Dynamic EQ & Dynamic Volume - Please help! I'm losing my mind!

[srinivas1015]

Guys, I could use some help with my audio system. I have an Onkyo receiver and the Polk speakers have been calibrated with Audyssey. I've turned on Dynamic EQ as without it, the dynamic range is way too much. Not to mention the LFE is virtually non-existant without EQ.
I play blu-rays at a volume of -32Db as anything above that is too loud for my taste and also cos neighbors will complain .
Audio engineers obviously mix tracks at 0Db and once the volume is turned lower than that, treble, mids and bass get unbalanced. With EQ on, it keeps the balance which is why without it, I hardly get any bass. Also, once EQ is off, the entire soundstage collapses to the front with VERY little surround activity. But with EQ on, the lesser the volume level, the louder the surrounds become (relative to the fronts). This is a problem as if I put the volume a little low during nighttime, the surrounds become way too loud. But during evenings when I listen at normal levels (-32Db), the surrounds are balanced.
With EQ on, the surround levels are inversely proportional to the volume level which is a problem as I can't keep recalibrating for every nighttime viewing!

Dynamic Volume - Audyssey says that it helps reduce volume spikes. It uses the center channel as the anchor and keeps the volume from spiking too low or high from that level. For example, if there is a 2Db spike, it reduces the 2Db from that speaker and vice versa.

I've been experimenting with Dynamic Volume these days and this is what I've found:
1)With it off, the sound (especially the music) sound much more 'open' as it's given more breathing room. But the downside is that I don't find the audio to be as enveloping. I also cannot hear most of the softer/quieter sounds like chirping in the woods, etc, no matter how high I turn up the volume.
Let's use this scene as reference for the rest of the post :
Forward to 1:30

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - Harry and Hermione help Sirus escape (HD) - YouTube

With earphones, I can hear the flute, dialogue and water flowing.
With Dynamic Volume Off, I can't hear anything other than the dialogue no matter how high I turn up the volume. It's only at 2:01 that I can hear music (when the trumpets & violins start playing).


2)Dynamic Volume set to Light- When this setting is anything other than 'off', I find the music/score to sound a bit 'muffled' with the high notes especially. This is probably cos the slight spike is cut off.
Anyway, I can hear the flute now but it's still faint that I have to actually look out for it to hear it. I still can't hear the water flowing. I noticed that the loud scenes are way too loud now while the quiet scenes remain the same volume level.THis causes the dialogue impossible to hear during an action scene. Simply increasing the center speaker volume doesn't help as the other sounds coming from it are louder than the dialogue. For example, the creature's scream at 2:20 is unbearably loud.


3)Dynamic Volume set to Medium- The loud scenes are more balanced now. The creature's scream is louder than the rest of the stuff (like how it was mixed) but it's not unbearably loud and I have no problem with the dialogue. But now I can no longer hear the flute and water no matter how high I turn it up .

4)Dynamic Volume set to Heavy- The entire audiotrack sounds overblown. I haven't played with this much.




I could really use some help. All I want is the audiotrack to sound like my earphones . I simply want to hear everything without the music getting muffled and without the loud scenes being unbearably loud. (and not having to recalibrate my surround speakers for different volume levels.) Is that too much to ask? .

[hometheatergeek]

Hi srinivas1015, I just looked at your gallery and here is what concerns me:



Your side channels are too far forward in relationship to your LP (listening position). They should either be equal to the couch or better yet slightly behind the LP for a normal surround sound setup. When you run the Auto Calibration you are throwing off Audyssey calculations with the surrounds too far forward to the LP.

I see you would have some trouble with moving the side surrounds speakers behind you. Now... you are running a 7.1 system and what I would like you to try is change the rear speakers and plug them into the side surrounds on the Onkyo and unplug the current side surrounds in front of the couch and turn your system into a 5.1 system. Then rerun Audyssey and see if you get a better blending of surrounds in your room. Also may I suggest you toe in your front L/R speakers cause they are getting a nasty reflection off the side walls. Audyssey does a good job in most rooms but sometimes you have to help it along with proper placement of speakers to get the best optimal sound.

[tommyboy81]

With Dynamic Volume on my Denon 1712 I noticed like a lot of others on here that the surround sound speakers are way to loud and puts out a little more bass than usual. With it off I crank it up to -25 to-30. The bass is there it's just not pushed out as much as with DV on. Because of what DV does with the surround speakers you might be getting overwhelmed with them in your face like that.

It's nice to experiment with. Like the stairs scene in The Dark Knight Rises with Bruce and Alfred. Tron Legacy when Quorra kneels down and whispers back and forth with Kevin Flynn.

