Why the delays? - Blu-ray Forum

DouglasHP74 · 01-26-2009, 09:05 AM

As an early adopter of Blue Ray I would have thought that as the format war was over a year ago, that there would be a rush of catalogue releases to build sales.

After waiting a year to start replacing 400 classic DVD films, I purchased Vudu to rent HD and HDX 1080P 24 frame titles. So I just have to ask, Why the Delays?

Take a classic like Funny Girl. While that may not be everyone's cup of tea, it is a classic film. I have go to cable to watch it on HDNet, but cannot buy it.

I saw Lawrence of Arabia, in the Sony Blue Ray promo reel 3 years ago in Vegas at the Forum, yet no release dates. What am I missing here?

I could name 50 films that I would buy in a heartbeat, but they’re just not available. And if they are announced, such as Dances with Wolves, they are delayed with no release date.

Are classic films not profitable? As many of the films were remastered for the DVD release, I thought that the DVD masters were in 1080P and that this transition was simply a matter of going through the Codec, and The Menu lay out.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Meanwhile my money goes to Vudu.

Douglas

RiseDarthVader · 01-26-2009, 09:23 AM

The reason for most delays is because they need to scan the movies digitally at 2K and then remaster it. Sometimes it can be because the director wants to make sure they are there to supervise the transfer and they are currently busy so you won't get a Blu-ray release for a while.

matthewrounds · 01-26-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasHP74

Are classic films not profitable? As many of the films were remastered for the DVD release, I thought that the DVD masters were in 1080P and that this transition was simply a matter of going through the Codec, and The Menu lay out.

Classic or Catalog titles do not sell as well as new releases. Take a look at everyone's collection here:

https://www.blu-ray.com/community/stats.php

Only four of the top 20 were catalogs released on blu. Given the fact that this is a fan website for blu-ray, sales for catalogs are bound to be a little higher than usual. I most look forward to catalogs, but for new adopters, they are probably only going to purchase new releases and not catalogs. There is an abundant amount of sales data (I cannot find the thread) that reinforces this point.

Just stay patient. It is a lengthy and expensive process to remaster/scan older prints. In time these movies will come and just remember each day is one day closer to their release.

DouglasHP74 · 01-26-2009, 12:34 PM

Thanks for the response.

So the stories that the masters used for the creation of the DVD being the gold standard of 1080P/24 is not what they are using to create the Blue Ray version?

All Blue Ray disks require a new master from the original films at 2K? This is new knowlege. If you have any links on that, please pass them on.

Thanks again. Being patient. And I will review the sales data. The Wizard of Oz, Sleeping Beauty should be good examples.

Douglas

ZIPPO · 01-26-2009, 12:37 PM

blu-ray

Marine Mike · 01-26-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasHP74

Thanks for the response.

So the stories that the masters used for the creation of the DVD being the gold standard of 1080P/24 is not what they are using to create the Blue Ray version?

All Blue Ray disks require a new master from the original films at 2K? This is new knowlege. If you have any links on that, please pass them on.

Thanks again. Being patient. And I will review the sales data. The Wizard of Oz, Sleeping Beauty should be good examples.

Douglas

Well, if it helps Sleeping Beauty has been released already on Blu-ray.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=555

Also in 'Blu-ray there is no 'e'.

Blu Jacket · 01-26-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasHP74

Thanks for the response.

So the stories that the masters used for the creation of the DVD being the gold standard of 1080P/24 is not what they are using to create the Blue Ray version?

All Blue Ray disks require a new master from the original films at 2K? This is new knowlege. If you have any links on that, please pass them on.

Thanks again. Being patient. And I will review the sales data. The Wizard of Oz, Sleeping Beauty should be good examples.

Douglas

Keep in mind also that some are held back for a particular reason. For instance, Ghostbusters is being released to coincide with the anniversary of the movie. Or to take advantage of a related theatrical release, like the Xmen movies coming when Wolverine is in theaters and Star Trek coming when the new movie releases. Some studios will do this with bigger catalog titles. Also, some directors hold up their work for personal reasons. Lucas and Spielberg tend to hold onto their big guns until there is a larger user base to ensure big sales. That's why it took so long for Indiana Jones and Star Wars to appear on DVD. (the obvious exceptions being Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and Clone Wars which released because it was timed with the initial DVD release) I remember distinctly that I had switched to all DVDs when Phantom Menace came out for sale only on VHS.

P@t_Mtl · 01-26-2009, 12:42 PM

There is also the fact that flooding a market with too many products is not a good idea. If they were to release all of their catalogue in a very short period, how much sell would it truly give them? Sure over time they would catch up but there is only so much money consumers can spend on a luxary, and let's face it DVD or BD are luxaries, not essentials. You have monthly bills that need to be taken care of like house, food, kids....

bogo5 · 01-26-2009, 12:49 PM

I thought older movies are scanned in at 4K?

