Sonata or Grave of the Fireflies? Hardcore Hott XxX Grief Action?

I was quoting the previous OP I was replying to, I didn't make up the term.

[atlantajoseph]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

Personally, I'd like to see some more De Sica in the Collection. Along with upgrades to Bicycle Thieves and The Children Are Watching Us, I'd like to see Shoeshine, Miracle in Milan, and The Garden of the Finzi-Continis. The last has one of the most heart-breaking finales I've ever seen.

All great films! Also let's not forget DeSica's La Ciociara (aka Two Women) with Sophia Loren...

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by ultlife2013

That "grief porn story" that Ryan had was apart of her character arc in the film. Without that what would be the point of the later scenes? Should she have been a level headed person with no issues at all? Would that have worked as well with the film's story arc? And if not, what "grief porn story" would you think that would have worked better for her character?

No character backstories were necessary in Gravity. I felt enough of a kinship with Sandra Bullock and George Clooney during the extended opening shot that nothing else was needed. Their personalities and mannerisms shined through during those first few minutes, and I think that the casting of Bullock and Clooney was a brilliant move on the part of the filmmakers, because the movie needed familiar actors who would ease us viewers into inviting them into our imaginations.

Everybody has issues of some sort, and, for this reason, I think that the horrifying scenario presented by the events in Gravity would have had a more far-reaching and ubiquitous effect on the audience had the movie simply depicted the characters doing their best to handle the situation at hand in a way that allows us to imagine ourselves and our respective insecurities in such a situation.

Here's a recommended homework assignment...

1. Watch Gravity
2. After you watch Gravity, watch All Is Lost, which was my favorite film of 2013.

Notice how the character backstories, or lack thereof, affect your dread of the predicaments at hand.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Blu-Velvet

Actually, a few films did use superimposed titles from time to time, usually at points when they were especially concerned about not wanting to interrupt the on-screen action.

There were a number of reasons this was rare, however. One is that the convention of what we now call "intertitles" (but were originally called "subtitles") was well-established by the early 1910s. Another is that numerous films used title cards as not just a way of presenting dialogue or narration, but as additional editorial commentary on the action by having artwork backgrounds for the words that helped reinforce various themes and moods, or even make visual puns (Lloyd's films do this frequently). Another is that film laboratory duplication at the time resulted in obviously higher-contrast, softer copies, so superimposed titles would always have a slightly degraded image. Most optical effects like dissolves, fades, irises, split-screens, and superimposed images were carefully planned out in advance and photographed in-camera on one piece of film to avoid the need for additional generations of duplication. This is also a primary reason why early sound films were shot in multiple language versions rather than subtitled, and foreign languages are also another major key to the use of intertitles rather than subtitles in silents:

Probably the single most important reason for having title card inserts rather then superimposed titles, was that it made it much easier and cheaper for foreign distribution. A film could be sent to any country in the world and each country could cut out the English (or whatever) title cards and replace them with titles in their own languages.

Fantastic explanation!

Obviously I could have just spent an hour searching Google and reading things on Wikipedia for an explanation, but I wanted to see who in this forum/thread knew about this kind of technical history. Thank you for explaining everything and it makes a lot of sense that intertitles were used for financial purposes so other foreign markets could cut out the English titles and replace them with their own language cards.

Again, great that you shared all this (and others have already thanked your original posting). Two thumbs up, amigo.

[ultlife2013]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

No character backstories were necessary in Gravity. I felt enough of a kinship with Sandra Bullock and George Clooney during the extended opening shot that nothing else was needed. Their personalities and mannerisms shined through during those first few minutes, and I think that the casting of Bullock and Clooney was a brilliant move on the part of the filmmakers, because the movie needed familiar actors who would ease us viewers into inviting them into our imaginations.

Everybody has issues of some sort, and, for this reason, I think that the horrifying scenario presented by the events in Gravity would have had a more far-reaching and ubiquitous effect on the audience had the movie simply depicted the characters doing their best to handle the situation at hand in a way that allows us to imagine ourselves and our respective insecurities in such a situation.

Here's a recommended homework assignment...

1. Watch Gravity
2. After you watch Gravity, watch All Is Lost, which was my favorite film of 2013.

Notice how the character backstories, or lack thereof, affect your dread of the predicaments at hand.

I don't have All Is Lost, can I borrow it from you?

[AaronJ]

I want Criterion to update Hiroshima Mon Amour to BD. That would make me VERY happy.