Previous Format Wars - Blu-ray Forum

almy · 11-01-2007, 12:01 AM

I'm old enough to have participated (as a consumer/enthusiast) in two previous format wars. In the early '70s there was no home video other than ordinary TV (cable was still in it's infancy). You had two-channel stereos. The record industry decided we needed four channel sound aka quadraphonic. CBS/Columbia records and Sony had their SQ matrix system. RCA, Records, the Matsushita group promoted the CD4 discrete system. Different record companies sided with different systems, just as movie studios are doing now. Both systems eventually died and it remained a stereo world until audio-video surround sound. When the first laser videodisc player came out in the late '70s, it was a dog. It was a mechanical nightmare (mine went back for repair 4 times in the six months I had it) and there was a terribly large amount of flawed, defective discs sold - hence the term "laser rot". RCA countered with their CED disc system. It took the "needle in the groove" concept as far as it would ever go. The disc surface was so sensitive that you never saw it. The disc was either in the player or in a protective plastic hard case that was inserted into the machine. The picture quality was no better than VHS. It lasted less than two years. DiscoVision was taken over by Pioneer and the name was changed to LaserVision which became laserdisc. Although it was a niche market item, it did give us widescreen, surround sound and early DTS. In this case the better system won the war. Many feel that the opposite happened with Beta vs VHS, but it is a moot point because they both performed their functions as promised.

This long preamble is meant to point out that when neither competing systems is any good, they both die. In the videodisc war, the superior format won. It could, and eventually did, deliver quality and innovations that were welcomed by video lovers - much as BluRay is doing now. Engineers and designers have only scratched the surface of what they can do with 50 gigs - and Hitachi has a 200gig BD in the works. The head of Disney Home Video said this week that upcoming titles would have extras and features that would be impossible for HD to accomplish. Blu is the superior format..............IT WILL WIN.

GTsmokeya · 11-01-2007, 12:39 AM

Its always interesting to hear about previous technology that make most people today laugh at in comparrison. I too beleive Bluray will win as well, but there is still alot more we have not seen.

GTsmokeya

ps. I remember laserdisc because my dad had one, and even earlier he had a beta player.

snake · 11-01-2007, 12:52 AM

I wrote a ced vs laserdisc format war story here on the forum but i cannot find my post...whatever...i don't know if you remember Almy what happened when CED was practically crunched by laserdisc...RCA practically ended rebating the player. I travelled many times to the USA and i found that CED players at US$80 from a $200 list price. Even i don't remember if was at one old Montgomery-ward or similar store where if you buy the player they give the chance to get movies discs at $2 each, no matter how many you buy.

The mail order store Ken Cranes from California (now dvd planet.com) sold the CED stock at $1. I received catalog from them with that offers.

Just a few months later RCA announced that they'll descontinue the format, and that they'll give service for some years and after, kablum!

In the 90's RCA debuted their first laserdisc player.

Now the situation is pratically the same, HD-DVD is so desperate that they're are practically giving away the players, that's the final part of the eventual end of the format...

And seeing that on the avsforum there's still hd-fans that think disney, after their announcement at the blue ray fest, will be neutral....HEEE...poor boys...

EricJ · 11-01-2007, 01:47 AM

I remember VHS vs. Beta--
And that was back in the days when we all believed that the format would be used for taping Reggie Jackson baseball games, so we could watch them later.

When Magnetic Video came up with the crackpot indie-company idea of putting out "Longest Day" and "Muppet Movie" already recorded on tapes, the idea of taping TV shows was downplayed into a secondary aspect of the new format.
Beta didn't have the stuff to handle large-format commercial tapes of two quality hours, and the war was won by commercial software sales--Which Beta tried to keep up with, and failed.

JadedRaverLA · 11-01-2007, 04:09 AM

I also wrote a long post about the first "videodisc wars" some time ago. While it was definitely laserdisc vs. CED in the U.s., it should also be mentioned that JVC released a competing format called VHD in Japan, that was better than CED, but also never took off. They also planned to release an audio-only version called AHD to compete against CD but it never even got off the ground.

The important lesson to take away from that format war was that laserdisc was far and away more expensive than the other two formats (especially compared to CED) but was the only one to survive. Also, while VHD had more special features (3d support, karaoke features) it too lost out to laserdisc due to the suppior quality. That should help put the current format war in a bit more perspective.