[Hearing specialist]

My opion here, toe in your fronts towards the listening spot. Your getting crazy side wall reflections which audyssey corrects for. Getting your physical speakers positioned better will only give the room correction a better job in smoothing the sound for audibility. The dynamic volume choice of medium is what use to be the night modes or midnight modes from what I've read. Dynamic volume is very powerful and dynamic eq is built off how we hear low sounds and higher sounds differently in relation to the volume. Setting up your rears to function as rears will also aide in getting a better more balanced sound front to rear.

[srinivas1015]

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm gonna rearrange the setup today by moving the sides to a position slightly behind the listening area and I'll toe in the fronts as well. After this, I'll re-run Audyssey.
Would you recommend turning off Dynamic EQ and setting the equalizer in the receiver manually? Can anybody guide me through this process?

What puzzles me is why when I listen to a BD using HTiB speakers/headphones, the dynamic range is compressed while still having clarity but if I try reducing the range with my Polks, the audio starts to sound a bit muffled?

[srinivas1015]

I did a few things today evening. First, I re-positioned my speakers to have the surrounds properly placed and even toed-in my fronts. I got the surrounds all balanced out now (thanks again for advice ). I also decided to re-run the Audyssey auto-calibration. It left Dynamic EQ on but it turned off Dynamic Volume, so I tried it like that. One thing I noticed is how crisp everything sounded, and I heard stuff that I never did before! The mids sounded so much better as well.
But the one problem I have is that the Dynamic Range is WAY too high! So I ended up re-adjusting the volume according to the scene.

-12Db for very quiet scenes such as Lupin & Harry strolling through the forest and talking softly with gentle subtle atmospherics.

-19Db for slightly busy scenes such Harry & his friends conversing in a crowded shop.

-27Db for VERY loud scenes such as the Quidditch match.

All of them sounded better than I've ever heard in my setup but the problem is that I'm constantly fiddling with the remote. I've got to find some sort of middle ground .
I'm trying to limit the dynamic range to a small extent so that loud/action scenes aren't louder than the quiet ones by 30 decibels or something.

Do you guys use Audyssey's Dynamic Volume on your receivers? At what volume level do you listen to?

[tommyboy81]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

I did a few things today evening. First, I re-positioned my speakers to have the surrounds properly placed and even toed-in my fronts. I got the surrounds all balanced out now (thanks again for advice ). I also decided to re-run the Audyssey auto-calibration. It left Dynamic EQ on but it turned off Dynamic Volume, so I tried it like that. One thing I noticed is how crisp everything sounded, and I heard stuff that I never did before! The mids sounded so much better as well.
But the one problem I have is that the Dynamic Range is WAY too high! So I ended up re-adjusting the volume according to the scene.

-12Db for very quiet scenes such as Lupin & Harry strolling through the forest and talking softly with gentle subtle atmospherics.

-19Db for slightly busy scenes such Harry & his friends conversing in a crowded shop.

-27Db for VERY loud scenes such as the Quidditch match.

All of them sounded better than I've ever heard in my setup but the problem is that I'm constantly fiddling with the remote. I've got to find some sort of middle ground .
I'm trying to limit the dynamic range to a small extent so that loud/action scenes aren't louder than the quiet ones by 30 decibels or something.

Do you guys use Audyssey's Dynamic Volume on your receivers? At what volume level do you listen to?

With my room which is basically a cube. Audyssey put my front 3 around -5.5 to -6.5. I took my center to -2. Played around with 0 but with some movies it was a little too much when action started. It blends more nicely to me. But if it made your front three about the same you can go ahead and bump the center up some. It'll help some because when something goes on the sides will be blasting since they're the same db's s the center. That's from my experience. Sadly though, like you, I still bump up the volume with dialogue.

Here's what Dynamic EQ is on Audyessey's site. I don't see nothing wrong with it. Sounds like something you'd want to keep on if you want detail in your surrounds. I still have mine on.

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-eq


How does Dynamic EQ work? Audyssey Dynamic EQ selects the correct frequency response and surround volume levels moment-by-moment. The result is something never before possible – bass response, octave-to-octave balance and surround impression that remain as they should be despite changes in volume. This is the first technology to carefully combine information from incoming source levels with actual output sound levels in the room, a pre-requisite for delivering a loudness correction solution.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

I did a few things today evening. First, I re-positioned my speakers to have the surrounds properly placed and even toed-in my fronts. I got the surrounds all balanced out now (thanks again for advice ). I also decided to re-run the Audyssey auto-calibration. It left Dynamic EQ on but it turned off Dynamic Volume, so I tried it like that. One thing I noticed is how crisp everything sounded, and I heard stuff that I never did before! The mids sounded so much better as well.
But the one problem I have is that the Dynamic Range is WAY too high! So I ended up re-adjusting the volume according to the scene.

