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Old 12-04-2017, 07:37 PM   #81
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Originally Posted by omarchafa View Post
Yeah, I have no doubt that your setup sounds great. But can your tower speakers dig deep and pound hard without the need of a subwoofer?
Yes, it sure can. And that's WITH bass and treble at their detent 12:00 positions.

But you mentioned "cheap stereo receivers" as all that's being available today; it's simply not true. You just gotta shop around. I know there is an Integra receiver that's the counterpart of one of the Onkyos, and Onkyo itself now has multiple stereo models to choose from. And, I know Outlaw did a "retro-esque"-looking stereo receiver a few years back that was highly regarded.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:44 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Yes, it sure can. And that's WITH bass and treble at their detent 12:00 positions.

But you mentioned "cheap stereo receivers" as all that's being available today; it's simply not true. You just gotta shop around. I know there is an Integra receiver that's the counterpart of one of the Onkyos, and Onkyo itself now has multiple stereo models to choose from. And, I know Outlaw did a "retro-esque"-looking stereo receiver a few years back that was highly regarded.
Sheesh my speakers at neutral can barely produce any bass at all. What speaker brands and model are you running?
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:25 AM   #83
Scarriere Scarriere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imjeffbatl View Post
Greetings everyone!

[Show spoiler]I'm also working on (basically) a 4K upgrade to my home theater room, and am on the fence for AVR's. Over the years I've had practically every brand, so I'm not really set on anything.

I'm doing a 7.2.4 system, so the ones that jumped out are the Marantz SR8012, and the Integra DRX-R1.1 (when it ever comes out). I considered the Anthem MRX-1120 until I realized that I wouldn't be able to hook my old laserdisc player to it (yes, I actually have one that still works and a bunch of titles that haven't made it to blu-ray yet!).

The Integra has gotten some rave reviews, and the Marantz is so new, there's no technical review on it yet, other than places regurgitating the specification sheet.

I'm open to suggestions for anything that the price range for these three units. Does anyone out there have any experience with these two models, or have anything to offer that might help me come to a decision?

The vendor I'm dealing with seems to be pushing the Marantz, and it's just enough that I'm wary that they're just trying to sell me what they have, rather than waiting for what might be the better unit (since the .1 revision of the Integra hasn't hit the streets yet).

I'm technically literate, so can understand the meaning of the technical tests, so I'll likely wait until a neutral party puts the Marantz through its paces (that's already happened for the Integra) unless one of you "illuminati" makes a compelling argument. It's so hard to wait for new toys!

"Help me Obi-Wan - You're my only hope."
I don't have any experience with Marantz, but do know that they're well regarded.
That SR 8012 that you're looking at seems very kick ass. I'm sure that when the eventual reviews come out, they'll back that.
If I were looking, that would be 1 of 2 that I'd audition. The other being the Anthem 1120.
Happy hunting!
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:51 AM   #84
omarchafa omarchafa is offline
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Originally Posted by Scarriere View Post
I don't have any experience with Marantz, but do know that they're well regarded.
That SR 8012 that you're looking at seems very kick ass. I'm sure that when the eventual reviews come out, they'll back that.
If I were looking, that would be 1 of 2 that I'd audition. The other being the Anthem 1120.
Happy hunting!
Yes, I just read from user's experiences that the Marantz SR 8012 really pounds hard and loud for their setups.

Check out what users from the AVS forum say about it:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...-s-thread.html

Looks like it might dethroned the Anthem 1120 in performance, but you really can't go wrong with either one.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:15 PM   #85
AnalogAperture AnalogAperture is offline
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Hey, everyone's experiences are different; I would swear by this company's gear, though in recent years I've been reading nightmare stories concerning the products' quality (not sure if their two-channel stuff suffers from quality control; I love their stereo gear, as well)...all I can report is that my 605 is STILL running strong (and powering monster Polk RTi12s as main channels just fine, to boot).
I do enjoy their older stereo amp's myself.

