Fifth Element to be redone, says Sony

[JTK]

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=2

bottom of page 2:

On top of that, parts of some discs had been transferred from less than pristine film assets, exhibiting the kind of dirt and scratches seen in a worn print. Sony has now committed to rereleasing The Fifth Element for just this reason.

The way I see this, this is essentially an admission that something was rushed out and a subpar product was released.

I think any of you that bought any of these discs, like Fifth Element, that fall under this auspice deserve full compensation either via a direct trade for the new one (i.e. the version they should have put out in the first place or not bother at all) or a full refund.

[zombie]

Kind of makes you think Sony did this intentionally. I mean seriously, how could they have thought the current BD quality would be good enough to beat HD DVD? C'mon, I'm not that gullable. Along with rereleases I hope they come out with a major pricecut on their player.

[JTK]

I'm probably going to post this at the other forum. Names removed for whatever...

I can't imagine they are going to replace all the shitty titles they have released.

By all rights, they should. They should yank every single one of those subpar discs right off the shelves and start over.


Furthermore, anyone that bought those discs should be fully compensated by a full trade for the newer version* or a full refund.

*(re. the version that should have been released in the first place vs. the rushed botch jobs that should never have seen the light of day in the first place.)

Also, I knew all of these first release discs would get re-released, but it's only been a month! The double-dip train has started, and Sony's in the conducter's seat.

Except this is so needless and could have so easily been prevented.

It's pathetic, really.


What a f'ing waste all the way around.

It's almost laughable really, but if I bought one of these crap discs, I can assure you, laughing is the last thing I'd be doing after reading this admission to putting out subpar material, which is what that basically is.


Just don't bother to release it until you can do it right. Especially when you're trying to launch an entirely new endeavor!



Considering the way the Blu-Ray has gone, maybe Blu-Ray would have been better off waiting until at least August, or even October at this rate, to launch on ALL thrusters, right out of the gate vs. the botchy and half assed rushed job we've seen thus far.

Who can honestly deny it?

This is an admission of rushing out crap to meet a deadline and trying to clean the mess up later.

Doesn't pretty much everyone at this point believe that Blu-Ray would have been better of even delaying as late as October if need be to come out with all that high end hardware from the big boys and software WORTHY of those machines vs. what we've gotten so far? Blu-Ray deserved better than all this!

I do. Very inauspicious way to get started...

I think the launch was a botch and I'm stating it on the record, outright, because Fifth Element is sure as hell not the only disc that falls under that umbrella. Not by a longshot.

[PurpleAardvark]

For all the bad hype you are giving on this post I would like to say that I am much happier with my blu ray player than the piece of junk HD player I had. The pic quality is much eter and so is the sound. I like the copy of the 5th element and I am happy that I bought it. You can nit pick all you want to about double dipping and so forth but the truth is mistakes happen. I imagine that the whole blu ray investment is huge. I am happy as a customer to buy this product and support it to help blu ray grow. I do agree that sony should recall the old copies of the fifth element if there is something wrong. However from what i could see the movie looked and sound 10 times better than the reg. dvd vers. that I had. For the $20 I spent I think it is worth while and maybe by giving feedback in a more positive way the mistakes will be corrected better. That is just my thoughts on this subject.

[Richard Kappele]

Well, I hear people saying how wonderful their Blu-Ray pictures are and I'm glad they are happy with them. I have Blu-Ray and HD DVD and there is no question that HD DVD has a much superior picture, hands down. Sorry, but that's the truth.
By the way, my Toshiba HD-XA1 is a really nice, well-built unit and navigation is lightning fast compared to the hourglass taunting Samsung .

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Richard K

Well, I hear people saying how wonderful their Blu-Ray pictures are and I'm glad they are happy with them. I have Blu-Ray and HD DVD and there is no question that HD DVD has a much superior picture, hands down. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Yes, it is.

By the way, my Toshiba HD-XA1 is a really nice, well-built unit and navigation is lightning fast

LOL, no it's not.

I own the Xa1 with the latest firmware and while the navigation is better than when the units first came out, it is not anywhere close to being that fast. C'mon now...

...compared to the hourglass taunting Samsung

Hmmm...






Look, I'm glad that a better disc is coming along, and frankly, I hope most of the other Blu-Ray discs are given a long, hard look and given the same consideration.


But who can deny it at this point?