-12Db for very quiet scenes such as Lupin & Harry strolling through the forest and talking softly with gentle subtle atmospherics.

-19Db for slightly busy scenes such Harry & his friends conversing in a crowded shop.

-27Db for VERY loud scenes such as the Quidditch match.

All of them sounded better than I've ever heard in my setup but the problem is that I'm constantly fiddling with the remote. I've got to find some sort of middle ground .
I'm trying to limit the dynamic range to a small extent so that loud/action scenes aren't louder than the quiet ones by 30 decibels or something.

Do you guys use Audyssey's Dynamic Volume on your receivers? At what volume level do you listen to?

Can you show roughly were you are placing the mic when you run Audyssey? Sometimes ppl use too wide of a placement. You need to make a smaller intimate bubble surrounding the main LPs.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Can you show roughly were you are placing the mic when you run Audyssey? Sometimes ppl use too wide of a placement. You need to make a smaller intimate bubble surrounding the main LPs.

I placed the mic in the middle of the three-seater, which is the centre of the room as well. I had put the mic in the same position for all three recordings during the Audyssey calibration.

I was using Prisoner Of Azkaban for testing the system and I got it right that day. Everything sounded perfect.
But today I put in The Phantom Menace and the surround speakers are a bit too loud. Not only that but the main problem is that it sounds too 'harsh' or 'bright'.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

I placed the mic in the middle of the three-seater, which is the centre of the room as well. I had put the mic in the same position for all three recordings during the Audyssey calibration.

I was using Prisoner Of Azkaban for testing the system and I got it right that day. Everything sounded perfect.
But today I put in The Phantom Menace and the surround speakers are a bit too loud. Not only that but the main problem is that it sounds too 'harsh' or 'bright'.

So are you saying you are NOT moving the mic when you take the three readings. You should do middle then a foot to the left of middle and then a foot to the right of middle. How many total readings can you take on your Onkyo? Also how are you placing the mic? Are you using a tripod to position the mic at ear level?

Edit: You will find some times that movies are recorded differently and the surrounds might be louder or softer than other movies.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

So are you saying you are NOT moving the mic when you take the three readings. You should do middle then a foot to the left of middle and then a foot to the right of middle. How many total readings can you take on your Onkyo? Also how are you placing the mic? Are you using a tripod to position the mic at ear level?

Yeah, I didn't move the mic at all and had put it in the same position for all three readings. I can make a total of four with my Onkyo. I used my camera's tripod to place the mic.
Do you use Dynamic Volume on your receiver?
Is there any difference between increasing the volume of the sub by using its controller and by increasing the Db on the receiver?
Audyssey set the crossover of my speakers to 40hz. Till now I had set it to 80hz.
Will reducing the Db level of 'treble' on my receiver help with the harsh/bright sounds or will it cause more issues?

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

So are you saying you are NOT moving the mic when you take the three readings. You should do middle then a foot to the left of middle and then a foot to the right of middle. How many total readings can you take on your Onkyo? Also how are you placing the mic? Are you using a tripod to position the mic at ear level?

Edit: You will find some times that movies are recorded differently and the surrounds might be louder or softer than other movies.

agreed, the mic must be moved to a different postion for every measurment reading taken by the system. i did all 8 positions when i calibrated mine. i use a boom mic holder; works great! those 8 positions gave me better sound than just the 1st three alone.

best of luck buddy, keep us posted.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

agreed, the mic must be moved to a different postion for every measurment reading taken by the system. i did all 8 positions when i calibrated mine. i use a boom mic holder; works great! those 8 positions gave me better sound than just the 1st three alone.

best of luck buddy, keep us posted.

Thanks, will do .

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

Yeah, I didn't move the mic at all and had put it in the same position for all three readings. I can make a total of four with my Onkyo. I used my camera's tripod to place the mic.
Do you use Dynamic Volume on your receiver?
Is there any difference between increasing the volume of the sub by using its controller and by increasing the Db on the receiver?
Audyssey set the crossover of my speakers to 40hz. Till now I had set it to 80hz.
Will reducing the Db level of 'treble' on my receiver help with the harsh/bright sounds or will it cause more issues?

Ok since you can take 4 readings this is my suggestion. Again we are trying to create a small bubble of good sound around your LP. May I suggest these positions on your next Audyssey run.

