I saw this twice today here, and judging from the BBFC site, the UK cinema version should be identical to the PG-13 version, so I want to ask this question here:
Was anyone else really disturbed by how a film this violent and depressing is somehow uncut at 12A, particularly in light of the BBFC cuts to
Spectre? I remember people said the same thing about
The Dark Knight, and at the time, some publicly called for that film to be a 15 cert. Back then, I could see their point, but didn't agree. Now however, with this film, I find it hard not to agree with such a sentiment, particularly when the BBFC are still cutting Bond films for 12 certificates, it seems difficult to believe that the BBFC are drinking the "It's Batman, kids love it"-type of Kool-Aid that the MPAA does, but that seems to be the case here, as I would think that if you took out Batman and Superman and replaced them with any other heroes, fantasy or not, this would head straight for a 15 cert.
For comparison, too, notice how my fellow Americans have
routinely cited Deadpool as a "hard R[-rating]" film for amongst other things, its bloody violence and some two minutes of sex and breasts (admittedly, also a bunch of f-words), yet totally fail to comprehend how fun and funny the film is, and how that turns it into a fairly soft R-rated film, which is allowed to under 17s in much of the Americas, and most of Europe, bar Russia and Spain.
But in this film, which is not really being called out for its violence and inappropriateness for children, I feel like the potential for scarring young people is actually greater than it was with
Deadpool, so I'm rather stunned it doesn't carry the same 15 cert. I understand that there is a lack of blood and gore, but truly, there wasn't that much in the "hard-R"
Deadpool, and while I don't think the theatrical cut of
Batman v Superman needs an R rating in the States, I do think we need to re-tool our MPAA system, so that something like
Batman v Superman isn't considered "family-friendly" by moviegoers, particularly when the same people contend that
Deadpool is for "adults only", thanks to their respective MPAA ratings. On the other hand I have seen 15s doled out to PG-13s many times, so I find the BBFC's choice of 12A uncut mystifying in comparison.
I mean, this is a film where:
During Lois Lane's first scene,
[Show spoiler]where she is on assignment in Africa, arguably, her subterfuge (which she might not have even known about, based on what that CIA agent said) is the catalyst for a violent shootout, in which people kill people onscreen. After this scene, Lane is largely reduced to her common damsel in distress version, but she fares better than the other two major female roles
.
Clark Kent's adoptive mother Martha is around to
[Show spoiler]speculate if Superman owes the world anything or not, then (surprise!) to get kidnapped, only being saved as Batman deliberately blows up her captor onscreen
. As a side note,
[Show spoiler]Superman has a "visit" from his adoptive dad in which Kevin Costner gets to discuss being haunted by drowning horses--great
!
Wonder Woman (and hang on, Diana, but her name is never asked for or uttered, which is really weird) is
[Show spoiler] reduced to modeling various dresses for 90% of her screentime, and during her one costumed sequence, there was still time for a gloriously pervy shot of her on the ground, legs splayed and crotch in full view, and I wasn't even trying to notice the first time. Here I was thinking that I would need the Blu-ray to see such things, but no, even in a movie with zero fun for everyone, you still get to see how good Gal Gadot's bikini wax is, which as much as I liked it, was also sort of humiliating, because it's such an easy, small kindness to women not to put that kind of crap in this kind of movie
. I mean, this is basically the
Schindler's List of superhero movies "for kids" in the first place, I felt disturbed by it enough already that I really didn't need
[Show spoiler]any guilt on top of that
. That doesn't really have anything to do with the 12A thing, but I did have to roll my eyes on the inside, even as I admittedly did enjoy it. I mean, I get that
[Show spoiler]every guy wants to bang Wonder Woman, but come on, she's out in full force for about five minutes of a 150+ minute film--did we need to sexualize her like that
? And don't tell me no one noticed that shot, in a film where every shot of every action sequence has been meticulously pored over for months. Many people noticed, and
[Show spoiler]many people enjoyed, and some of those people did so guilt-free, unlike this guy
.
On top of all this, after some two hours of coldness and dread, Snyder basically wants
[Show spoiler]Superman to sacrifice himself to save the day, complete with an agonizing scream as that creature impales his body. Then, there's even a funeral, and a scene with mourners at a candlelight vigil and a sad epitaph
. During this scene, finally, Snyder tosses out some
[Show spoiler]conciliatory dialogue (from Batman, no less!) about how "men are good [people]". What?! Who the hell is this guy to judge a "good" person? He's practically a borderline sociopath himself
. And the throwaway dialogue to
[Show spoiler]connect this to a JLA movie
was precious indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if
[Show spoiler]the funeral scene dialogue
was demanded by WB once they saw what Snyder was pulling together otherwise. After all, even
[Show spoiler]the obvious revelation that Superman will live is indicated by mere frames, before
the credits roll. And to think that twenty-five years ago, people thought Burton's Batman films were dark...one shudders to think how far this could go if this film is an uber-success at the box office. We might be less than ten years from being able to mount a live-action version of
The Killing Joke and have it go out as PG-13 and 12A.