I saw a behind the scenes on a old movie which they said 4K was the norm.

GunZenBomZ · 01-26-2009, 12:52 PM

I'd like to see the Colour version of War of the Worlds, not the latest shite.

RiseDarthVader · 01-26-2009, 01:26 PM

It depends most are still scanned at 2K but some studios like Sony are pushing to have everything scanned at 4K which IMO is a good thing. It also depends how much of a rush they are in to get it scanned. Because scanning at 4K takes more time to transport data between HDD and servers.

ronp10 · 01-26-2009, 01:53 PM

I agree with most that its taking while to release many movies on BD. However, due to the slow release schedule I hope the studios are taking the time to make sure that their product is good. We are getting some great BD with awesome PQ and AQ. But we are also getting some rushed not so good titles not to much better than DVD. So I hope this slower release schedule is good for us consumers. lol

atomik kinder · 01-26-2009, 01:55 PM

Movie studios are not going to dump everything they have too quickly onto one format. Think of it this way. If 50 titles are released in one week, and lets say there are 20 that you want for your collection, do you buy all 20 at once? For most people the answer would be no. If this happens on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, the titles that you want to purchase are going to build up and then you end up having to pick and choose what you really want to get because you cannot afford to get everything at once. You are more likely to purchase something if maybe one or two movies come out at a time that you want. In the other case, there may be movies that you just won't buy now because there are way too many of them. DVD was the same way when it first started. I have a few discs that I never would have purchased because there weren't that many to choose from in the early days. The studios want you to do this, that way they make more money from you. I know there are a few BDs that I bought that I never would have if there were more to pick from earlier on.

Just yesterday, my sister was complaining that there were too many coming out in the next couple months that she had to buy. Me, I mostly purchase new releases and only a few catalog titles of things that I really like. I have slowed down buying newer stuff too because there are many more to choose from now. I don't have to worry about having somethin new to watch.

P@t_Mtl · 01-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomik kinder

Movie studios are not going to dump everything they have too quickly onto one format. Think of it this way. If 50 titles are released in one week, and lets say there are 20 that you want for your collection, do you buy all 20 at once? For most people the answer would be no. If this happens on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, the titles that you want to purchase are going to build up and then you end up having to pick and choose what you really want to get because you cannot afford to get everything at once. You are more likely to purchase something if maybe one or two movies come out at a time that you want. In the other case, there may be movies that you just won't buy now because there are way too many of them. DVD was the same way when it first started. I have a few discs that I never would have purchased because there weren't that many to choose from in the early days. The studios want you to do this, that way they make more money from you. I know there are a few BDs that I bought that I never would have if there were more to pick from earlier on.

Just yesterday, my sister was complaining that there were too many coming out in the next couple months that she had to buy. Me, I mostly purchase new releases and only a few catalog titles of things that I really like. I have slowed down buying newer stuff too because there are many more to choose from now. I don't have to worry about having somethin new to watch.

Exacty what I was trying to say in my post, totaly agree with you.

DouglasHP74 · 01-26-2009, 03:01 PM

Begging your Indulgence

Once again, nice observations but some unresolved issues.

What was the Digital mastering process for DVD? I was under the impression that the masters were 2K 1080P/24 and downsized for DVD. The numbers being offered only reference 2K and 4K,

But are not Blue Ray releases 2K 1080P/24 frame? Wasn’t the big fear of the studios regarding DRM that Blue Ray was equivalent to the Digital Masters in the vault, that initially delayed the release of Blue Ray in the first place?

Part of the confusion/frustration stems from the assumption that the masters were already in place, on those restored films that had been re-released on DVD, and would be used to master the Blue Ray version.

I could accept the arguements that the studios need time to prepare a film if the current masters are not of Blue Ray quality, but that is not my understanding.

While I agree with all of the marketing arguments regarding product saturation. I have the perception that most collectors, (heavy users) have the classics in there DVD collection.

Surely, Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, Lawrence of Arabia, Funny Girl, Hello Dolly, are not going to steal sales from the latest blow up, kill everyone releases.

These are two different markets. If you look at the catalogue, I cannot think of more than 3 of the top 100 films that are on blue ray (Cool Hand Luke, Patton, Once upon a time in the West). Take any of the top 10 films from any genre, Musicals, Drama, yada yada, and the conclusion is the classic market is grossly under served.

Moreover, If I can find the HD, HDX version of films on Vudu, like "Dances with Wolves" which is absolutely stunning, or The premier of the HD version of Funny Girl, and My Fair Lady, that was on HDNet last night, what is the real reason that the Blue Ray versions are not available yet?