I have a friend that has a HITB Onkyo Receiver and it does sound good!
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:23 PM   #86
AnalogAperture AnalogAperture is offline
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Originally Posted by ZoetMB View Post
My Pioneer Elite is fine for video, but completely sucks for analog or digital music. It really kills the music. I had to put back my old preamp and power amp for 2-channel listening of LP's and CD's and install an amp switch for the Left and Right fronts.
May I ask what Piioneer Elite do you own?

I have the VSX-92TXH and I love how music sounds on it. Analog and Digital.

Just curious, do you have one of the newer one's?


Quote:
Originally Posted by omarchafa View Post
From my experience, Pioneers are the worst when it comes to music.

I disagree, I know I've been talking Elite's here for a moment, but I am very happy with mine, in Analog and Digital audio the quality is gorgeous if you ask me.

I do own a tube amp which I would say sounds better but considering that the Elite is a Home Theater receiver I think music sounds great and does justice.

Could it be paired with speakers that don't sound good?



I'm just curious because I haven't had any hiccups and have been impressed with the Elite series, though again, I have an old model from 2012 so that may be a factor in quality as I'd mentioned before once they got Acquired, I don't think they kept the same Quality Control they used to.

Last edited by AnalogAperture; 12-05-2017 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:36 PM   #87
ZoetMB ZoetMB is offline
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Originally Posted by analogaperture View Post
may i ask what piioneer elite do you own?
sc-55
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:16 AM   #88
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Originally Posted by omarchafa View Post
Sheesh my speakers at neutral can barely produce any bass at all. What speaker brands and model are you running?
I'm running Infinity Primus P363 towers, and the receiver is an Onkyo TX-8555, a powerhouse of a stereo amp that pumps out 100 watts per channel (it's since been discontinued).
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:48 AM   #89
omarchafa omarchafa is offline
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I'm running Infinity Primus P363 towers, and the receiver is an Onkyo TX-8555, a powerhouse of a stereo amp that pumps out 100 watts per channel (it's since been discontinued).
Wow, pretty cheap price for some good speakers. It's probably one of those set of speakers that are too good for the price I guess. 100 watts is plenty for small tower speakers. As for me I wouldn't settle with any tower speakers

My goal is to own these one day:



I almost got them, but decided to spend my money on something else instead. I do own bookshelf version of those speakers which produces the same sound, but not on the low end.



So I have those speakers hooked up to my Anthem MRX 510, and they truly sound divine, the best I ever had. The only thing that lacks is the sub bass, but for these tiny bookshelf speakers they do dig deeper than it looks.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:56 PM   #90
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Originally Posted by omarchafa View Post
Wow, pretty cheap price for some good speakers. It's probably one of those set of speakers that are too good for the price I guess.
Here's another home theater/hi-fi gangland myth that needs to go the way of the Do-Do Bird, thinking less weight on a turntable stylus is actually BETTER for vinyl tracking and forcing people to believe they should always run their home theater speaker array as LARGE when there's a sub in the mix...

It's not always the most expensive of anything that yields admirable performance, and the Infinity's are proof of that -- this series of speaker (the Primus line) has been renowned in audio circles for boasting well above-the-price level performance that can give more expensive speakers a run for their money. I jumped on a KILLER deal at a local Fry's when these went on sale (they pretty much gave them away) and they work absolutely fine in my two-channel system.

Quote:
100 watts is plenty for small tower speakers.
It's not only about that (and the Primus 363s aren't that "small") -- it's about what a loudspeaker can handle based on the manufacturer's specs, and the Onkyo I'm pushing the 363s with are an ideal match for them, power-wise.

Important to note: It's not really a matter of an amp "not being able to push all that juice" to a loudspeaker, it's more a matter of an amp "not being able to HANDLE" a certain loudspeaker's ohm or sensitivity loading.