Audyssey.jpg

I do not use Dynamic volume but I do use Dynamic EQ.
When you run Audyssey, if the subwoofer trim in the AVR is very low, such as, -11dB then your subwoofer gain (controller) is set to high. If this is the case you should turn down the gain and rerun Audyssey again till the subwoofer trim in the AVR is closer to 0dB. This is the optimum setting for the sub. You should also change the crossover from 40 Hz to 80 Hz after Audyssey runs. You must still be getting some reflections off your side walls and Audyssey thinks your main speakers go lower than they actually can produce.

Now on the harshness you could try the treble control but I don't think that will work on the surrounds only on the main speakers.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Ok since you can take 4 readings this is my suggestion. Again we are trying to create a small bubble of good sound around your LP. May I suggest these positions on your next Audyssey run.

[Show spoiler]Attachment 68346

I do not use Dynamic volume but I do use Dynamic EQ.
When you run Audyssey, if the subwoofer trim in the AVR is very low, such as, -11dB then your subwoofer gain (controller) is set to high. If this is the case you should turn down the gain and rerun Audyssey again till the subwoofer trim in the AVR is closer to 0dB. This is the optimum setting for the sub. You should also change the crossover from 40 Hz to 80 Hz after Audyssey runs. You must still be getting some reflections off your side walls and Audyssey thinks your main speakers go lower than they actually can produce.

Now on the harshness you could try the treble control but I don't think that will work on the surrounds only on the main speakers.

Thanks for all the info .
Before Audyssey started the calibration process, it made me set the Subwoofer gain till the mic in the listening positioned read 75dB. Once this was done, Audyssey started sending the test tones. After it was done, it set the Sub at -2.5 dB. Is there any difference between adjusting this and adjusting the gain on the Sub itself?
I took these two pictures right now to show the location of my Subwoofer. It's 4feet behind my listening position.








Should I try placing it in the space between the two sofas?







As for the harshness, I'll try turning on THX Re-EQ tomorrow. It's supposed to roll off the highs. I can do this on top of Audyssey EQ.
I can also enable THX Cinema with Re-EQ and apply PLIIx as well. I've never tried these before.

Thanks for all your help so far!

[hometheatergeek]

Your subwoofer level is close enough at -2.5dB so I would leave it there. Now on subwoofer placement all I can tell you is to try and do the crawl method to find the best place for your sub in YOUR room. I can not go by pictures alone.

Read Big Daddy's sticky here on BR.com about sub placement. In fact when you get some spare time you should read as much as you can on all aspects of HT from BD's perspective. He is very good at explaining things.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Your subwoofer level is close enough at -2.5dB so I would leave it there. Now on subwoofer placement all I can tell you is to try and do the crawl method to find the best place for your sub in YOUR room. I can not go by pictures alone.

Read Big Daddy's sticky here on BR.com about sub placement. In fact when you get some spare time you should read as much as you can on all aspects of HT from BD's perspective. He is very good at explaining things.

I'll definitely do the crawl method this weekend .
I tried applying Re-EQ today and I ended up with muffled sound. But I found out the reason for this is cos Onkyo applies the THX roll off on top of the already rolled off Audyssey reference curve.
I then applied Re-EQ when in THX Cinema mode. This sounds great cos the THX roll off is applied on Audyssey Flat. All the shrillness is gone and even the bass is perfect. But Audyssey's Dynamic EQ light still goes on the receiver.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

I'll definitely do the crawl method this weekend .
I tried applying Re-EQ today and I ended up with muffled sound. But I found out the reason for this is cos Onkyo applies the THX roll off on top of the already rolled off Audyssey reference curve.
I then applied Re-EQ when in THX Cinema mode. This sounds great cos the THX roll off is applied on Audyssey Flat. All the shrillness is gone and even the bass is perfect. But Audyssey's Dynamic EQ light still goes on the receiver.

Well you know if you move the sub guess what you will have to do?

[Show spoiler]Yep re-run Audyssey.

Glad to read the audio is sounding better. Maybe you should skip the sub crawl for now and live with the current setup for a couple of weeks.

[srinivas1015]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Well you know if you move the sub guess what you will have to do?

[Show spoiler]Yep re-run Audyssey.

Glad to read the audio is sounding better. Maybe you should skip the sub crawl for now and live with the current setup for a couple of weeks.

That's what I'm thinking too..
Can you shed any more light on the THX modes? Have you ever used them?

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

That's what I'm thinking too..
Can you shed any more light on the THX modes? Have you ever used them?

No I do not have any experience with the THX mode.