As an early adopter, of the finest technology available for entertainment, why is Blue Ray last?

Douglas

RiseDarthVader · 01-26-2009, 03:11 PM

Blu-ray is not at 2K it's at 1920 horizontaly. And no Blu-ray is no where near the quality of the uncompressed studio masters. Uncompressed video alone is several terabytes even if its scanned at 2K and not the higher 4K. Compare that to Blu-rays 50GB max.

Mr. Cinema · 01-26-2009, 03:15 PM

Sadly, we're already getting double dips, even though there are thousands upon thousands of titles not yet on BD.

atomik kinder · 01-26-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasHP74

Surely, Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, Lawrence of Arabia, Funny Girl, Hello Dolly, are not going to steal sales from the latest blow up, kill everyone releases.

Actually the opposite. Those blow up, kill everyone releases are going to take sales away from catalog titles, thus making it not worth it to the studios to release them for sale. The want a larger audience. (Just like Lucas and Star Wars.) It took YEARS after DVD was initially released before Star Wars came out.

Releasing all those movies at once isn't going to happen. It is just how studios work and it is always going to be that way.

They are more willing to sell something to Television, which is basically what VUDU is (pay-per-view) The studio gets paid each time a movie is viewed or shown on TV. Typically with Home video, you have one shot and what you sell initially is pretty much all you are going to sell, unless you are Disney. They know how to work the market by releasing their movies once every ten years or so. They know that they are going to make much more money if they withold their movies for a while.

ClaytonMG · 01-26-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewrounds

https://www.blu-ray.com/community/stats.php

Only four of the top 20 were catalogs released on blu.

I counted 8:
Transformers
Batman Begins
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Cars
Blade Runner
I, Robot
The Fifth Element

bumpylemon · 01-26-2009, 04:20 PM

doug as an early adopter and poster here...you should know the name of the product...

Blu-Ray not Blue Ray as other members have also pointed out the correct name.

01-26-2009, 09:05 AM	#1
DouglasHP74 New Member Member since:Jan 2009 Blu-ray reviews:1	Why the delays? As an early adopter of Blue Ray I would have thought that as the format war was over a year ago, that there would be a rush of catalogue releases to build sales. After waiting a year to start replacing 400 classic DVD films, I purchased Vudu to rent HD and HDX 1080P 24 frame titles. So I just have to ask, Why the Delays? Take a classic like Funny Girl. While that may not be everyone's cup of tea, it is a classic film. I have go to cable to watch it on HDNet, but cannot buy it. I saw Lawrence of Arabia, in the Sony Blue Ray promo reel 3 years ago in Vegas at the Forum, yet no release dates. What am I missing here? I could name 50 films that I would buy in a heartbeat, but they’re just not available. And if they are announced, such as Dances with Wolves, they are delayed with no release date. Are classic films not profitable? As many of the films were remastered for the DVD release, I thought that the DVD masters were in 1080P and that this transition was simply a matter of going through the Codec, and The Menu lay out. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Meanwhile my money goes to Vudu. Douglas Last edited by DouglasHP74; 01-26-2009 at 09:07 AM.

01-26-2009, 12:34 PM	#4
DouglasHP74 New Member Member since:Jan 2009 Blu-ray reviews:1	Mastering process Thanks for the response. So the stories that the masters used for the creation of the DVD being the gold standard of 1080P/24 is not what they are using to create the Blue Ray version? All Blue Ray disks require a new master from the original films at 2K? This is new knowlege. If you have any links on that, please pass them on. Thanks again. Being patient. And I will review the sales data. The Wizard of Oz, Sleeping Beauty should be good examples. Douglas

01-26-2009, 03:01 PM	#15
DouglasHP74 New Member Member since:Jan 2009 Blu-ray reviews:1	Begging your Indulgence Begging your Indulgence Once again, nice observations but some unresolved issues. What was the Digital mastering process for DVD? I was under the impression that the masters were 2K 1080P/24 and downsized for DVD. The numbers being offered only reference 2K and 4K, But are not Blue Ray releases 2K 1080P/24 frame? Wasn’t the big fear of the studios regarding DRM that Blue Ray was equivalent to the Digital Masters in the vault, that initially delayed the release of Blue Ray in the first place? Part of the confusion/frustration stems from the assumption that the masters were already in place, on those restored films that had been re-released on DVD, and would be used to master the Blue Ray version. I could accept the arguements that the studios need time to prepare a film if the current masters are not of Blue Ray quality, but that is not my understanding. While I agree with all of the marketing arguments regarding product saturation. I have the perception that most collectors, (heavy users) have the classics in there DVD collection. Surely, Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, Lawrence of Arabia, Funny Girl, Hello Dolly, are not going to steal sales from the latest blow up, kill everyone releases. These are two different markets. If you look at the catalogue, I cannot think of more than 3 of the top 100 films that are on blue ray (Cool Hand Luke, Patton, Once upon a time in the West). Take any of the top 10 films from any genre, Musicals, Drama, yada yada, and the conclusion is the classic market is grossly under served. Moreover, If I can find the HD, HDX version of films on Vudu, like "Dances with Wolves" which is absolutely stunning, or The premier of the HD version of Funny Girl, and My Fair Lady, that was on HDNet last night, what is the real reason that the Blue Ray versions are not available yet? As an early adopter, of the finest technology available for entertainment, why is Blue Ray last? Douglas