Quote:
As for me I wouldn't settle with any tower speakers


Quote:
My goal is to own these one day:



I almost got them, but decided to spend my money on something else instead. I do own bookshelf version of those speakers which produces the same sound, but not on the low end.



So I have those speakers hooked up to my Anthem MRX 510, and they truly sound divine, the best I ever had. The only thing that lacks is the sub bass, but for these tiny bookshelf speakers they do dig deeper than it looks.
No bookshelf or tower can dig as deep as a subwoofer; it's simple physics, for the most part (the woofers just can't push as much air) -- the only time I found this wasn't so true was when I used to run a mobile DJ business, and the big, boxy "Becker" brand speakers I was using had 15-inch woofers in each, and the system actually didn't require a sub...
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:22 AM   #91
omarchafa omarchafa is offline
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You are also forgetting that room size greatly affects the bass extension and output on any subwoofer or speakers. On a small room, I heard bookshelf speakers sound great on the low end while on larger rooms not at all. My old flagship Aiwa bookshelfs speakers are able to do that without the need of a subwoofer that gets great bass extension on my small room. It's also thanks to the dual front firing bass ports and the deep 14" cabinet that helps pump insane amount of air out to really dig deep.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:19 PM   #92
IntelliVolume IntelliVolume is offline
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Well, of course room size has to do with how well smaller or lager speakers can pressurize a space; my main point was that, for the most part, a sub can do what most full-range speakers can't, no matter how large they are.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:14 PM   #93
stevo stevo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omarchafa View Post
Wow, pretty cheap price for some good speakers. It's probably one of those set of speakers that are too good for the price I guess. 100 watts is plenty for small tower speakers. As for me I wouldn't settle with any tower speakers

My goal is to own these one day:



I almost got them, but decided to spend my money on something else instead. I do own bookshelf version of those speakers which produces the same sound, but not on the low end.



So I have those speakers hooked up to my Anthem MRX 510, and they truly sound divine, the best I ever had. The only thing that lacks is the sub bass, but for these tiny bookshelf speakers they do dig deeper than it looks.
Excellent speakers, I have the Studio 100 v5s, but I almost went with Studio 20 v5s all around with my sub 12s .... Nice choice with the Anthem...
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:16 AM   #94
Canuck31 Canuck31 is offline
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Right now I'm picking Yamaha as the best. If I had the money I'd splurge on their RX-A770 but for what I can afford I have the RX-V481. For now it does the job very well. Excellent sound quality.
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Old 12-26-2017, 04:59 PM   #95
omarchafa omarchafa is offline
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Excellent speakers, I have the Studio 100 v5s, but I almost went with Studio 20 v5s all around with my sub 12s .... Nice choice with the Anthem...
Yeah, I end up buying the Paradigm Signature S2 V3 bookshelf speakers over the Studio 100 V5 in case you were wondering, and boy did I regret it. They sounded way too neutral and flat for my taste, and the midrange didn't sound as clear as my Studio's 10 V5, even my mom said the Studios sounded better than the Signatures. I ran the Signatures on the same Anthem receiver and setup, always having the treble at +0 dB with +4 dB on the bass, and they didn't outperformed the Studios under the same conditions. Maybe the ARC would have made them sound better?

In any case I end up selling the Signatures, and now I'm looking for the Studios 100 V5 to buy one day.
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Old 12-27-2017, 06:07 PM   #96
sa5150 sa5150 is offline
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We were gone for the Holidays and my brother-in law had a almost brand new Denon 3803 not being used , He sold it to me for $125 . I would think a good deal for what seems to be a pretty nice receiver . I know it's missing hdmi ...So a few questions if anyone can help . First optical or digital coaxial via tv,cable box,bluray player etc... ? Now this does not have DTS HD Master . Can my bluray player be enough to decode properly ?

