how important is contrast ratio?

[haugse23]

I'm looking to buy a new hdtv that has full 1080p and seen many sets that have different contrast ratio, ranging from 2500:1 to 1,000,000:1 but i'm not sure what to buy. I have been in stores where i would find one that has 8,000:1 and it would look alot better than a 29,000:1 but then i would find a 50,000:1 that would look better than the 8,000:1. So i was wondering how important this is when buying a tv

[brett_day]

it is really a number that does not mean a whole lot. it is one way that manufacturers use to blow up if you will the stats of their sets compared to their competitors.

contrast ration is basically the difference between the whitest white the tv can display and the blackest black that the tv can display. one thing to remember when searching for a tv is never go on what a tv looks like in a store as none of them are calibrated. if you get a tv with a minimum of 20000:1 you will be set, anything higher will eb better but honestly at a certain point cannot tell a difference.

biggest thing to remember from this though is do not judge a set by the way it looks in a showroom! if you like the tv...get it home, calibrate it, then decide if you like it or not. if you do not like it, take it back and get a different tv!

[haugse23]

im pretty new to this whole hdtv thing so i need to get caught up a little. What do you mean by calibrate?

[My_Two_Cents]

Dynamic contrast ratio is all marketing hype designed to entice the masses who think bigger numbers mean....better. Read these two articles linked below:

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

ANSI/Native Contrast ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that are shown in the set AT THE SAME TIME (like white lettering on a black field or a black and white checkerboard). So a native contrast ratio of 20,000:1 means the black is 20,000 times darker than white. This is the TRUE definition of contrast ratio, because you will always be watching a picture with both light and dark areas displayed at the same time.

Dynamic Contrast Ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that the set is capale of displaying INDEPENDENTLY. So, put an all-white picture on the set and measure it, and then send an all black signal to the set (essentially the set is off) and measure that. Naturally you will get much bigger numbers, but for what purpose? Who is ever going to care what an all-white signal looks like versus the set being off? The reason this number is used predominantly in LCDs is because their native contrast ratios are very low (no counting the new LED backlit sets), so they don't look as good on paper (and hence, in person) as sets with higher contrast ratios. Blacks aren't black; they are more of a dark grey due to the backlight bleeding into the dark areas.

So ignore dynamic contrast ratio numbers. They mean nothing.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by haugse23

im pretty new to this whole hdtv thing so i need to get caught up a little. What do you mean by calibrate?

You want to adjust the settings properly, when you get it home the out-of-the-box settings are way off, get a Digital Video Essentials DVD for HD components and it will walk you through calibration. Or you could pay a professional to come out, but DVE disc should be fine, and much cheaper.

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by callas01

You want to adjust the settings properly, when you get it home the out-of-the-box settings are way off, get a Digital Video Essentials DVD for HD components and it will walk you through calibration. Or you could pay a professional to come out, but DVE disc should be fine, and much cheaper.

exactly.

calibrating your set is nothing more than just adjusting the color, contrast, sharpness etc of your set so that you can get the best possible picture in your home environment. as callas says. you can use dve basics and get great results or you can pay for a professional ISF calibration and they will adjust grey scale and the like in the service menu of the tv. however it is not worth paying someone to calibrate your set unless you are dead set on keeping it

[Ray O. Blu]

There is no industry standard for determining contrast ratios. One manufacturer's claim of 30,000:1 might not be tested with the same criteria as another manufacturer's 8,000:1 and actually be inferior in quality.

[Chevypower]

I will repost my response in the thread regarding Vizio TVs. I think it will help give you a 'real world' scenario. I will edit it so it's only relevant to contrast.