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01-26-2009, 09:23 AM	#2
RiseDarthVader Power Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Australia Blu-ray collection:136	The reason for most delays is because they need to scan the movies digitally at 2K and then remaster it. Sometimes it can be because the director wants to make sure they are there to supervise the transfer and they are currently busy so you won't get a Blu-ray release for a while.

01-26-2009, 12:37 PM	#5
ZIPPO Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2008 Location:Columbus, Ohio Home Theater Gallery:148 Blu-ray collection:472 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:3	blu-ray

01-26-2009, 12:42 PM	#8
P@t_Mtl Blu-ray Duke Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Montreal Home Theater Gallery:4 Blu-ray collection:452 DVD collection:513 Trading Score:3	There is also the fact that flooding a market with too many products is not a good idea. If they were to release all of their catalogue in a very short period, how much sell would it truly give them? Sure over time they would catch up but there is only so much money consumers can spend on a luxary, and let's face it DVD or BD are luxaries, not essentials. You have monthly bills that need to be taken care of like house, food, kids....

01-26-2009, 12:49 PM	#9
bogo5 Senior Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Australia	I thought older movies are scanned in at 4K? I saw a behind the scenes on a old movie which they said 4K was the norm.

01-26-2009, 12:52 PM	#10
GunZenBomZ Senior Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Warwickshire, UK Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:156	I'd like to see the Colour version of War of the Worlds, not the latest shite.

01-26-2009, 01:26 PM	#11
RiseDarthVader Power Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Australia Blu-ray collection:136	It depends most are still scanned at 2K but some studios like Sony are pushing to have everything scanned at 4K which IMO is a good thing. It also depends how much of a rush they are in to get it scanned. Because scanning at 4K takes more time to transport data between HDD and servers.

01-26-2009, 01:53 PM	#12
ronp10 Active Member Member since:Nov 2008 Blu-ray collection:275	I agree with most that its taking while to release many movies on BD. However, due to the slow release schedule I hope the studios are taking the time to make sure that their product is good. We are getting some great BD with awesome PQ and AQ. But we are also getting some rushed not so good titles not to much better than DVD. So I hope this slower release schedule is good for us consumers. lol

01-26-2009, 01:55 PM	#13
atomik kinder Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Omaha NE 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	Movie studios are not going to dump everything they have too quickly onto one format. Think of it this way. If 50 titles are released in one week, and lets say there are 20 that you want for your collection, do you buy all 20 at once? For most people the answer would be no. If this happens on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, the titles that you want to purchase are going to build up and then you end up having to pick and choose what you really want to get because you cannot afford to get everything at once. You are more likely to purchase something if maybe one or two movies come out at a time that you want. In the other case, there may be movies that you just won't buy now because there are way too many of them. DVD was the same way when it first started. I have a few discs that I never would have purchased because there weren't that many to choose from in the early days. The studios want you to do this, that way they make more money from you. I know there are a few BDs that I bought that I never would have if there were more to pick from earlier on. Just yesterday, my sister was complaining that there were too many coming out in the next couple months that she had to buy. Me, I mostly purchase new releases and only a few catalog titles of things that I really like. I have slowed down buying newer stuff too because there are many more to choose from now. I don't have to worry about having somethin new to watch.

01-26-2009, 03:11 PM	#16
RiseDarthVader Power Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Australia Blu-ray collection:136	Blu-ray is not at 2K it's at 1920 horizontaly. And no Blu-ray is no where near the quality of the uncompressed studio masters. Uncompressed video alone is several terabytes even if its scanned at 2K and not the higher 4K. Compare that to Blu-rays 50GB max.

01-26-2009, 03:15 PM	#17
Mr. Cinema Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2008 Location:NC 4K collection:34 Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:85	Sadly, we're already getting double dips, even though there are thousands upon thousands of titles not yet on BD.

01-26-2009, 04:20 PM	#20
bumpylemon Expert Member Member since:Feb 2008 Location:Worcester, Ma Blu-ray collection:51 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:26	doug as an early adopter and poster here...you should know the name of the product... Blu-Ray not Blue Ray as other members have also pointed out the correct name.

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