This Blu-Ray launch was/is a botch. Not a cataclysmic one, and I've certainly seen worse, but a botch nonetheless.




I am truly starting to wonder if Blu-Ray would have been better of just waiting until October, to do it all right, in a rock solid, unfifed, hardcore launch. Like we all expected, hoped for, and what it should have been.

Have that big boy hardware come out in October, like it's going to anyways, and have software ready with it that's WORTHY of that hardware...unlike what we have now.



This would have given HD-DVD an uncontested 5-6 months tops (?) in the marketplace.

This is realitively little to nothing, in terms of retail and the big picture, but obviously there's risk involved.


But here what doesn't add up:

How does Sony allow a threat like Microsoft, a company you never underestimate, to have a YEAR's headstart on them with the Xbox360 (which is hot and kicking ass, btw), and at the end of that year, their response is to bring out a product that's $100-$200 more expensive that's going to play mostly the same kinds of games...but yet they didn't/couldn't leave HD-DVD out there by itself for any lenght of time?



We all can argue about BD being in the PS3 all we want, but here's the facts:

1.) Most gamers don't give a damn. They don't even know what it is. They're going to walk in the store during the holidays and look to their left, look to their right, see more or less the same exact games, and then most of them are going to choose the cheaper ticket to those same games.



2.) Sony did help themselves with a C showing at E3 when it needed to be an A+.

To that end, starting from E3 on forward, their completely arrogant and out of touch rhetoric and corporate speak in addition to (especially) the prices, has done an excellent job in alienating an ever growing segment of their primary marketplace: The gamers.

Believe me: As a gamer of nearly 30 years, it's the damned truth. You can go to gaming forums all over the net and you can talk to them in person.


It doesn't matter how many times Sony talks about "It's a computer. It does everything but wipes your ass."

The end result is the same.

You can go all the way back to 3D0 and see what happens EVERY time someone tries to come into the gaming console world with this: "Be everything to everyone/glorified home theater set top box" idea and then charge extra for it.

The gamers DON'T CARE.

Yeah, I was one of the suckers that bought that thing because I FELL FOR AND BELIEVED THE PROMISES AND POTENTIAL.

The 3D0 was way ahead of its time. Amazing machine! And yet it died.



I'm wondering if the PS3 might have a bit of that same problem.

Maybe Blu-Ray should have been an add on situation or added later when developers are actually going to start USING the BD power and capacity...which will not happen anyways for several years.

You're going to see the SAME games, looking and performing almost exactly the same for at least the next 2-3 years, across platforms.

BD will offer NO appreciable advantages to gaming for the at least the next 2-3 years.

As is, and you can look this up, a lot of the game developers are not really thrilled with the PS3 dev kits. You just had THQ drop a popular title like WWE RAW vs. Smackdown 2007 this week. It's an Xbox360 and current gen consoles title only. That's not good news, folks.



Maybe Blu-Ray should have been saved for PS4. Who knows...


At this point, Sony has a terrible PR problem going for them, at the very least, and especially with their primary marketplace: The gamers. But don't take my word for it.


^^

All this, and yet they rushed Blu-Ray out so HD-DVD wouldn't be left out there for any amount of time, basically?

I think I know the obvious answer as to WHY that happened like that, but I'll leave that up to you all to figure it out for yourselves.


The only thing I'll say to it is this:

The typical early adopter will blow money out of their butts if they want something hot.

If he bought HD-DVD first and enjoyed it for six months, and then Blu-Ray came out and was even better? Guess what? No harm, no foul. He's either going to add Blu-Ray to the mix and/or dump HD-DVD for it.

This stuff just doesn't add up...

[Richard Kappele]

The Toshiba takes forever to start-up, load a disk, and go in and out of set-up; but once the disk is loaded, navigating and jumping to a scene is faster than on any DVD player I have (and I have 6 from Pioneer Elites to Panasonics).

[Dr Kain]

JTK, don't forget the fact that the one Sony rep said they'll sell a million units whether they'd release games for the PS3 or not.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

JTK, don't forget the fact that the one Sony rep said they'll sell a million units whether they'd release games for the PS3 or not.

Over the course of how much time? Hell, are there even a million people on the Earth that own HDTV's yet? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Richard Kappele

The Toshiba takes forever to start-up, load a disk, and go in and out of set-up; but once the disk is loaded, navigating and jumping to a scene is faster than on any DVD player I have (and I have 6 from Pioneer Elites to Panasonics).