Ok so we run an AV rental store. We just got in the Vizio 1080p 120hz 47'' in stock, seeing how often people rent on price and size only. We already have a few Sonys. I took it home to try it out, and the first Blu-ray we watched was Kung Fu Panda. ............
The uneven backlighting was really bad..... Other than that, it was ok. Then I tried Prison Break on blu-ray. The skin tones looked very fake, jitters were still there, the blacks were awful and the whites were washed out. It was Season 1, and the strong key lighting inside the prison just washed out everything it was hitting, like peoples hair, and the sides of their heads. My wife described it as "looking like a home video." It was so bad, I took it back to our store at 11pm, and grabbed the Sony 46'' V4100. Despite the Sony only being 60Hz, it was like heaven! It didn't look like a home video, it looked like that professional movie quality on Blu-ray that we all love. The motion blur was a little more present, but wasn't nearly as bad overall as watching the Vizio. It was nice. So Vizio can have 240Hz on their spec sheets all they want, but their panels, picture processing, contrast, natural tones will not be up to the standard of Sony and Samsung. I only wish that our Sony V-series was a W-series or higher. But the refresh rate on the Sony is only a minor thing in comparison.

[Rob J in WNY]

It's easy for many people to overlook "black detail" when it comes to a TV picture. Modern, "fixed pixel" displays (like today's LCD and Plasma TVs), are capable of displaying quite a bit of detail - perhaps far more than previously realized by the new HDTV owner.

Greater contrast ratio helps to bring out such detail, and although some would say that they don't notice the difference, many will be astounded at the increased image detail dsiplayed on a calibrated HDTV. On other words, instead of a solid dark area on the screen, there will details within the dark area visible. A good example is black clothing in semi-dark movie scenes. A good quality, calibrated TV will often show subtle details in the closthing, such as hems and loose folds. It may never have been an important consideration as before, but when you see it, you will be amazed. Overbearing blacks are a phenomenon often called "crushing blacks" in calibration lingo. You want to avoid crushing blacks and crushing whites, as these will reduce image detail which is present, but not visible because of incorrect picture settings.

Unfortunately, as brett day said, most TVs for sale at a store are going to be displayed with their most "vivid" or "dynamic" picture settings - overly bright, oversaturated color and high-than-normal sharpness settings. Both white and black detail will be lost. A nicely calibrated set won't be awash in super-intense color, and all those little, subtle details will come out to play, as long as they're present in the source material (Blu-ray or DVD).

[J6P]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Dynamic contrast ratio is all marketing hype designed to entice the masses who think bigger numbers mean....better. Read these two articles linked below:

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

ANSI/Native Contrast ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that are shown in the set AT THE SAME TIME (like white lettering on a black field or a black and white checkerboard). So a native contrast ratio of 20,000:1 means the black is 20,000 times darker than white. This is the TRUE definition of contrast ratio, because you will always be watching a picture with both light and dark areas displayed at the same time.

Dynamic Contrast Ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that the set is capale of displaying INDEPENDENTLY. So, put an all-white picture on the set and measure it, and then send an all black signal to the set (essentially the set is off) and measure that. Naturally you will get much bigger numbers, but for what purpose? Who is ever going to care what an all-white signal looks like versus the set being off? The reason this number is used predominantly in LCDs is because their native contrast ratios are very low (no counting the new LED backlit sets), so they don't look as good on paper (and hence, in person) as sets with higher contrast ratios. Blacks aren't black; they are more of a dark grey due to the backlight bleeding into the dark areas.

So ignore dynamic contrast ratio numbers. They mean nothing.

This is not my understanding of Dynamic Contrast Ratio numbers.

What I understand is that it doesn't have anything to do with how the ratio is measured, but with whether or not processing is applied to the picture to achieve blacker blacks when needed and whiter whites when needed. This is accomplished in many different ways and varies by manufacturer, but it's often done by adjusting the backlight in real-time depending on what is being rendered on screen, or dimming blocks of LEDs in real-time as the newer LCDs do.

[dobyblue]

No, dynamic is measured by the highest white output the set can manage, compared to the darkest it can manage.

The long story short is that dynamic contrast is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

ANSI contrast is the only important figure.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Ray O. Blu

There is no industry standard for determining contrast ratios. One manufacturer's claim of 30,000:1 might not be tested with the same criteria as another manufacturer's 8,000:1 and actually be inferior in quality.