11-01-2007, 12:01 AM	#1
almy Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	Previous Format Wars I'm old enough to have participated (as a consumer/enthusiast) in two previous format wars. In the early '70s there was no home video other than ordinary TV (cable was still in it's infancy). You had two-channel stereos. The record industry decided we needed four channel sound aka quadraphonic. CBS/Columbia records and Sony had their SQ matrix system. RCA, Records, the Matsushita group promoted the CD4 discrete system. Different record companies sided with different systems, just as movie studios are doing now. Both systems eventually died and it remained a stereo world until audio-video surround sound. When the first laser videodisc player came out in the late '70s, it was a dog. It was a mechanical nightmare (mine went back for repair 4 times in the six months I had it) and there was a terribly large amount of flawed, defective discs sold - hence the term "laser rot". RCA countered with their CED disc system. It took the "needle in the groove" concept as far as it would ever go. The disc surface was so sensitive that you never saw it. The disc was either in the player or in a protective plastic hard case that was inserted into the machine. The picture quality was no better than VHS. It lasted less than two years. DiscoVision was taken over by Pioneer and the name was changed to LaserVision which became laserdisc. Although it was a niche market item, it did give us widescreen, surround sound and early DTS. In this case the better system won the war. Many feel that the opposite happened with Beta vs VHS, but it is a moot point because they both performed their functions as promised. This long preamble is meant to point out that when neither competing systems is any good, they both die. In the videodisc war, the superior format won. It could, and eventually did, deliver quality and innovations that were welcomed by video lovers - much as BluRay is doing now. Engineers and designers have only scratched the surface of what they can do with 50 gigs - and Hitachi has a 200gig BD in the works. The head of Disney Home Video said this week that upcoming titles would have extras and features that would be impossible for HD to accomplish. Blu is the superior format..............IT WILL WIN.

11-01-2007, 12:52 AM	#3
snake Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Mexico	I wrote a ced vs laserdisc format war story here on the forum but i cannot find my post...whatever...i don't know if you remember Almy what happened when CED was practically crunched by laserdisc...RCA practically ended rebating the player. I travelled many times to the USA and i found that CED players at US$80 from a $200 list price. Even i don't remember if was at one old Montgomery-ward or similar store where if you buy the player they give the chance to get movies discs at $2 each, no matter how many you buy. The mail order store Ken Cranes from California (now dvd planet.com) sold the CED stock at $1. I received catalog from them with that offers. Just a few months later RCA announced that they'll descontinue the format, and that they'll give service for some years and after, kablum! In the 90's RCA debuted their first laserdisc player. Now the situation is pratically the same, HD-DVD is so desperate that they're are practically giving away the players, that's the final part of the eventual end of the format... And seeing that on the avsforum there's still hd-fans that think disney, after their announcement at the blue ray fest, will be neutral....HEEE...poor boys... Last edited by snake; 11-01-2007 at 12:55 AM.

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11-01-2007, 12:39 AM	#2
GTsmokeya Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	Its always interesting to hear about previous technology that make most people today laugh at in comparrison. I too beleive Bluray will win as well, but there is still alot more we have not seen. GTsmokeya ps. I remember laserdisc because my dad had one, and even earlier he had a beta player.

11-01-2007, 01:47 AM	#4
EricJ Banned Member since:Jul 2007 Location:The Paradise of New England Blu-ray collection:6	I remember VHS vs. Beta-- And that was back in the days when we all believed that the format would be used for taping Reggie Jackson baseball games, so we could watch them later. When Magnetic Video came up with the crackpot indie-company idea of putting out "Longest Day" and "Muppet Movie" already recorded on tapes, the idea of taping TV shows was downplayed into a secondary aspect of the new format. Beta didn't have the stuff to handle large-format commercial tapes of two quality hours, and the war was won by commercial software sales--Which Beta tried to keep up with, and failed.

11-01-2007, 04:09 AM	#5
JadedRaverLA Power Member Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews:2	I also wrote a long post about the first "videodisc wars" some time ago. While it was definitely laserdisc vs. CED in the U.s., it should also be mentioned that JVC released a competing format called VHD in Japan, that was better than CED, but also never took off. They also planned to release an audio-only version called AHD to compete against CD but it never even got off the ground. The important lesson to take away from that format war was that laserdisc was far and away more expensive than the other two formats (especially compared to CED) but was the only one to survive. Also, while VHD had more special features (3d support, karaoke features) it too lost out to laserdisc due to the suppior quality. That should help put the current format war in a bit more perspective.

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