Wow, no offense, but again, I respectfully disagree. If I brought some Pioneer Elite 59 and 79 owners that I know on here, I know they'd disagree with you as well, or at the very least, they'd ask you specifically like I'm going to: Which DVD players do you/did you actually own?


My Onkyo DVSP1000 still kicks the holy hell out of the Toshiba in terms of speed, response time, build quality, you name it.

I just don't agree with some of these people that have somehow elevated the Toshibas to this almightly giant killer does everything so amazing, across the boards.

It simply isn't true. My Onkyo's audio capabilties still own the Toshiba, especially in terms of CD, SACD, and DVD-A. It has better DACs.

Build quality? The Onkyo 1000 is better built than some receivers. It's a tank that probably would survive a nuclear attack.

The Toshibas are well built for their price points and that's fine.


Video? The Onkyo still beats the Toshiba on upconverting DVD's, contrary to the hype you've probably seen on at least on other prominent forum. I can't believe how many people have bought into this hype that the Toshiba is the new king of upconverting video, but these are the same people that somehow believe the $200 Oppo players are second only to the almighty Denon 5910 for video performance. Whatever.


The one thing the Toshiba does excel at is what matters most: It puts out the current new standard in great high definition at a bargain basement price. But that's all it does.

[Richard Kappele]

I currently have the following players:

Panasonic DVD-RP82 (two of them)
Panasonic DMR-E20
Pioneer DVL-919
Pioneer Elite DVL-91
Toshiba SD-3990 (in garage)

Samsung BD-P1000
Toshiba HD-XA1

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Richard Kappele

I currently have the following players:

Panasonic DVD-RP82 (two of them)
Panasonic DMR-E20
Pioneer DVL-919
Pioneer Elite DVL-91
Toshiba SD-3990 (in garage)

These are pretty old. At that rate, yeah, I can see where the HD-DVD player would probably fit your earlier description.

[phloyd]

I am glad that they will redo this.

I bought this one and Flying Daggers just so I would have the original shitty disc to compare with the later ones.

I don't really see this as double dipping though - I more see it as fixing mistakes. They should allow a swap if they want to generate good will with their customers.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by phloyd

I am glad that they will redo this.

I bought this one and Flying Daggers just so I would have the original shitty disc to compare with the later ones.

I don't really see this as double dipping though - I more see it as fixing mistakes. They should allow a swap if they want to generate good will with their customers.

Agreed 100 percent.

[Psiweaver]

I will be shocked if they don't do a swap. They should use the same film master as the superbit one and just transfer it over in HD to blu-ray. This would be a jaw dropper is my guess.

[Broken Link]

I dont really understand why they want to redo the movie. the picture is amazing for the movie. The only part that bothered me was the intro logo and then when they panned down in the desert right in the start. Other then that is fantastic.

[suprmallet]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

I will be shocked if they don't do a swap. They should use the same film master as the superbit one and just transfer it over in HD to blu-ray. This would be a jaw dropper is my guess.

I would be shocked if they did. This is the same company that told people their TVs were the problem when they got calls about problems with the PS2 system at launch.

[partridge]

JTK - your comment about the number of PS3's that will sell. Um, you do realise that the PS3 works perfectly well on CRT televisions? It's not HD exclusive!

Sony expect to shift, I believe, about 2 million by the end of the year, and something like 6 million by the end of March/April 2007.

How many HD-DVD players will sell during the same period? Tens of thousands perhaps, hundreds maybe? The fact remains that there will be millions of blu-ray players in homes by Spring next year and less than half of their owners need to pick up a BD movie or two for blu-ray sales to annihilate those of HD-DVD.

Regardless of which format you believe is better, I don't see HD-DVD getting the penetration they need to be successful. The market will be swamped by cross promotions of blu-ray movies and the PlayStation 3, and I think you can take it as a certainty that a BD movie sampler disc will come with every PS3.

HDtv's are outselling CRT and prices continue to fall. By the end of 2007 the number of HDtv's will have increased tremendously.

[JTK]

Member given 7 day suspension due to repeated personal attacks. - nyg

[zombie]

Reopened

[Psiweaver]

The home penetration will win in the battle imo. The problem though is that if Blu-Ray looks like crap when the PS3 launches it could turn a lot of people off of it. Unless Toshiba can get some more CE industry support the war will be over in another year or so.