I've read similar articles. Ambient light and the testing environment can have an impact on the numbers. However, this is all pretty much irrelevant when looking at dynamic CR numbers anyway (since they are meaningless). LCDs don't typically publish ANSI CR numbers, so it's not applicable there, either. The only time it would come into play would be with the ANSI CR numbers marketed by the plasma manufacturers. Are the new Panys really 40,000:1 ANSI? I really don't know, but the picture looks damn good. Heck, the D-Nice evaluations of the 6020 and Pro-111 Kuros only measured ANSI CR at ~13K, and we all know how phenomenal those pictures look.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Dynamic contrast ratio is all marketing hype designed to entice the masses who think bigger numbers mean....better. Read these two articles linked below:

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

ANSI/Native Contrast ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that are shown in the set AT THE SAME TIME (like white lettering on a black field or a black and white checkerboard). So a native contrast ratio of 20,000:1 means the black is 20,000 times darker than white. This is the TRUE definition of contrast ratio, because you will always be watching a picture with both light and dark areas displayed at the same time.

Dynamic Contrast Ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that the set is capale of displaying INDEPENDENTLY. So, put an all-white picture on the set and measure it, and then send an all black signal to the set (essentially the set is off) and measure that. Naturally you will get much bigger numbers, but for what purpose? Who is ever going to care what an all-white signal looks like versus the set being off? The reason this number is used predominantly in LCDs is because their native contrast ratios are very low (no counting the new LED backlit sets), so they don't look as good on paper (and hence, in person) as sets with higher contrast ratios. Blacks aren't black; they are more of a dark grey due to the backlight bleeding into the dark areas.

So ignore dynamic contrast ratio numbers. They mean nothing.

Explained perfectly. Great post.

[haugse23]

So after reading all of your posts, what brand of tv should i get and what would be the best contrast ratio? I've heard that you should stick to the 3 s's: Sony, ,Samsung, and Sharp

[BLUCanadian]

Originally Posted by haugse23

So after reading all of your posts, what brand of tv should i get and what would be the best contrast ratio? I've heard that you should stick to the 3 s's: Sony, ,Samsung, and Sharp

If you would like people to give you suggestions on TVs, you should specify your budget, size of TV (or room size/seating distance), and whether you are looking for an LCD or Plasma

also... that sticking to the 3 S's is just plain silly

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by BLUCanadian

If you would like people to give you suggestions on TVs, you should specify your budget, size of TV (or room size/seating distance), and whether you are looking for an LCD or Plasma

also... that sticking to the 3 S's is just plain silly

indeed...and I must P all over that one with my Panny Plasma!

John

[haugse23]

well i'm thinking any size between 42" and 50" and up to about $3000, and im pretty sure i can get a decent tv that size for less than 3k cuz i've seen a few good 42" for less than $1,000. Also there is a lot of debate between plasmas and lcd and I'm still fuzzy on which one to get.

[Johnny Vinyl]

The best thing to do is do some research and look at reviews for both types of TV's. Then go and have a look, but try to avoid places like BB and the like. Go to a high-end dealer. The TV's mounted in their HT rooms are usually properly calibrated.

For what it's worth...I would go with Plasma as the black level is deeper and I find the images much more natural. But that's just me.

John

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by haugse23

So after reading all of your posts, what brand of tv should i get and what would be the best contrast ratio? I've heard that you should stick to the 3 s's: Sony, ,Samsung, and Sharp

Well, if you are simply looking for the 'best contrast ratio', then you've limited yourself to plasma. However, there are many things in addition to CR that make an excellent picture/display. As stated in the above posts, LCDs have generally poor CR compared to other technologies. There are some exceptions, though. The newer LED backlit LCDs have better CR, but suffer from other shortcomings. As for the 3-S's, stay with the first two if going LCD. For plasma, look at Pioneer and Panasonic. Personally, for your price range, I wouldn't go for anything less than THE best display currently out there, and that's the Pioneer Kuro.

Read through the following thread for more suggestions. You'll see what the general consensus is around here regarding displays. Try to ignore the "troll" posts that offer nothing but display-bashing with no data/facts to back-up their opinions.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=90690

I summed-up the major differences between LCD and plasma in this post.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=67

As others have said, do your own research and ask questions here if you have any. Good luck with your decision!