Everyone at the Hoffman sight talks about pre-emphases on older cds , There making it sound as if I never have heard cds the right way in over 30 years . I know a pc is not going to cut it but a simple question I have been asking no one seems to want to answer . Can a bluray player do what ever pre-emphases is ? I will be looking into a SACD ultra bluray player soon and should it have digital coaxial or optical on the back ??

Last edited by sa5150; 12-29-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:12 PM   #97
Pondosinatra Pondosinatra is offline
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Originally Posted by ZoetMB View Post
My Pioneer Elite is fine for video, but completely sucks for analog or digital music. It really kills the music. I had to put back my old preamp and power amp for 2-channel listening of LP's and CD's and install an amp switch for the Left and Right fronts.
I'd second that (regarding their receivers).

I do enjoy their Elite stereo amp/sacd player though.
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:50 PM   #98
JurassicBD JurassicBD is offline
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Originally Posted by Mantis128 View Post
When it comes to audio receivers which company usually produces the best?
Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread, to see what's already been said, but the answer to your question is extremely subjective, based on your personal criteria for use. I've owned Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony and a few others. For the first three in that list, I've owned some of their flagship line, specifically. And, I've had experiences with a lot of others, including a number of boutique labels, which friends and former colleagues in the home theater industry swear by.

During the DVD era, I would have said Denon was the overall top dog at almost any price point. But Denon isn't the same company they were then. Denon also now makes Marantz, which I'm told still has a warmer sound than Denon's traditionally darker nature, but I've never compared two models I felt similar enough in design to warrant an accurate comparison between the two. I do still like Denon/Marantz's upper end line, which I also still own.

Yamaha is my personal favorite. They're what I'm currently using in our HT, even though I think that Denon/Marantz's higher end units with Audyssey XP32 has the capability of edging out Yamaha with movie tracks, as YPAO isn't nearly as developed as Audyssey, which does nothing but EQ. But Yamaha is the undisputed champion in terms of musicality. Yamaha has put into music DSPs, what Audyssey has put into room acoustics. Nobody else even comes close. And when I bought my last AVR, at the time they also clearly topped the rest of the field in terms in engineering and versatility. That may have changed in the last few years. But at the time, they were so far ahead of the pack in those terms, it made Marantz, Denon, and others in the same price range seem like they weren't even trying. Even their remote was of much better design and quality. The list of pros and cons between Yamaha and Denon/Marantz just heavily favored Yamaha. But, if only one feature in that list is critical to your needs, the Denon/Marantz might be better for you.

That said, when picking an AVR, many believe there's something to be said for matching the AVR with the speaker design being paired with it. I have what are considered "dark" speakers. They have a more neutral tonality. Denon was always said to have a dark sound itself, and thus not as good a mate with dark speakers. I didn't find that to be remotely true of the pairing. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the tonal differences afforded by pairing are trivial at most, and not worth being a key consideration in selecting an AVR. That said, a bright AVR, like Sony is known for, I would probably avoid with brighter sounding speakers, like horns are known to be. But, then, I'd probably avoid any audio component made by Sony.

I've personally have steered clear of processors from boutique brands for reliability reasons (you don't see too many boutique integrated AVRs). You pay more for a machine that has more tender loving care and is made in the USA. But, the top of the line units from bigger brands tend to be better refined, better tested, and better supported. Made in the USA too often means, we had to cut corners due to higher manufacturing costs to make sure the price wasn't too far out of reach. And, if you don't live near the factory, warranty coverage isn't always any better, keeping in mind that most warranty issue will surface within the first year of use, if not the first month. A colleague and friend has always loved Anthem, even though I think he's had to send every Anthem processor he's ever bought in for repair or upgrade at least once per year and not had use of his HT during that time.

I'm not knocking boutique. I think there's some outstanding quality there. I always prefer boutique for amplifiers, as that's not a technology that's rapidly evolving/changing. Amplifiers don't require updating the firmware. And because none of the majors seem inclined to pursue lower-level products in this category, boutique is usually where your best bang for your buck is found too.
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