At first, I was confused and surprised to see that an R-rated cut of this movie could exist, let alone be significantly longer. But now, given that it's definitely been done, my suspicion is that Snyder basically made an R-rated Batman film, and then cut it down to exactly what the MPAA needed that day for PG-13. In fact, I could even buy WB engaging in a long-term back and forth with the MPAA over exactly how to conform each scene, to avoid having to publicly admit that they had to cut the film from an R-rating to a PG-13 one. And I assume that, without the cultural pressure of vetting a Bond film, the BBFC probably just followed suit with the MPAA, using precedent from the recent Nolan films to bolster their decision. This would explain why the R-rated "extended" cut was ready to go even before the PG-13/12A version hit theaters. The sad part is, after all this, any box set of Batman films, with or without the extended cut (which is not yet classified by the BBFC, but which I would be stunned to see get a 12) would still be 15 anyway, since
Batman Returns is still a 15 as of 2009, thanks to the aerosol-can-in-microwave scene. Imagine the hilarious hypocrisy, that under 15s still can't buy a complete box set because Catwoman stuck some (er...hairspray?) in a microwave, but the same kid, provided they are over 12, should be able to buy the theatrical cut BD of
Batman v Superman, a 2 1/2 tome of unrelenting despair, where only Jeremy Irons seems to be in on what a joke the film is (Irons totally kills it in this movie, making the most out of a role with incredibly limited characterization).
But obviously, the big problem is Batman. I'm not a comic book geek, but I am a big fan of Batman in films and television, and I like the idea of Batman. I like the idea that a rich snob can be altruistic to a fault and use his means and his self to better society directly. Having known the loss of loved ones, including more than one parent, I'm also a fan of the darker takes on Batman I've seen in some of the more infamous graphic novels and the Burton and Nolan films. I also liked Zack Snyder's take on
Watchmen, too. Having said all that, in the context of this movie, which is supposed to be entertainment for a wide audience, and has a child-friendly rating, this kind of Batman is a problem. He literally
[Show spoiler]brands bad guys (using a bat insignia), including what the film tells us are "sexual predators", even knowing they'll be killed in prison
, apparently. He has intricate dreams
[Show spoiler]involving him mercilessly killing a group of foes (onscreen) using handguns and automatic weapons
. In "reality", he relentlessly beats and injures foes, which has been done before, but here, he also
[Show spoiler]shows a particularly callous disregard for life
, which neither Burton nor Nolan's Batman ever did. I also think it's abundantly clear that, during
[Show spoiler]the actual title battle, Batman is enjoying Superman's suffering
. I still can't be sure even after two viewings, but I'm fairly certain that the production
[Show spoiler]brightened and expanded the glow of his eyelights when Batman brought Superman down, as if Batman was excited and pleased that Superman was in pain
, and I found that disturbing. I know that Affleck has said he won't take his children to see the film, and really, you can see why. While I admit that the MPAA needs a bridge rating for this film, as it's not into R-territory in many ways, I really do think that the BBFC gave a 12A cert to a 15 film. Of course, any of the elements aI described above would be fine at 12A, but I think taken together, for over two hours, well, I just wonder how a someone younger than 15 (let alone 12) can process the violence and negativity properly, particularly without any moments of levity or happiness in the film. On top of it all, even though both ratings boards probably saw Batman and Superman as mitigating elements, thanks to their widespread identification as fantasy heroes, I could easily also make the argument that because children tend to view softer versions of Batman and Superman, while being denied access to the harder comics, they have built up an idea of them as infallible, positive role models. And I look at our society, especially in my two countries, knowing what happens so often in American schools and what has happened this year in Europe, and I wonder if kids that see this film are really going to be okay afterwards, even if they think they feel fine.
In other news, I am still conflicted about this film. I may be dumbfounded that people seem to think it's okay for kids to go to, but I will admit that there are flashes of brilliance in it, and I do want to see it again (I had to see it twice because I was so stunned by the first viewing, I needed to understand the film better as soon as possible, so I went back hours later), and I will buy the BD and happily watch the extended cut, too. I don't want to just complain, so here are a bunch of amusing, but still, burning questions, regarding the best actor ever to grace the screen this side of Julian Sands' acting career:
What the hell is
[Show spoiler]Jesse Eisenberg doing? Why is he so confused? Was he locked into his contract before he read the script, or did Snyder just allow him to improvise the overwhelming majority of his dialogue? What the hell was with the tonal inconsistency of his character? Why did Holly Hunter reciprocate the sexual tension between herself and him? Why does he personally spoon a cherry Jolly Rancher into that guy's mouth while asking for political favors, then lick his fingers clean? What the hell is with the "speech" scene? Why is his hair so unbelievably bad? Why is he in this movie? Does Jesse Eisenberg believe that this is a David Fincher movie? Was Jessie Eisenberg handed the script for this movie, but with a title that said: The Social Network 2: Superman Meets
Mark Zuckerberg?
Oh, and
[Show spoiler]Aquaman
still sucks, I'm sorry.
And finally, let me point out that I happened to see the trailer for
The Lego Batman Movie before
Batman v Superman today, which looks hilarious. I really, really want to watch that film to try and re-balance my concept of Batman, after this film went a long way towards destroying it.
Now, bring on the detractors.
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